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i mean both have an all powerful emperor.... God-Emperor and Sigmar

both have Chaos as the main enemy, and Chaos Gods

both have the most dominating religion being the worship of their emperor..

is there anything i missed?

That is probably a gross simplification, to the point of comparing the Mona Lisa to an 8-bit character sprite.

I believe the settings are quite different in their tone, sufficiently so that any overarching parallels mostly serve as jumping points for the nitty-gritty detail differences.

That said, I'm less familiar with Fantasy & Age of Sigmar lore, so its possible that they have bridged more towards a parallel tone with swords, bows and magic rather than power blades, sci-fi guns and psychic power.

40k is about the slow crumble of humanity whereas AoS is about humanity taking back everything they have lost to Chaos. They are quite different in tone.

The Chaos Gods and their Daemons are the same, and that's about it. Even old Fantasy had grown pretty far from 40k before the reboot; Humanity was far from united, the High Elves liked the Empire better than the Dark Elves and actually talked to other people now and again, and the lurking horror in the middle of the Empire was much, much more active and present in the game (Skaven, Beastmen) than the vague 'mutant' and 'heretic' 40k Imperium likes to talk about.

I suppose since they killed off the pantheons in AoS that's one more similarity with 40k, there were a lot of gods that weren't the Chaos Gods in the original source material and they've all been killed off unless they've got models on the table specifically dedicated to their existence.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
The Chaos Gods and their Daemons are the same, and that's about it. Even old Fantasy had grown pretty far from 40k before the reboot; Humanity was far from united, the High Elves liked the Empire better than the Dark Elves and actually talked to other people now and again, and the lurking horror in the middle of the Empire was much, much more active and present in the game (Skaven, Beastmen) than the vague 'mutant' and 'heretic' 40k Imperium likes to talk about.

I suppose since they killed off the pantheons in AoS that's one more similarity with 40k, there were a lot of gods that weren't the Chaos Gods in the original source material and they've all been killed off unless they've got models on the table specifically dedicated to their existence.

so humans in fantasy/AOS are much more tolerant of other races than 40k humans?

Sigmar was a god in Fantasy, the patron saint of the Empire, which was ruled by Emperor Karl Franz (the number after which changed, I think, across a few editions).

Warhammer Fantasy RPG was a traditional RPG. You could have a party of humans, elves, dwarves and halflings and, though there were some rules between Elves and Dwarves that reflected some animosity between the two races (a la Lord of the Rings), no one really thought it odd.

LightKing wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
The Chaos Gods and their Daemons are the same, and that's about it. Even old Fantasy had grown pretty far from 40k before the reboot; Humanity was far from united, the High Elves liked the Empire better than the Dark Elves and actually talked to other people now and again, and the lurking horror in the middle of the Empire was much, much more active and present in the game (Skaven, Beastmen) than the vague 'mutant' and 'heretic' 40k Imperium likes to talk about.

I suppose since they killed off the pantheons in AoS that's one more similarity with 40k, there were a lot of gods that weren't the Chaos Gods in the original source material and they've all been killed off unless they've got models on the table specifically dedicated to their existence.

so humans in fantasy/AOS are much more tolerant of other races than 40k humans?

The thing is, apart from dwarves, high elves and a few others, every other race is trying to kill the humans.

 Unusual Suspect wrote:
That is probably a gross simplification, to the point of comparing the Mona Lisa to an 8-bit character sprite.

Question is, which one's the Mona Lisa and which one's the 8-bit sprite?

Engrenages wrote:


The thing is, apart from dwarves, high elves and a few others, every other race is trying to kill the humans.

Very true. However, in 40k the Dwarves are dead, the High Elves sometimes pretend to be allies but only to manipulate humanity into bringing ruination upon themselves rather than the Elves. Oh, and sometimes humanity will nuke its own innocent citizens from orbit due to sheer ignorance and fear. There are no good guys in 40k.

In 40k, I think the only people not actively trying to wipe out the Imperium are the Tau, and that's primarily just because they're more insidious than that. Theirs is a cultural invasion first and foremost, backed up by strength of arms when necessary.

The main difference, however, is the tone.

40k is about a dominant human empire approaching the end-point of a slow, inexorable decline, experiencing a 'death by a thousand cuts' from myriad eldritch horrors (from the imperial perspective at the very least, other races have much different world-views).

I'll let someone else summarise AoS as I never really knew a great deal about Fantasy before it was stuck in the blender and sprinkled with Astartes-lite...

I think TV-tropes is the best source to look at the tematic differences.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/TabletopGame/Warhammer40000
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/TabletopGame/WarhammerAgeOfSigmar
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/TabletopGame/Warhammer

One thing I notice is that old fantasy was a lot more similar to 40k in style and tone and themes. AoS has turned into more "regular heroic fantasy" and less of the things that traditionally made 40k and whfb stand out. Thematic stuff that I miss with the change to AoS:
* Moral grey scales. Everyone is a bad guy, the "good guys" are a fascist empire that doesn't really want a good life for it's citicens. A bit like GoT ;-)
* Medieval Dark Ages (in space) where superstition and sickness prevails and general life is miserable.
* Contrast between epic heroes and the miserable general people. If your warlord in guilded armor stands next to a limp guy armed with a rat tied to a stick, you get a better contrast to show off how exceptional the warlord is. Compare to when he stands next to a dozen other guys (always guys...) in guilded armor wielding weapons descibed in superlatives.
* Pointless heroic sacrifice. If you die honourably, you might slow down the threats that are slightly worse than your fascist empire a little bit, so you and your beloved ones can continue their painful meaningless existence for yet a few years.

 Ynneadwraith wrote:

 Unusual Suspect wrote:
That is probably a gross simplification, to the point of comparing the Mona Lisa to an 8-bit character sprite.

Question is, which one's the Mona Lisa and which one's the 8-bit sprite?

Heh, I worded that poorly. I meant that a lot of detail is lost when comparing the two, not that one is near-infinitely more detailed than the other.

Apart from the common theme of Chaos? Not much at all. And even Chaos has plenty of differences in both settings.
Also, Sigmar in Fantasy is a former emperor. The Empire normally does not worship its emperor. Humans in Fantasy worship a large variety of different gods, of which Sigmar is just one (and not even the most important).

LightKing wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
The Chaos Gods and their Daemons are the same, and that's about it. Even old Fantasy had grown pretty far from 40k before the reboot; Humanity was far from united, the High Elves liked the Empire better than the Dark Elves and actually talked to other people now and again, and the lurking horror in the middle of the Empire was much, much more active and present in the game (Skaven, Beastmen) than the vague 'mutant' and 'heretic' 40k Imperium likes to talk about.

I suppose since they killed off the pantheons in AoS that's one more similarity with 40k, there were a lot of gods that weren't the Chaos Gods in the original source material and they've all been killed off unless they've got models on the table specifically dedicated to their existence.

so humans in fantasy/AOS are much more tolerant of other races than 40k humans?

Yes. Humans in Fantasy are huge friends with the Dwarves, and get along with the (High) Elves really well too. The Dwarves and Humans have been staunch allies ever since Sigmar once saved the Dwarven king's life. And they have a huge debt to the High Elves ever since those decided to teach the Humans magic.
Apart from Elves and Dwarves, Humans also get along well with Halflings and Ogres, both of which can be found living in Human communities.
Of course, there is also a lot of xenophobia and racism everywhere, but on a general level, the races get along well.

Arn't there Beastmen in both settings?

LightKing wrote:
Arn't there Beastmen in both settings?

Yes, but in WHFB/AoS they have an army book and models, in 40k they're occasionally given a shout-out in the background and don't get any spotlight whatsoever.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

LightKing wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
The Chaos Gods and their Daemons are the same, and that's about it. Even old Fantasy had grown pretty far from 40k before the reboot; Humanity was far from united, the High Elves liked the Empire better than the Dark Elves and actually talked to other people now and again, and the lurking horror in the middle of the Empire was much, much more active and present in the game (Skaven, Beastmen) than the vague 'mutant' and 'heretic' 40k Imperium likes to talk about.

I suppose since they killed off the pantheons in AoS that's one more similarity with 40k, there were a lot of gods that weren't the Chaos Gods in the original source material and they've all been killed off unless they've got models on the table specifically dedicated to their existence.

so humans in fantasy/AOS are much more tolerant of other races than 40k humans?

In AoS absolutely, everything's been repainted to be shiny/happy/friendly. WHFB was somewhere in between; Dwarves and the Empire got along rather well (Sigmar made that alliance happen in the distant past), and High Elves made some pretty major inroads at one point or another (the Empire's wizard colleges were founded by High Elves in some editions), but if you got out into the sticks they were capable of being just as nasty/xenophobic. The elves (High Elves, at least) are also a lot friendlier than they are in 40k, they're happy to trade with humans and teach them magic, while it's debatable whether their spacefaring counterparts consider humans a sentient species at all.

Do the Eldar really hate humans?

LightKing wrote:
Arn't there Beastmen in both settings?

There's a lot of things that exist in both settings at least cosmetically, but if you look deeper, they're handled very differently. In Warhammer, Beastmen were both the boogeymen in the forest and the symptom of the Empire's internal corruption; warherds skulked around the darkest tracts of woods, emerging to raid, pillage, and tear down all signs of civilization. At the same time, they would sometimes take in mutants, and it was a sorta-common - if dangerous - practice for those who'd found themselves the parents of a brand new baby with tentacles for arms or something similar to leave the infant out at the edge of the trees for the Beastmen to take, rather than hand it over to the authorities. People who did that sometimes found Junior leading a warband home years later to meet dear old Mom and Dad.

Whoops, sorry, I meant 'eat'. To eat dear old Mom and Dad.

There were also different kinds of Beastmen, depending on what part of the world they were found in. The classic goat-headed Beastman that they had models for was the sort that lived in the Old World and Norsca, but there were lizardy Beastmen in Naggaroth, tiger-headed Beastmen in Ind (that were supposedly friendlier to the locals!), and so on and so forth. They didn't usually end up on the top of the Chaos pecking order, typically being used as disposable rabble for the major incursions, but every now and then one would rise to prominence and do some serious damage. They also had a shadow war going on between them and the Wood Elves - quick guerilla ambushes and nasty, short-lived battles under the trees far from human eyes...

In 40k, the Beastmen are pretty much relegated to the background now, but they're a strain of 'abhuman' - which is to say, a tolerated subspecies of humanity. They're right on the fringes of abhuman, though, likely to be classified as true mutants in the near future, and thus lose what rights they have and either be purged or relegated to a life of dangerous industrial toil. Sometimes they get used as disposable shock troops for the Imperial Guard, where they fight desperately to atone for the sin of being born Beastmen.

In Age of Sigmar, I think they're pretty much just Chaos mooks there to get slaughtered by the Sigmarines

LightKing wrote:
Do the Eldar really hate humans?

Some do, I suppose. Some think humans are all right, if destructive. Most don't really give a crap.

They would, however, sacrifice an entire human world to save the lives of a handful of Eldar. It's less hatred and more 'we're better than you, shut up and deal'. Which, as you can imagine, goes over great with humanity...still, the Eldar are one of the few alien factions that sometimes joins forces with the Imperium. Sometimes.

Briefly.

LightKing wrote:
Do the Eldar really hate humans?

Hate isn't the right term really.

They view humans in a similar way to how we view chimpanzees. Relatively smart, as animals go, but it's often entertaining to see their limited tool use and watch them struggle to work out puzzles that are blatantly obvious to you.

From that base outlook, the various factions differ markedly.

The Craftworld Eldar will occasionally work with humans, but only really to further their own needs. The majority see humans as either vermin or beasts of burden (useful for certain tasks, like absorbing that Ork Waaagh over there that's headed towards a Craftworld'. Some may grow to respect certain humans, but sort of in the same way that we're impressed by Nim Chimpsky (brilliant name btw...): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nim_Chimpsky

The Dark Eldar see humans as livestock and entertainment. Their raiding parties are how they get their slaves to torture and prolong their lives. Plus, killing, torturing and pillaging the slow, lumbering mon'keigh is fun

The Harlequins are probably the most Reasonable Marines of all the Eldar (although 'reasonable' in the context of inter-species relations in the 40k universe is an interesting concept). They will work with select humans who share their fight against Chaos, and may even share their knowledge with them. However, they're a definite minority in the eldar population, although they hold significant political sway.

 Bottle wrote:
40k is about the slow crumble of humanity whereas AoS is about humanity taking back everything they have lost to Chaos. They are quite different in tone.

One difference though: In 40k it's actually possible for one side to lose. In AOS it's been designed so that ultimate victory is impossible for both.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Yes. Humans in Fantasy are huge friends with the Dwarves, and get along with the (High) Elves really well too. The Dwarves and Humans have been staunch allies ever since Sigmar once saved the Dwarven king's life. And they have a huge debt to the High Elves ever since those decided to teach the Humans magic.
Apart from Elves and Dwarves, Humans also get along well with Halflings and Ogres, both of which can be found living in Human communities.
Of course, there is also a lot of xenophobia and racism everywhere, but on a general level, the races get along well.

Empire at best tolerated elves. Most of empire didn't really know elves even exist.

In 40k IOM also can tolerate eldar.

Not that much difference. In both cases humans are willing to work in extreme situation. Other times it's kill elves on sight. And in both average joe isn't even aware elves exists,

tneva82 wrote:

 Bottle wrote:
40k is about the slow crumble of humanity whereas AoS is about humanity taking back everything they have lost to Chaos. They are quite different in tone.

One difference though: In 40k it's actually possible for one side to lose. In AOS it's been designed so that ultimate victory is impossible for both.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Yes. Humans in Fantasy are huge friends with the Dwarves, and get along with the (High) Elves really well too. The Dwarves and Humans have been staunch allies ever since Sigmar once saved the Dwarven king's life. And they have a huge debt to the High Elves ever since those decided to teach the Humans magic.
Apart from Elves and Dwarves, Humans also get along well with Halflings and Ogres, both of which can be found living in Human communities.
Of course, there is also a lot of xenophobia and racism everywhere, but on a general level, the races get along well.

Empire at best tolerated elves. Most of empire didn't really know elves even exist.
In 40k IOM also can tolerate eldar.

Not that much difference. In both cases humans are willing to work in extreme situation. Other times it's kill elves on sight. And in both average joe isn't even aware elves exists,

Tolerated?
The Empire is massively indebted to the High Elves and regularly fights alongside them. The Elves have official political representation in the Empire. Elven traders frequently visit Empire ports and are far from being an uncommon sight in such cities and in Altdorf. Hell, there is whole communities of Elves living in Empire cities. The province of Nordland only exists because it is tolerated by Elves. All but the most isolated, backwards Stirland peasants will be aware of the existance of Elves. But then again, Stirlanders drink hot beer, so they are weird.
Certainly, peasants in the Empire have a lot of xenophobia and superstition towards Elves, but that attitude does not extend to the ruling classes. It is far more than just being tolerated. The Empire respects and actively tries to cooperate with the Elves, and in some cases Elves are even an active part of the Empire.

Also, the Empire in Fantasy only rarely have tried to fight Elves, and if they do it is almost always against Dark Elf raiding parties (and it always ends badly). Afaik, they only tried to fight the Wood Elves once (by accident, when they strayed into their forest and were massacred) and they have never had conflict with the High Elves.

tneva82 wrote:


In 40k IOM also can tolerate eldar.

Yeah, 'tolerate' is probably a bit strong. The most they do is a sort of mutually-assured destruction dealio, while very rarely fighting alongside each other against Chaos or 'nids or suchlike. There's a fair amount of fluff stating that after the majority of these alliances, the Eldar either turn around and slaughter their allies, or simply abandon them to the enemy once their objectives have been accomplished.

'Suffer not the xeno to live' is the party line, and upheld by pretty much all but radical inquisitors.

There are plenty of examples in the fluff of the IoM fighting alongside the Eldar, but a lot of the time it's from authors that aren't necessarily au fait with the concept that the Eldar aren't really 'High Elves, in spaaace'.

Its the Grimdark.

No seriously, its the Grimdark nature of 40K vs. the old Warhammer Fantasy's "we've got troubles, but we'll get along to survive).

Part of it is the social relationships forged by the Mythic Characters of each series.

Sigmar Heldenhammer is, by comparison to a lot of 40K folk, a pretty descent guy. He's a consensus builder trying to the do the best he can to mediate disputes to insure the survival of those who have come together with him. I mean hell, the Battle of Blackfire pass where the united 12 tribes of men And their Dwarf Buddies via Kurgan Ironbeard against overwhelming odds already shows that sentiment runs strong in Heldenhammer. Even after he ascended into Godhood in Age of Sigmar, Sigmar was still trying to corral all the non-Chaos Powers into working together...

Compare that to the latest Version of the Emperor in 40K....... The Emperor - as currently written - has an ironic god-complex. He spent Eons living Amongst Humanity, but not as Part of Humanity. He went from being just some figure to worship (3rd edition) to a arrogant, cruel, conniving, SoB (and no I don't mean the Sisters ). And his Xenos policy can be summed up as "Crush them."

That's a very small comparison between the worlds, but one that can be made again and again.

With exceptions, 40K people/entities seem a lot more haughty and self-assured about their positions and beliefs.

Old Fantasy people had a much stronger reason to work together (perhaps because Chaos usually came as unified force to destroy all their lands) and in general seem a lot more Reasonable than their 40K counterparts.