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Are Kurnoth hunters equipped with melee weapons worth it? I'm running 2 units with bows at 1500 points and moving up to 2k I was thinking of adding a third unit, possibly for the warscrolls battalion with the Spirit of Durthu, and I wasn't sure if I should just stick with another bow unit or make the last one a melee unit with great swords (since those seem to have the highest damage potential).

If you are running three units then having one be melee would be a good move, yes.

Yes, the melee ones can be really good. For scenarios like Gift From the Heavens you'll need hardy stuff to get within 6" of your opponent's comet to deny him the points. Melee Kurnoth Hunters are perfect for that especially in the formation which lets then run an extra D6 towards a target in the hero phase.

Seconded on making them Melee, though I would choose carefully between the Sword and the Scythe. While the Swords can theoretically do more damage the Scythes have -2 Rend, which is fairly hard to come by for Sylvaneth (At least when compared with some other armies like Stormcast). So I guess it would depend on your target as to which you want to take. If you can I would magnetise/pin them so you can change them out if you wanted.

And also if you bought three units of Kurnoth Hunters with Bows I'd think you might get a reputation as a bit of a TG.

Can I ask..... What is a TG?

 TheManWithNoPlan wrote:
Seconded on making them Melee, though I would choose carefully between the Sword and the Scythe. While the Swords can theoretically do more damage the Scythes have -2 Rend, which is fairly hard to come by for Sylvaneth (At least when compared with some other armies like Stormcast). So I guess it would depend on your target as to which you want to take. If you can I would magnetise/pin them so you can change them out if you wanted.

And also if you bought three units of Kurnoth Hunters with Bows I'd think you might get a reputation as a bit of a TG.

Just wanted to chime in that yes, melee Kurnoths are good. I did the math for scythes vs. swords and swords are MUCH better against - and 6+ saves, better against 5+ and 4+ saves, and equal against 3+ saves. Scythes are only better against 2+ saves or 3+ saves if there is some sort of reroll involved. Against enemies with fixed saves (either unrendable or wtih some sort of powerful save-after-the-save swords are going to be much better. Scythes are better against saves that ignore rend -1 but get full impact by rend -2 or better.

So purely on paper swords are almost always better than scythes.

THAT SAID, someone else did bring up the fact that if you are using the Kurnoths' save reroll ability which limits them to 1" movement/pile-in, the 2" range on the scythes may actually become very relevant. I think this is the kind of thing that you'd only figure out the true impact of by playtesting rather than theory as it's much harder to cleanly quantify.


One other thing that has not been mentioned are Tree-kin. Tree-kin are actually very similar to Kurnoths in efficiency.

Swords: 11.56 rend 1 damage
Scythes: 8.67 rend 2 damage
Tree-kin: 7 rend 0 damage

Kurnoths (thicket): 60 effective wounds (rend 0) , 34 effective wounds (rend 1), 21.6 effective wounds (rend 2), 15 effective wounds (rend 3 or mortal)
Kurnoths (no thicket): 30 effective wounds (rend 0), 22.5 effective wounds (rend 1), 18 effective wounds (rend 2), 15 effective wounds (rend 3 or mortal)
Tree-kin: 24 effective wounds (rend 0), 18 effective wounds (rend 1), 14.4 effective wounds (rend 2), 12 effective wounds (rend 3 or mortal)

The thing is, Kurnoths cost 180 points while the Tree-kin only cost 100.

On defense: against rendy attacks, Tree-kin are way more efficient regardless of thicket or no. Against low rend or no-rend attacks, Tree-kin are better than non-thicket Kurnoths, a tiny bit worse than thicket at rend 1 and quite a bit worse than thicket against rend 0.
On offense, the Tree-kin are more efficient against unrendable saves and models with no saves. Swords are more efficient than Tree-kin in other scenarios. Tree-kin are also more efficient than scythes against 6+ saves and only a tiny bit less efficient against 5+ saves. Against 4+ or lower saves the scythes pull ahead.

Tree-kin are also a tiny bit faster than Kurnoths.



TL;DR Tree-kin analysis: They are more efficient than Kurnoths in most situations on defense (with the notable exception of thicketed kurnoths against no-rend attacks) and a bit less efficient on offense (except against unrendable or no-save models, in which case they are a bit better than swords and a lot better than scythes).

Swarmofseals, I stand corrected. That is some well done maths, and also not something I had thought about before. I had kind of written off Tree-Kin as an interesting unit, but one that was out-classed by Kurnoth Hunters for melee and Dryads for staying-power.
You've certainly changed the outlook of this Sylvaneth player. Excellent tactical analysis.

Also DaMayoR, TG stands for That Guy. Give it a quick google search and I'm sure you'll see what I mean.

 TheManWithNoPlan wrote:
Swarmofseals, I stand corrected. That is some well done maths, and also not something I had thought about before. I had kind of written off Tree-Kin as an interesting unit, but one that was out-classed by Kurnoth Hunters for melee and Dryads for staying-power.
You've certainly changed the outlook of this Sylvaneth player. Excellent tactical analysis.

Also DaMayoR, TG stands for That Guy. Give it a quick google search and I'm sure you'll see what I mean.

It still seems Hunters are better though. BUT all sylvaneth mages get the Treekin heal spell.

If you fight stormcast or do not use things like Alarielle and Durthu one or more Scytes is a good idea. Bows are bring something sylvaneth don't have so are good if you expect you'll need to drop 2-4 wounds of a monster before it engages or if enemie has key 5 wound hero's that have strong buffs.Swords are ust always a good option.
Getting one of each for your first 3 units is not a bad choice.

Aezeal wrote:

 TheManWithNoPlan wrote:
Swarmofseals, I stand corrected. That is some well done maths, and also not something I had thought about before. I had kind of written off Tree-Kin as an interesting unit, but one that was out-classed by Kurnoth Hunters for melee and Dryads for staying-power.
You've certainly changed the outlook of this Sylvaneth player. Excellent tactical analysis.

Also DaMayoR, TG stands for That Guy. Give it a quick google search and I'm sure you'll see what I mean.

It still seems Hunters are better though. BUT all sylvaneth mages get the Treekin heal spell.

Aezeal - I'm not sure where you are getting that. If you are looking at the numbers I put above only, remember that Kurnoths cost 1.8 times more than Tree-kin, and I'm talking about efficiency as opposed to raw power. On raw power Kurnoths definitely win, you are correct. But when you control for points cost it's very situational. There are some situations where Tree-kin are strictly more efficient, some where Kurnoths are strictly more efficient, and most where each has advantages and disadvantages (with the general trend of Kurnoths being a bit more killy while Tree-kin are more defensively efficient).

TheManWithNoPlan - Thanks! And yeah, Tree-kin do appear to be in a weird place between Dryads and Kurnoths, but Dryads lose some relative to Tree-kin when you factor in battleshock. When next to a wyldwood and with the save bonus, dryads are going to be tankier than tree-kin on paper, but single wound models are very vulnerable to battleshock while Tree-kin aren't. Without the wyldwood bonus, Tree-kin are pretty clearly tankier (12 points per wound with a 5+, maybe 4+ save for dryads, 8.33 points per wound with a straight 4+ save for tree-kin).