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Hey folks, I'm looking to build my 5 BaC cataphractii and wondering how best to kit them out to take on a range of threats.

They'll initially be foot slogging but may get some wheels in the future.

I gather power fists and chainfists is generally the way to go but is that a waste of the SoH merciless fighters rule?

Potential load outs would be really appreciated!

Cheers!

Make them justaerin.

I second Justaerin terminators, probably with powerfists.

You want to make them Justaerin. Higher WS, two wounds, Furious Charge, and Stubborn make them the better choice.

I do a mix of weapons- a Multimelta, because few, if any other Legions get them, and sometimes, you just need a S8 AP1 shot at 24". A couple chain fists- they are a little more expensive then a p-fist, but guarantee anti-vehicle hits. Finally, the bulk of the squad has power weapons or lightning claws. Why? To benefit the most from the Mercilious Fighters special rule. A model that goes at initiative 1 can't benefit from this rule. You can't sweep, so you have to kill as much as you can in the assault phase.

You should always try for combi-plasma or melta with these guys. You get +1 BS when shooting a rapid fire, assault, or pistol at 12" or less. BS5 is pretty good for a 1-shot weapon.

My "Go To" five man squad:

Combi-plasma, chain fist
Multimelta, chain fist
3x Combi-plasma+power weapon

I'm thinking of using 3x Lightning Claws just to see how they work out. The top list means I usually win the combat's I charge, then lose the squad on the next round when they are standing out in the open, being shot to death. :/ But it does take a lot of shots to take them out!

I have 2 units of Terminators and 1 unit of Justaerin for my Sons of Horus. I usually deep strike 5 Justaerin in normal games, but I also have a 10 man squad in a Spartan too for fun. My Justaerin are usually accompanied by my Praetor. Merciless fighters is an important thing to consider, but just remember that you probably always need at least 1 chainfist.

I loaded them all out differently to take on different targets.

5 Cataphractii: Anti-tank loadout
5x Combi-Meltas, 5x Chainfists

5 Cataphractii: Anti-Infantry loadout
4x Volkite Chargers, 1x Heavy Flamer, 5x Lightning Claws, 1x Grenade Harness

5 Justaerin Terminators: Mixed Loadout
4x Combi-Plasma, 1x Multi Melta, 4x Lightning Claws, 1x Chainfist.

Alternative 10 man Justaerin Terminators: Mixed Loadout
4x Combi-Plasma, 2x Multi Melta, 4x Lightning Claws, 3x Chainfist, 4x Twin Lightning Claws.

My 5 man squad has the sergeant with chainfist and grenade harness, 2 power fists, 2 chainfists and a heavy flamer. I attach the praetor from calth for a total of 3 chainfists and a master crafted chainfist.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:


5 Justaerin Terminators: Mixed Loadout
4x Combi-Plasma, 1x Multi Melta, 4x Lightning Claws, 1x Chainfist, 1x Grenade Harness

Justaerin can't take a grenade harness

Justaerin can't take a grenade harness

Yep, you are correct. It's on my Praetor. My mistake.

A multi-melta is very bad advice.

Not only is it ridiculously expensive, but it doesn't work with the Sons of Horus rules to give them BS5.

Just take combi-meltas or combi-plasmas, shoot off your one volley when you get a chance, and spend the rest of the game smashing heads.

Melee weapons should be fists and a pair of chainfists per 5 guys, just to have your bases covered. Merciless fighter is indeed wasted here, but the only way to capitalize on that is with lightning claws, which means your Justaerin will kill a lot of power armored enemies (but not be able to sweep), while losing to even generic cataphracts with power fists. It's a bit cookie-cutter, but it's the far and away the best choice. S9 on the charge, too, fun stuff.

Multi Melta isn't that bad. It's expensive but it can kill stuff that doesn't have ceramite armour and auto kills multi wound characters, as well as having a longer range.

If you are taking Justaerin it's an option, because no other Terminator unit has access to multi-meltas. Not to mention discussing the pros and cons of all their options including lightning claws in combination with their special rules.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
Multi Melta isn't that bad. It's expensive but it can kill stuff that doesn't have ceramite armour and auto kills multi wound characters, as well as having a longer range.

If you are taking Justaerin it's an option, because no other Terminator unit has access to multi-meltas. Not to mention discussing the pros and cons of all their options including lightning claws in combination with their special rules.

It's worse than a melta-gun, because you are BS4 rather than BS5 with it. It doesn't benefit from the Death Dealers (i think that's the one) special rule since it is a heavy weapon. The extra range is meaningless when you are deep striking without scatter or piling out of an assault transport. And it costs as much as 3.5 combi-weapons. It's an objectively bad choice. Just because something is an unusual option, doesn't mean it's any good (see conversion beamer on short-range lernean terminator unit for Alphas).

As for lightning claws, maybe if they were like 5 points per claw. As is, you spend as much as the fist/combi-weapon variant, and end up with a unit good at shredding regular infantry but two key problems. 1. You cannot sweep with this unit, so large fearless units will bog you down. 2. regular infantry is vulnerable to a lot of common shooting options that sending an elite unit to mulch them seems a misapplication of resources. I'm not even sure they would kill more models even with the extra attack, vs. a BS5 combi-plasma volley followed by powerfists.

The cataphractii claws do look cool, though, so there is always that.

It doesn't benefit from Dealers of Death, but neither do Chain Fists or Power Fists benefit from Merciless fighters.

It's certainly not the optimal choice, but I don't think it's game ruiningly terrible. Combi-weapons are certainly good.

A single lightning claw is 5 points on Justaerin, but two are 15 for some reason. I think Shred+Furious Charge combined with weight of attacks can get you through some more sticky situations. Even Terminators go down with enough failed armour saves.

At the end of the day, I really feel like HH should be about making a fluffy army anyway. So i'm not too caught up with making a "wrong" choice when it comes to 30K. And you are right, Lightning Claws do look fething awesome.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
It doesn't benefit from Dealers of Death, but neither do Chain Fists or Power Fists benefit from Merciless fighters.

It's certainly not the optimal choice, but I don't think it's game ruiningly terrible. Combi-weapons are certainly good.

A single lightning claw is 5 points on Justaerin, but two are 15 for some reason. I think Shred+Furious Charge combined with weight of attacks can get you through some more sticky situations. Even Terminators go down with enough failed armour saves.

At the end of the day, I really feel like HH should be about making a fluffy army anyway. So i'm not too caught up with making a "wrong" choice when it comes to 30K. And you are right, Lightning Claws do look fething awesome.

Yes, fists don't benefit from Merciless Fighter, but they are still a far superior weapon to a lightning claw. Not really an equivalent comparison to the combi-weapon vs. multi-melta, when the former benefits from bonuses and is a far better weapon from a sheer cost perspective.

Shred, furious charge, and merciless fighters does certainly make for a large volume of attacks, but I would run (no pun intended) from terminators with this unit. Even with the fist load-out this is not an ideal match-up since if they also have fists your extra wounds are worthless, but at least BS5 combi-weapons + WS5 fists will at the very least take them down with you. With lightning claws, you'll be scratching their armor while they double you out. Add Horus to deal with nasty AP2 enemies, and use the extra wounds for Look Out Sir! shenanigans.

Yea, doubling out opponents with two or more wounds is something to think about.

Powefists/chainfists are great for that.

I think it comes down to understanding really what you want a unit to do and making wargear choices based on that.