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After lots of thinking over and having a look at the models I'm leaning towards starting Militarum Tempestus.
The models just look way too good!

Is the Start Collecting! Box worth the buck? (Do I get good value?)
And how about formations? Is the Hellrain formation fun/viable?

Also how would I expand the army from the start collecting box?

Any tips regarding miltitarum Tempestus would be great!

(Ps. I kind of want to go for a small size d elite group type)

I adore scions, I am painting a good bunch of them currently.

They are like more difficult Dark Eldars, you can use them alone either in low point games (1250 and below) unless you do not face cheese and/or you are experienced.

On the flip side, you are Empire so you can always cover your bases with allies. The Emperor protects etc

I hate the commissars, they should be redone, but for the rest AFAIK the box is good. If you use the hellrain brigade, even the commissar is "useful" but you need to protect it (I do not use it but I heard of people using flyers and "storing" the commy there.

Search in the tactics of dakka, more than few discussions about MT are a goldmine.

Definitely get the Start Collecting box. The value is amazing and you'll use most of what's in there.

To expand from the Start Collecting box I'd get another Start Collecting box . But seriously, the value is too good and you'll need a solid infantry core.

It's how I started, except I resold the Tauroxes and put the money towards some Valkyries because I think they're just a little more useful, but some people like the Tauroxes so that's your call.

The formations are great and definitely worth building your army towards. Check out the 1d4chan Tactics page (https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Militarum_Tempestus(7E)) for some good information on how to build your army, discussion on the forums is also great because you can find many different players' views.

The Start Collecting! Militarum Tempestus box is less so a starting point and more like the entire product line in one SKU (for a discount). You will use everything except for the commissar (unless you use the collections formation which is quite nice) and even ignoring Old Man Blammer the box gives you a nice discount on the ever useful Taurox and Scions.

As to how to build them or any tips... I like the command squad to have 4x plasma guns (they can issue orders to themselves to get rerolls in shooting) while I like giving the regular scions 2x melta guns. I tend to always deepstrike them and like to have Inquisition with me for servo skulls to reduce deep strike scatter. Tauroxes are great long range shooting and like the auto cannon + missile launcher loadout (they are fast vehicles so they can move full movement and still fire their two weapons at full BS). Personally not sold on the Valkyries as scions can deploy themselves just fine with deepstrike while the dakka a Valkyrie provides is limited. Sadly they cannot take Vendettas or Vultures (to my knowledge).

MT is basically a go big or go home type army where they drop in, try to melt some face, then die horribly in the return fire. Its hard to hold ground with them but its quite reasionable to expect your deep strikers to buy time for your tauroxes to do work and skirt around grabbing objectives. Very MSU focused army and even a victory is going to be a blood bath on your side as they are only T3 with 4+ armor. They are usually used as an ally to other factions and have good synergy with any sort of drop pod space marine army (homing beacons are great for them).

Thanks for the replies guys, I can't wait to start painting them!

I really hate the Commissar model that comes in the set though... any other viable model options you might recommend?

I was also planning to add an Inquistion or if possible (havent looked at the rules) adding Assassins in it...

Overdose wrote:
Thanks for the replies guys, I can't wait to start painting them!

I really hate the Commissar model that comes in the set though... any other viable model options you might recommend?

I was also planning to add an Inquistion or if possible (havent looked at the rules) adding Assassins in it...

be prepared: it will not be pretty. Is not the easiest army.

I just finished 4 assassins myself

For the commissar, why don't you use the models with the coat as a commissar? Is a scion commissar after all..

I'm just picking up my scions again. List will be 1k, two command squads, two ten man squads, all in tauroxs. Basically three get started boxes and an extra taurox. I'm hoping to use the speed to capture objectives, and have some good fire power to boot. Flyers and av14 would be a problem (two tauroxs will have missile launchers) but in 1k could just ignore them. Not going to have a commissar at all, and use a tempestor prime as warlord.

Use the MT models with a different set of rules if you can. 12pts/model for T3/4+ models with S3 attacks makes them incredibly difficult to actually make function; Grenadier Guard veterans or Inquisitorial Henchmen do most of the same things better (and if you've got access to Imperial Armour Elysians have reliable Reserves for their Valkyries on top of that).

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

Overdose wrote:
Thanks for the replies guys, I can't wait to start painting them!

I really hate the Commissar model that comes in the set though... any other viable model options you might recommend?

I was also planning to add an Inquistion or if possible (havent looked at the rules) adding Assassins in it...

be prepared: it will not be pretty. Is not the easiest army.

I just finished 4 assassins myself

For the commissar, why don't you use the models with the coat as a commissar? Is a scion commissar after all..

Brilliant!

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Use the MT models with a different set of rules if you can. 12pts/model for T3/4+ models with S3 attacks makes them incredibly difficult to actually make function; Grenadier Guard veterans or Inquisitorial Henchmen do most of the same things better (and if you've got access to Imperial Armour Elysians have reliable Reserves for their Valkyries on top of that).

Inquisitorial have BS3. It could be not what people want (of course it becomes moot for a unit with flamers).

Better keep the point cost low, though, they just cannot at higher point value unless one uses other imperial units and/or the opponent is not high tier or not a huge swarm.

I wish they had a better order system. I will write an homebrew one of these days


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Solis Luna Astrum wrote:


For the commissar, why don't you use the models with the coat as a commissar? Is a scion commissar after all..

Brilliant!

Can't tell if is sarcasm.. what I do is use the vox on the officer backpack to point out an officer (and to distinguish them from NCO, since both have pistol plus CCW ), and then the one guy with the cloack is painted differently and an inquisitor or commissar in base of the list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JamesY wrote:
I'm just picking up my scions again. List will be 1k, two command squads, two ten man squads, all in tauroxs. Basically three get started boxes and an extra taurox. I'm hoping to use the speed to capture objectives, and have some good fire power to boot. Flyers and av14 would be a problem (two tauroxs will have missile launchers) but in 1k could just ignore them. Not going to have a commissar at all, and use a tempestor prime as warlord.

There is a huge debate about the unit size and the loadout. How do you equip the HQs and Squads?

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Use the MT models with a different set of rules if you can. 12pts/model for T3/4+ models with S3 attacks makes them incredibly difficult to actually make function; Grenadier Guard veterans or Inquisitorial Henchmen do most of the same things better (and if you've got access to Imperial Armour Elysians have reliable Reserves for their Valkyries on top of that).

Inquisitorial have BS3. It could be not what people want (of course it becomes moot for a unit with flamers).

Better keep the point cost low, though, they just cannot at higher point value unless one uses other imperial units and/or the opponent is not high tier or not a huge swarm.

I wish they had a better order system. I will write an homebrew one of these days

It isn't. My old Inquisitorial Stormtroopers have been continuously getting excised more and more thoroughly from the rules. Elysians are a better option for alternate MT than the Inquisition (since they've actually got Orders and BS4 Guardsmen that don't cost a fortune), but they're the one that requires a Forge World book.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Use the MT models with a different set of rules if you can. 12pts/model for T3/4+ models with S3 attacks makes them incredibly difficult to actually make function; Grenadier Guard veterans or Inquisitorial Henchmen do most of the same things better (and if you've got access to Imperial Armour Elysians have reliable Reserves for their Valkyries on top of that).

Inquisitorial have BS3. It could be not what people want (of course it becomes moot for a unit with flamers).

Better keep the point cost low, though, they just cannot at higher point value unless one uses other imperial units and/or the opponent is not high tier or not a huge swarm.

I wish they had a better order system. I will write an homebrew one of these days

It isn't. My old Inquisitorial Stormtroopers have been continuously getting excised more and more thoroughly from the rules. Elysians are a better option for alternate MT than the Inquisition (since they've actually got Orders and BS4 Guardsmen that don't cost a fortune), but they're the one that requires a Forge World book.

IIRC, you cannot have hot-shots as troops with Elysian, am I right? Also, Elysian have not D-99 with carapace troops.
Happy to be wrong, mind it - I am just not that familiar. Not being confrontational.

Edit: to be clear, Elysian intrigue me! tell us more!

@kaiyanwang one command three plasma guns, medic, plasma pistol to counter elites, other three melta, medic and plasma to tackle vehicles. Both tauroxs missile launchers and autocannons for higher strength shots.

Both squads will be ten men with two hot shot volley guns in each, both tauroxs will have hot shot volley guns, one gatling one battle cannon, so they are both intended to tackle meqs. It is far from competitive I know, but it will at least have the flexibility to respond to most things in low point games.

 JamesY wrote:
@kaiyanwang one command three plasma guns, medic, plasma pistol to counter elites, other three melta, medic and plasma to tackle vehicles. Both tauroxs missile launchers and autocannons for higher strength shots.

Both squads will be ten men with two hot shot volley guns in each, both tauroxs will have hot shot volley guns, one gatling one battle cannon, so they are both intended to tackle meqs. It is far from competitive I know, but it will at least have the flexibility to respond to most things in low point games.

Disclaimer: I am an occasional, no competitive player.

I tend too to put volley in big squads. I just keep reading about volleys in command and squads needing plasma, so I was wondering.

I find 3-4 plasmas with L9 orders just much better!

Same tauroxes (but the BC has autocannons)! Probably full missile is the optimal, but I wanted to diversify the models

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

 JamesY wrote:
@kaiyanwang one command three plasma guns, medic, plasma pistol to counter elites, other three melta, medic and plasma to tackle vehicles. Both tauroxs missile launchers and autocannons for higher strength shots.

Both squads will be ten men with two hot shot volley guns in each, both tauroxs will have hot shot volley guns, one gatling one battle cannon, so they are both intended to tackle meqs. It is far from competitive I know, but it will at least have the flexibility to respond to most things in low point games.

Disclaimer: I am an occasional, no competitive player.

I tend too to put volley in big squads. I just keep reading about volleys in command and squads needing plasma, so I was wondering.

I find 3-4 plasmas with L9 orders just much better!

Same tauroxes (but the BC has autocannons)! Probably full missile is the optimal, but I wanted to diversify the models

Yeah I'm the same, I probably paint two armies a year, and play roughly the same number of games. And I definitely agree with diversity.

I'm going with the volleys with squads just for sheer marine killing power, two of them, added to the two from the taurox and a gatling cannon is going to cause a lot of dead marines. I prefer plasma in commands, as the medic at least gives a little more protection from gets hot. I just wish the grenade launcher was decent in game, it looks great, but can't see a use for it.

Volleys have gets hot as well. Also with salvo it seems difficult to ever get them to shoot at their full number of shots and range as scions lack relentless.

Faq took gets hot away from volleys. Probably only get four shots whilst objective camping.

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Use the MT models with a different set of rules if you can. 12pts/model for T3/4+ models with S3 attacks makes them incredibly difficult to actually make function; Grenadier Guard veterans or Inquisitorial Henchmen do most of the same things better (and if you've got access to Imperial Armour Elysians have reliable Reserves for their Valkyries on top of that).

Inquisitorial have BS3. It could be not what people want (of course it becomes moot for a unit with flamers).

Better keep the point cost low, though, they just cannot at higher point value unless one uses other imperial units and/or the opponent is not high tier or not a huge swarm.

I wish they had a better order system. I will write an homebrew one of these days

It isn't. My old Inquisitorial Stormtroopers have been continuously getting excised more and more thoroughly from the rules. Elysians are a better option for alternate MT than the Inquisition (since they've actually got Orders and BS4 Guardsmen that don't cost a fortune), but they're the one that requires a Forge World book.

IIRC, you cannot have hot-shots as troops with Elysian, am I right? Also, Elysian have not D-99 with carapace troops.
Happy to be wrong, mind it - I am just not that familiar. Not being confrontational.

Edit: to be clear, Elysian intrigue me! tell us more!

Hotshots are the problem with MT; they're too useless most of the time and too good the rest, and the unit's priced assuming they'll be good all the time so usually your line troops are at least 3pts/model too expensive for an effect that doesn't help them.

Neither Elysian list can have hot-shot lasguns and D-99 can't get carapace, what they do have is Valkyries as Dedicated Transports, Drop Pod Assault for said Valkyries, their own sniper units, and a special-weapons-and-air-support battle plan that plays well to what the MT are supposed to be doing without requiring you to dump half your points into irrelevant bonuses for your units. D-99 also has BS4 Valkyries.

Don't MT have Vendettas as a DT? I don't remember.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Use the MT models with a different set of rules if you can. 12pts/model for T3/4+ models with S3 attacks makes them incredibly difficult to actually make function; Grenadier Guard veterans or Inquisitorial Henchmen do most of the same things better (and if you've got access to Imperial Armour Elysians have reliable Reserves for their Valkyries on top of that).

Inquisitorial have BS3. It could be not what people want (of course it becomes moot for a unit with flamers).

Better keep the point cost low, though, they just cannot at higher point value unless one uses other imperial units and/or the opponent is not high tier or not a huge swarm.

I wish they had a better order system. I will write an homebrew one of these days

It isn't. My old Inquisitorial Stormtroopers have been continuously getting excised more and more thoroughly from the rules. Elysians are a better option for alternate MT than the Inquisition (since they've actually got Orders and BS4 Guardsmen that don't cost a fortune), but they're the one that requires a Forge World book.

IIRC, you cannot have hot-shots as troops with Elysian, am I right? Also, Elysian have not D-99 with carapace troops.
Happy to be wrong, mind it - I am just not that familiar. Not being confrontational.

Edit: to be clear, Elysian intrigue me! tell us more!

Hotshots are the problem with MT; they're too useless most of the time and too good the rest, and the unit's priced assuming they'll be good all the time so usually your line troops are at least 3pts/model too expensive for an effect that doesn't help them.

Neither Elysian list can have hot-shot lasguns and D-99 can't get carapace, what they do have is Valkyries as Dedicated Transports, Drop Pod Assault for said Valkyries, their own sniper units, and a special-weapons-and-air-support battle plan that plays well to what the MT are supposed to be doing without requiring you to dump half your points into irrelevant bonuses for your units. D-99 also has BS4 Valkyries.

Are thay that good/bad? The hotshots I mean.
Many squads get a different loadout (maybe I get it wrong, but is better an high HQ/troop ratio because of orders and massed specials) but when the hotshots is present, many units that "fear" it have T4 or 5 or even 6 (necron warriors, immortals, marines, nurgle). Aspect warriors can fear them but who use them now? Sisters? Skitarii?
Orks are too many, tyranids i don't know them well, with dark eldar is kinda wasted I guess.. crisis can suffer it ut is still a 5+ to wound.

Anyway, is a modelism thing too, people sometimes start an army for the models, maybe a good idea is carapace vets and remove the "strings" for the hotshots for the pseudo-elysians.

Now I am convinced to try out a fandex homebrew, especially for better orders.

Personally, I find the most interesting aspect of them to be the airborne aspect, so consider how you want to play them before you buy anything.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Don't MT have Vendettas as a DT? I don't remember.

Looking at the book now, only Taurox Primes as DTs. Valkyries (not Vendettas) available as FA choices.

The Airborne Assault formation in the book looks pretty fun, if you're of a mind to play as Air Cav. 4 Valks is a little spendy, though.

 Necroagogo wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Don't MT have Vendettas as a DT? I don't remember.

Looking at the book now, only Taurox Primes as DTs. Valkyries (not Vendettas) available as FA choices.

The Airborne Assault formation in the book looks pretty fun, if you're of a mind to play as Air Cav. 4 Valks is a little spendy, though.

I wouldn't be against buying them, but painting and transporting them? No thanks.

 Melissia wrote:
Personally, I find the most interesting aspect of them to be the airborne aspect, so consider how you want to play them before you buy anything.

I don't find the Valks cost efficent (albeit I have one for the model and IG). Equipped "well" is 135-145 points, 10 f these points are dubious because BS3, and while is great for IG to gravchute insert a demolition team, Scions already deepstrike.

True that there is no alternative without allies for anti-air. Why they did not give the scions a Vendetta is beyond me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The Fandex is up.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/710010.page#9056977

Not every choice of army has to be about points efficiency.

I can't say I'm particularly well versed regarding IG these days, but the fact that MT was described as " a more difficult Dark Eldar" makes me feel really sorry for you guys who play them.

 JamesY wrote:

 Necroagogo wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Don't MT have Vendettas as a DT? I don't remember.

Looking at the book now, only Taurox Primes as DTs. Valkyries (not Vendettas) available as FA choices.

The Airborne Assault formation in the book looks pretty fun, if you're of a mind to play as Air Cav. 4 Valks is a little spendy, though.

I wouldn't be against buying them, but painting and transporting them? No thanks.

Yep most flyers are too big. This is something one can say about the game in general. Bigger models make it less appealing to those that want or have to move a lot to play.