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So if this is obvious but im new to 40k
So I brought my codex and read the hell out of it, but I heard from someone that there was a special demon or something in dark vengeance special edition which had like 2+ armour save which is strange considering demon princes have a +3 at best.
Also when I got normal dark vengeance I got a datasheet for something which looked like an aspiring champion, however it says a name so is it like a character model?
Sorry im just really confused and it's bugging me that I don't know all of the units eventhough I have a codex.

I didn't think there was a special demon in the Dark Vengeance set, for Chaos there is an Chaos Lord, 20 cultists, 6 Chosen, a helbrute and the named Aspiring Champion. Also, if models have a name they tend to also be unique so you can only have one of that named character in your army. Hope this helps

Maybe you mean Be'Lakor? He can have 2+ cover if he jinks. He has a separate dataslate.

The named Character in dak vengeance is Vrosh Tattersoul hes a pretty cheap lord/expensive aspiring champion, he is a beautiful model though. The only daemon with a 2+ save without any psychic shenanigans is Be'lakor like someone said with his 2+cover and no armour

Aight thanks guys!
Is there a website with actually all of the units?

GW's website has all of the models, not sure if there's an index of exactly what's printed where.

If you want absolutely all possible rules for Chaos you're going to need six books: Codex: CSM (for the baseline stuff), Codex: Chaos Daemons (Daemonic Incursion Edition) (for Daemons and supplement content (including Be'lakor)), Codex: Khorne Daemonkin (for selected bits and peices of the previous two with new detachment/formation rules), Codex: Traitor Legions (for the CSM Legion-specific detachments/formations/relics), the Traitor's Hate supplement (for Chaos Knights), and Imperial Armour Volume 13 (for Forge World vehicles and the Renegades list). In practice you can grab one or two of these to play with and ignore the rest, you don't actually need all six every game.

As far as I know the Dark Vengeance rules are names stapled to generic characters and don't actually do anything different (the same way Cassius in Deathwatch: Overkill is identical to a normal Deathwatch Chaplain except that he's unique and named).

 AnomanderRake wrote:
GW's website has all of the models, not sure if there's an index of exactly what's printed where.

If you want absolutely all possible rules for Chaos you're going to need six books: Codex: CSM (for the baseline stuff), Codex: Chaos Daemons (Daemonic Incursion Edition) (for Daemons and supplement content (including Be'lakor)), Codex: Khorne Daemonkin (for selected bits and peices of the previous two with new detachment/formation rules), Codex: Traitor Legions (for the CSM Legion-specific detachments/formations/relics), the Traitor's Hate supplement (for Chaos Knights), and Imperial Armour Volume 13 (for Forge World vehicles and the Renegades list). In practice you can grab one or two of these to play with and ignore the rest, you don't actually need all six every game.

As far as I know the Dark Vengeance rules are names stapled to generic characters and don't actually do anything different (the same way Cassius in Deathwatch: Overkill is identical to a normal Deathwatch Chaplain except that he's unique and named).

What out of:

Crimson Slaughter
Black Legion
Wrath of Magnus

Are still valid and current?

 AnomanderRake wrote:
GW's website has all of the models, not sure if there's an index of exactly what's printed where.

If you want absolutely all possible rules for Chaos you're going to need six books: Codex: CSM (for the baseline stuff), Codex: Chaos Daemons (Daemonic Incursion Edition) (for Daemons and supplement content (including Be'lakor)), Codex: Khorne Daemonkin (for selected bits and peices of the previous two with new detachment/formation rules), Codex: Traitor Legions (for the CSM Legion-specific detachments/formations/relics), the Traitor's Hate supplement (for Chaos Knights), and Imperial Armour Volume 13 (for Forge World vehicles and the Renegades list). In practice you can grab one or two of these to play with and ignore the rest, you don't actually need all six every game.

Jesus, that's an utterly intimidating list of books to have to read up on (sure, it's not all absolutely required, but the fact that it's split up like all of that at all has got to be absolutely terrifying to anyone starting out).

 Zande4 wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
GW's website has all of the models, not sure if there's an index of exactly what's printed where.

If you want absolutely all possible rules for Chaos you're going to need six books: Codex: CSM (for the baseline stuff), Codex: Chaos Daemons (Daemonic Incursion Edition) (for Daemons and supplement content (including Be'lakor)), Codex: Khorne Daemonkin (for selected bits and peices of the previous two with new detachment/formation rules), Codex: Traitor Legions (for the CSM Legion-specific detachments/formations/relics), the Traitor's Hate supplement (for Chaos Knights), and Imperial Armour Volume 13 (for Forge World vehicles and the Renegades list). In practice you can grab one or two of these to play with and ignore the rest, you don't actually need all six every game.

As far as I know the Dark Vengeance rules are names stapled to generic characters and don't actually do anything different (the same way Cassius in Deathwatch: Overkill is identical to a normal Deathwatch Chaplain except that he's unique and named).

What out of:

Crimson Slaughter
Black Legion
Wrath of Magnus

Are still valid and current?

All the stuff in Black Legion was updated in Traitor Legions.
All the stuff in Wrath of Magnus for CSMs was reprinted in Chaos Legions.
Crimson Slaughter content hasn't been printed anywhere else.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Fafnir wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
GW's website has all of the models, not sure if there's an index of exactly what's printed where.

If you want absolutely all possible rules for Chaos you're going to need six books: Codex: CSM (for the baseline stuff), Codex: Chaos Daemons (Daemonic Incursion Edition) (for Daemons and supplement content (including Be'lakor)), Codex: Khorne Daemonkin (for selected bits and peices of the previous two with new detachment/formation rules), Codex: Traitor Legions (for the CSM Legion-specific detachments/formations/relics), the Traitor's Hate supplement (for Chaos Knights), and Imperial Armour Volume 13 (for Forge World vehicles and the Renegades list). In practice you can grab one or two of these to play with and ignore the rest, you don't actually need all six every game.

Jesus, that's an utterly intimidating list of books to have to read up on (sure, it's not all absolutely required, but the fact that it's split up like all of that at all has got to be absolutely terrifying to anyone starting out).

And that list isn't even including all the Dataslates you can get on the App Store, like Cypher or the 3 Helbrute Formations.

Crimson Slaughter have a relic armor called Daemonheart, that was a 2+ save and IWND. It couldn't be taken by Daemon Princes however. For several years it was the only source of Chaos Artificer Armor.

Now there are 2 Traitor Legion relics for the Night Lords, and Iron Warriors that do not have Lord and Sorcerer only restriction, which makes for some twisted 2+ re-rollable Ones tricks when taken on a Tzeentch prince.

 Fafnir wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
GW's website has all of the models, not sure if there's an index of exactly what's printed where.

If you want absolutely all possible rules for Chaos you're going to need six books: Codex: CSM (for the baseline stuff), Codex: Chaos Daemons (Daemonic Incursion Edition) (for Daemons and supplement content (including Be'lakor)), Codex: Khorne Daemonkin (for selected bits and peices of the previous two with new detachment/formation rules), Codex: Traitor Legions (for the CSM Legion-specific detachments/formations/relics), the Traitor's Hate supplement (for Chaos Knights), and Imperial Armour Volume 13 (for Forge World vehicles and the Renegades list). In practice you can grab one or two of these to play with and ignore the rest, you don't actually need all six every game.

Jesus, that's an utterly intimidating list of books to have to read up on (sure, it's not all absolutely required, but the fact that it's split up like all of that at all has got to be absolutely terrifying to anyone starting out).

Well tbh, that's a bit over the top. That's including all of chaos When the question was for CSM.
Which really only need the base dex and then either CS or legions depending on what aspect of csm you prefer. KDK are their own thing as are daemons and even IA13 isn't exactly a must have anymore due to how none of those units fit into one of the new decurions.
The renegade knight isn't technically CSM either. Although you probably want TH as well if you go CS, so three book in that case.

So three books is a bit of a bummer but most people will want legions and two books is fine if you as me. You might still need the daemons book for summoning daemons , but that's true for every psyker in the game bar greyknights.

By comparison, a Space marine player doesn't need to look at every armies of the imperium dex there is either, which would be WAY worse than the chaos situation.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
GW's website has all of the models, not sure if there's an index of exactly what's printed where.

If you want absolutely all possible rules for Chaos you're going to need six books: Codex: CSM (for the baseline stuff), Codex: Chaos Daemons (Daemonic Incursion Edition) (for Daemons and supplement content (including Be'lakor)), Codex: Khorne Daemonkin (for selected bits and peices of the previous two with new detachment/formation rules), Codex: Traitor Legions (for the CSM Legion-specific detachments/formations/relics), the Traitor's Hate supplement (for Chaos Knights), and Imperial Armour Volume 13 (for Forge World vehicles and the Renegades list). In practice you can grab one or two of these to play with and ignore the rest, you don't actually need all six every game.

As far as I know the Dark Vengeance rules are names stapled to generic characters and don't actually do anything different (the same way Cassius in Deathwatch: Overkill is identical to a normal Deathwatch Chaplain except that he's unique and named).

In terms of Forgeworld, the Siege of Vraks books has a different army list for Renegades, and also has the Purge Detachment along with CSM Characters, so if you want everything Chaos you'd need that as well.

So many books... thankfully, between me and my friend we have every book, bar the Black Legion supplement (which has been superseded anyway).

 Roknar wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
GW's website has all of the models, not sure if there's an index of exactly what's printed where.

If you want absolutely all possible rules for Chaos you're going to need six books: Codex: CSM (for the baseline stuff), Codex: Chaos Daemons (Daemonic Incursion Edition) (for Daemons and supplement content (including Be'lakor)), Codex: Khorne Daemonkin (for selected bits and peices of the previous two with new detachment/formation rules), Codex: Traitor Legions (for the CSM Legion-specific detachments/formations/relics), the Traitor's Hate supplement (for Chaos Knights), and Imperial Armour Volume 13 (for Forge World vehicles and the Renegades list). In practice you can grab one or two of these to play with and ignore the rest, you don't actually need all six every game.

Jesus, that's an utterly intimidating list of books to have to read up on (sure, it's not all absolutely required, but the fact that it's split up like all of that at all has got to be absolutely terrifying to anyone starting out).

Well tbh, that's a bit over the top. That's including all of chaos When the question was for CSM.
Which really only need the base dex and then either CS or legions depending on what aspect of csm you prefer. KDK are their own thing as are daemons and even IA13 isn't exactly a must have anymore due to how none of those units fit into one of the new decurions.
The renegade knight isn't technically CSM either. Although you probably want TH as well if you go CS, so three book in that case.

So three books is a bit of a bummer but most people will want legions and two books is fine if you as me. You might still need the daemons book for summoning daemons , but that's true for every psyker in the game bar greyknights.

By comparison, a Space marine player doesn't need to look at every armies of the imperium dex there is either, which would be WAY worse than the chaos situation.

So you said about only getting one on depending on how you play? What would be the best book for a khorne player?

Would crimson slaughter be worth buying for anyone new to the game?

 TheLumberJack wrote:
Would crimson slaughter be worth buying for anyone new to the game?

I just found this website, it could help http://bloodofkittens.com/codex-compendium/

I guess you also need Traitor's Hate. Its almost everything there you need additionally.

ShadowPug wrote:

 Roknar wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
GW's website has all of the models, not sure if there's an index of exactly what's printed where.

If you want absolutely all possible rules for Chaos you're going to need six books: Codex: CSM (for the baseline stuff), Codex: Chaos Daemons (Daemonic Incursion Edition) (for Daemons and supplement content (including Be'lakor)), Codex: Khorne Daemonkin (for selected bits and peices of the previous two with new detachment/formation rules), Codex: Traitor Legions (for the CSM Legion-specific detachments/formations/relics), the Traitor's Hate supplement (for Chaos Knights), and Imperial Armour Volume 13 (for Forge World vehicles and the Renegades list). In practice you can grab one or two of these to play with and ignore the rest, you don't actually need all six every game.

Jesus, that's an utterly intimidating list of books to have to read up on (sure, it's not all absolutely required, but the fact that it's split up like all of that at all has got to be absolutely terrifying to anyone starting out).

Well tbh, that's a bit over the top. That's including all of chaos When the question was for CSM.
Which really only need the base dex and then either CS or legions depending on what aspect of csm you prefer. KDK are their own thing as are daemons and even IA13 isn't exactly a must have anymore due to how none of those units fit into one of the new decurions.
The renegade knight isn't technically CSM either. Although you probably want TH as well if you go CS, so three book in that case.

So three books is a bit of a bummer but most people will want legions and two books is fine if you as me. You might still need the daemons book for summoning daemons , but that's true for every psyker in the game bar greyknights.

By comparison, a Space marine player doesn't need to look at every armies of the imperium dex there is either, which would be WAY worse than the chaos situation.

So you said about only getting one on depending on how you play? What would be the best book for a khorne player?

In terms of books KDK would be the easiest by a country mile, they only have one total lol. But people seem to be enjoying world eaters as well, in which case base csm dex + traitor legions.
Both are roughly equally powerful. KDK rely more on daemons and their blooodtithes whereas WE just straight up charge into the enemy with marine units and have stronger lords... and they have kharn lol.

So really just depends on how comfortable you are with mixing in daemons. If you do decide you want a knight as well though, you would need Traitor's Hate or one of the knights from forge world (free pdfs with rules).
There is virtually no reason for you to get Traitor's hate otherwise, nor the supplement for crimson slaughter. And IA13 is mostly tanks which you can't use with a the World eater or KDK detachment either and you probably want the detachment in either case.
And KDK has all the daemons you need in the their dex so no need to get any daemon dex/supplement either. Not unless you really want to use certain relics in the daemons codex.

Personally I'd go for World Eaters because I have thing for the original traitor legions, rather than some rag tag band of lunatics. Even if it's a subtle difference lol.

I did miss Crimson Slaughter. It has alternate Relic tables and when combined with one of the formations in Traitor Legions makes Possessed much more terrifying than they would be otherwise, but if you're not looking to make Possessed work it's not particularly important.

Mechanically there isn't much speaking in favour of crimson slaughter imho. Not that they're bad, it's just that legion rules now offer much the same benefits they have. The only thing they have going for them really is an entire supplement built around possessed.

There is a formation for possessed in traitor's hate and legions, but Crimson Slaughter can't use it. They have their own formations that nobody else can use, but unless you're playing a huge game they aren't amazing. They're ok but you need possessed in every one of them. they are tougher but less killy than base possessed.
they can opt not to use them and go with a crusade detachment from Traitor's hate but then you might as well go with a legion.

Legions possessed are less tough but hit A LOT harder then Crimson Slaughter possessed. Not only do they get formations that give them some serious buffs, their mutations are also about killing stuff rather than staying alive.

Which reminds me of Black Legion. They have their own possessed formation which is more practical than the traitor"s hate one and they have their own Khorne based formation which is pretty decent though not objective secured. They also get to use any formation that uses berzerkers, unlike other legions (bar WE ofc). But that's the same requirements as the World eaters in terms of books.

 Roknar wrote:
Mechanically there isn't much speaking in favour of crimson slaughter imho. Not that they're bad, it's just that legion rules now offer much the same benefits they have. The only thing they have going for them really is an entire supplement built around possessed.

There is a formation for possessed in traitor's hate and legions, but Crimson Slaughter can't use it. They have their own formations that nobody else can use, but unless you're playing a huge game they aren't amazing. They're ok but you need possessed in every one of them. they are tougher but less killy than base possessed.
they can opt not to use them and go with a crusade detachment from Traitor's hate but then you might as well go with a legion.

Legions possessed are less tough but hit A LOT harder then Crimson Slaughter possessed. Not only do they get formations that give them some serious buffs, their mutations are also about killing stuff rather than staying alive.

Which reminds me of Black Legion. They have their own possessed formation which is more practical than the traitor"s hate one and they have their own Khorne based formation which is pretty decent though not objective secured. They also get to use any formation that uses berzerkers, unlike other legions (bar WE ofc). But that's the same requirements as the World eaters in terms of books.

This may take a more competent rules lawyer than me but I'm fairly certain you're allowed to mix Traitor Legions formations and Crimson Slaughter content. Traitor Legions formations may be taken as CSM detachments that aren't being built to one of the Legion rules, and you should be able to define any CSM detachment as a Crimson Slaughter detachment if you want. Shrouded Possessed that move as Beasts with a 3++ and Rending should be perfectly legal. They're still worse than Gal Vorbak (30k Possessed), unfortunately.

The problem is that the TL/TH Possessed Formation requires a Daemon Prince whihc have Veterans of the Long War as part of their base wargear.

A Crimson Slaughter Detachment has a restriction on Veterans of the Long War (i.e. you can't have models with it) making it impossible to make the Formation and Crimson Slaughter Detachment.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
The problem is that the TL/TH Possessed Formation requires a Daemon Prince whihc have Veterans of the Long War as part of their base wargear.

A Crimson Slaughter Detachment has a restriction on Veterans of the Long War (i.e. you can't have models with it) making it impossible to make the Formation and Crimson Slaughter Detachment.

OH, missed that. You could rules-lawyer it by claiming "may purchase" and "comes with" are distinct things but I'm not that much of a munchkin (and I have no incentive to keep wrangling it since I've never considered getting any Possessed), so it looks like it doesn't work.

Gal Vorbak are much better, then.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
The problem is that the TL/TH Possessed Formation requires a Daemon Prince whihc have Veterans of the Long War as part of their base wargear.

A Crimson Slaughter Detachment has a restriction on Veterans of the Long War (i.e. you can't have models with it) making it impossible to make the Formation and Crimson Slaughter Detachment.

OH, missed that. You could rules-lawyer it by claiming "may purchase" and "comes with" are distinct things but I'm not that much of a munchkin (and I have no incentive to keep wrangling it since I've never considered getting any Possessed), so it looks like it doesn't work.

Gal Vorbak are much better, then.

The updated Crimson Slaughter supplement released last year changed the wording to "No units in a Crimson Slaughter Detachment or Formation can have the Veterans of the Long War special rule except Khorne Bezerkers, Plague Marines and Noise Marines".

Can't even rules-lawyer it unless you're using the old supplement and your opponent doesn't realise/is ok with it.

You CAN use the Traitor's Hate formations with Crimson slaughter (which are reprinted in traitor legions), except for the cult unit auxiliary choice and the possessed formation. The cults are expressly prohibited but the possessed can't be used due to having VotLW on the prince, but also because CS mutations work differently.