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With the ease of allies now, what flyer would you take to protect yourself against enemy fliers? The assumption being you want to spend as few points as possible for the most effective deterrent as possible. For those that are transports, consider whatever infantry loadout you would take in the determination (both of points and of whether it's worth it). Also, as some armies already have efficient anti-air, assume you are selecting the flier as your primary anti-air.

Superheavy Fliers have not been included in this list due both to their outrageous point price, as well as the fact that they would take up a Lord of War slot.

Stormtalons arguably give you the most bang for your buck I've found. I've yet to use the Corvus though so who knows.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Stormtalons arguably give you the most bang for your buck I've found. I've yet to use the Corvus though so who knows.

I love my talon, but from a pure AA role, I think the new hawk has it beat. For a flexible multi-role, I still might give the nod to the talon though. If just between them.

I honestly don’t know enough about all of the IoM flyers to place a vote.

Of the codex marine ones, for pure AA, I’d go:

hawk
talon
raven

For general use, swap the hawk/talon. Ravens, like LRs, pay a lot of points for flexibility and mutually exclusive roles. The do OK as a flying gunboat, but not nearly as efficient as the smaller birds.

For dominating the sky's, I think a Stormtalon is likely the best bet point for point, at 115 with Skyhammer missiles, it's hard to beat. However, if slots are scarce the Stormraven is a serious contender, especially due to how tough it is. Being able to tank a round of shooting from a flier that just got onto the board is so nice for controlling the sky, allowing you to fire back and likely drop the newcomer out of the air.

I like the corvus blackstar but not for AA.

Its all the good parts of a storm raven and a storm talon.

However, I think the talon takes it for multi role, and the hawk takes it for pure AA (but there are also a ton of good ground tanks for AA. Stalkers are dirt cheap, so are hunters, both pretty effective at what they do, especially when taken en masse)

The 'Hawk is the best option here for the job at hand I feel as it works as enemy flier deterent for the least amount of points while also being more than able to contribute as a ground attack platform. The 15 points you pay over a 'Talon are worth it for the 2 shot lascannon and the extra point of FA is a nice to have bonus, even if it rarely comes into play.

I'm also a huge fan of the Raptor Wing formation for a pair of 'Talons and a speeder as it doesn't break the bank and you know for sure that those talons are coming on turn 2 every single game. Any bonus you get out of the speeder is a nice to have, so it doesn't matter that it's going to be a flaming wreck early on, it's just the tax you pay for not having to roll to bring the talons on. IMHO the 'Talon is better overall, but the 'Hawk is better AA, though it's much of a muchness really.

For the people who voted the 'Raven as the best option, consider that a pair of skyhammer 'Talons are the same price as a hurricane 'Raven while being superior both in the air and against ground targets. Not to mention that transporting anything short of hammernators is a virtual death sentence for the passengers while also putting your (probably expensive) cargo at the whims of the reserve dice. No, the only thing that should transport stuff that has to go in reserves is a drop pod.

I don't understand the votes for the Valkyrie; other than transporting a unit it doesn't do anything well.

As long as your group isn't playing Death From the Skies the Stormwolf is pretty good.
You'd be hard pressed to find a Space Wolves player who wouldn't be delighted by cheaper single purpose air support though.

I use a Vulture in every game I play and I couldn't be happier with it. Vector dancer gives it the maneuverability to engage nearly any target on the field and get behind vehicles to get those rear armor shots

XCaligulaX - what loadout do you run your Vulture with? The one I've seen it most often with is the Punisher Cannon which doesn't seem very useful for light to medium AV, though admittedly with that kind of firepower Hordes tend not to like it much!

 DMajiko wrote:
XCaligulaX - what loadout do you run your Vulture with? The one I've seen it most often with is the Punisher Cannon which doesn't seem very useful for light to medium AV, though admittedly with that kind of firepower Hordes tend not to like it much!

Get into rear armor with it. Against AV 10 you strip an average of ~6 HP per turn.

Nvm

What? No love for the Fireraptors?

One model being able to target 3 different units a turn is bees knees.

 whembly wrote:
What? No love for the Fireraptors?

One model being able to target 3 different units a turn is bees knees.

The Chaos one is better because they get 4 shot Autocannons instead of 6 shot heavy bolters.

Stormraven is the worst. That is all.

I voted storm raven but only when people remember to use it as a transport zip into a vunerable spot, drop off a dread and a scout squad with camo cloaks to hold down some objecives then rain down hell

 G00fySmiley wrote:
I voted storm raven but only when people remember to use it as a transport zip into a vunerable spot, drop off a dread and a scout squad with camo cloaks to hold down some objecives then rain down hell

There is zero chance that thing is the best flyer on here. It's overcosted garbage made unplayable by DFTS.

Martel732 wrote:

 G00fySmiley wrote:
I voted storm raven but only when people remember to use it as a transport zip into a vunerable spot, drop off a dread and a scout squad with camo cloaks to hold down some objecives then rain down hell

There is zero chance that thing is the best flyer on here. It's overcosted garbage made unplayable by DFTS.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion the same as I am I cannot comment on your meta, but in my experience when run like above they do well and as lo ng as they keep flying tend to survive the whole match

I think it's largely meta independent. Having such an expensive model in reserves cripples you out of the box, imo.

I haven't taken one in a while, but the ugliness of a model makes me dislike the stormraven off the bat.

However, when I play against them their damage output is minimal and it is very difficult to drop there payload and stay on the board. I can usually ignore it.

I can't ignore two storm talons, and the double storm talons are harder to kill.

Paying for the spensons has actually given me better results, but I'm still taking it because I have to to get 400 pts of free BA gear.

If Death from the Skies rules are not being used, I would say the Vulture is the best. That or the Vendetta. While the Vendetta is pretty pricey, 3 TL lascannons is downright nasty and it has the armor to survive a round of fire from other flyers.

Stormtalons for me. Cheap, good weapons, small, melta-protected, BS5 against ground targets and a good formation (Raptor Wing) seal the deal.
Fire Raptor comes right behind, because of its sheer power.

Arvus is the worst, of course.

What in particular is it about DFTS that would make the Vulture a bad choice? Or is it that there are better choices if the DFTS ruleset is being used? I ask as my local Meta uses DFTS rules.

 DMajiko wrote:
What in particular is it about DFTS that would make the Vulture a bad choice? Or is it that there are better choices if the DFTS ruleset is being used? I ask as my local Meta uses DFTS rules.

It doesn't get any anti air bonus liike other flyers get in DFTS

I love a sneaky Talon and they're so cheap I also really like what the model looks like

I have yet to use one, but I like the vendetta on paper. It's going to force whatever you're shooting at to jink or risk 2 maybe 3 lascannon hits, and if there aren't fliers it can still do reliable damage to ground targets. While it's only 1 or 2 wounds/HPs a turn it can hurt knights/WKs.

On top, while small, the transport capacity can be useful. Dropping a special weapons squad with melta or scions with melta or volleyguns reliably can catch someone off guard.

I want to like the valkyrie, but once it drops its meltavet squad it's a mild annoyance at best. Giving it a single lascannon (not TL) and two 1 use missiles lets it can deal maybe a HP all game to something, or give it multilaser, HBs, and rocket pods (2 S4 AP6 large blasts) to make it sort of able to deal with infantry but overall still being underwhelming against anything that isn't hordes (where a punisher is about the same cost).

I'm really only familiar with guard and DA ones, and you probably don't want the DA ones. The nephilim can put out a bit of hurt with S7 missiles, and TL las, but after firing those it's not a threat, and the darktalon is gimmicky and unreliable, and unable to do anything to fliers unless you catch their rear with hurricane bolters (about a HP a turn). Either you get the vortex off and it maybe does something, or you fire a small blast demolisher cannon that kills a few things or deals a couple HPs. The stasis bomb can neutralize a choppy unit for a turn, but I've yet to have it do a major impact on the game. Neither really worth taking.

 DMajiko wrote:
What in particular is it about DFTS that would make the Vulture a bad choice? Or is it that there are better choices if the DFTS ruleset is being used? I ask as my local Meta uses DFTS rules.

It depends on if you're meta uses DFTS. In DFTS flyers got 1 of 3 roles. Bombers, fighters, and attack. Fighter have skyfire and can shoot at ground targets at -2 bs. Fighters and bombers don't have sky fire so they have to snap fire at other flyers, but otherwise shoot at ground targets normally. So the vendetta, vulture and valkyrie are attack craft so they would have to snap fire at other flyers.

With DFTS in effect, flyers like Valkryies, Vendettas, and Stormravens need a massive point reduction because they can't fulfill an anti-air role. I wouldn't pay more than 130 for a Stormraven with DFTS in effect.