Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey guys,

So I've written a new list based off of this list while trying to incorporate some of the suggested approaches found in this thread. For when revising the aforementioned list in order to arrive at the list below, I tried to use the first (and generally agreed upon set of ideas) in the 2nd linked thread as described by the quote below:

 Vankraken wrote:
1. How hardcore of a list am I trying to make here? This depends on the opponent (Not list tailoring but I will expect a much more demanding list from Eldar than I would from Imperial Guard or Dark Eldar) and any agreed upon competitiveness levels.
2. How will I deal with vehicles
3. How will I deal with fast moving units
4. How will I deal with Death Stars
5. How will I deal with large numbers of models
6. Does this seem like it will be fun to play?
7. Does this seem like it will be fun to play against?

So here's how the list goes:

Combined Arms Detachment - Black Templars Chapter Tactics

Emperor's Champion [Warlord] [ 140 Points ]

Chaplain [ 90 Points ]

Crusader Squad [ 95 Points ]
-- 5x Initiates
-- Plasma Gun
-- Multi-Melta

Crusader Squad [ 95 Points ]
-- 5x Initiates
-- Plasma Gun
-- Multi-Melta

Rhino [ 35 Points ]

Rhino [ 35 Points ]

Terminator Assault Squad [ 285 Points ]
-- 7x Terminators
-- 4x Thunder Hammer + Storm Shield

Land Raider Crusader [ 260 Points ]
-- Multi-Melta

Centurion Devastator Squad [ 260 Points ]
-- 3x Centurions
-- 3x Grav-Cannon w/ Grav-Amps
-- Veteran Sergeant
-- Omniscope

Drop Pod [ 35 Points ]

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Detachment Total = 1,330 Points
Army Sub-Total = 1,330 Points

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Skyhammer Annihilation Force [ From the Angels of Death Codex Supplement ] - Black Templars Chapter Tactics

Devastator Squad [ 115 Points ]
-- 5x Space Marines
-- 4x Multi-Meltas
-- Armorium Cherub

Devastator Squad [ 215 Points ]
-- 5x Space Marines
-- 4x Grav-Cannons w/ Grav-Amps
-- Armorium Cherub

Drop Pod [ 50 Points ]
-- Deathwind Launcher

Drop Pod [ 50 Points ]
-- Deathwind Launcher

Assault Squad [ 120 Points ]
-- 5x Space Marines
-- Veteran Sergeant
-- Power Sword
-- 2x Flamers
-- 5x Jump Packs

Assault Squad [ 120 Points ]
-- 5x Space Marines
-- Veteran Sergeant
-- Power Sword
-- 2x Flamers
-- 5x Jump Packs

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Detachment Total = 670 Points
Army Sub-Total = 2,000 Points

-----------------------------------------------------------------


So with the above list in mind, let's answer the aforementioned questions and then I'll try to detail how I want to try and use this list.

1. How hardcore of a list am I trying to make here?

I am trying to be relatively competitive, but I'm talking in the context of playing with friends and going to my FLGS to play casual games. This is not a list that I've tried to design with a tournament in mind.

2. How will I deal with vehicles

Well there us a relatively substantial amount of Gravitation as well as a squad of Multi-Melta Devastators. The Crusader Squads are also kitted out to be able to deal with vehicles and infantry pretty effectively. This is why I went for the Multi-Melta and Plasma Gun as opposed to other Special Weapons and Heavy Weapons. The Thunder Hammers on the Terminator Squad as well as two of the four weapons on the LRC are also able to deal with vehicles.

3. How will I deal with fast moving units

This can be relatively difficult for this particular list to deal with, but I get the feeling that the answer to this question very much depends on my opponent in terms of what else they bring, how the deploy and - if they have it - how they use 1st Turn.

4. How will I deal with Death Stars

I feel that the loadouts of the various squads are well suited to this, particularly the Grav.

5. How will I deal with large numbers of models

Again, Grav will do rather well. I also feel that depending on how I use the Skyhammer Annihilation Force, that whole formation could also be used effectively.

6. Does this seem like it will be fun to play?

In short: I think so.

7. Does this seem like it will be fun to play against?

People may get annoyed by the amount of Grav, but beyond that: I have no idea.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Now onto how I plan to use this list starting with the CAD:

So first and foremost, I'd be running the Emperor's Champion, the Chaplain, and the Terminator Assault Squad as a single unit riding in the Land Raider Crusader to serve as my Death Star unit. The LRC will probably need to move the full 12" in the 1st Turn, make use of Power of the Machine Spirit, and wait until Turn 2 before it and the occupants can do anything substantial. This could possibly change depending on whether or not I got first as well as a number of other factors such as deployment, whether they have anyone Deep Striking on Turn 1, etc etc etc.

The two Crusader Squads will be riding around in the Rhinos and - unless special circumstances apply - will probably be roaming to difference objectives and generally avoiding my opposition's deployment zone. They are essentially Objective Takers with the added bonus of being able to deal with a number of different types of enemy unit.

The Centurion Devastator Squad will be coming down on Turn 1 in accordance with the rules for Drop Pods (since that's where I'll be putting the Centurions). The idea is that - at least for Turn 1 - it can cause some major damage and possible draw fire away from other, arguably more important units.


Now for the Skyhammer Annihilation Force:

Firstly, I will be dropping this Formation in Turn one in order to better work with the Centurion Devastator Squad/

Since the Devastator Squads are likely to be targeted first, their primary job is to take out high-value targets (powerful units, scary tanks, etc - that sort of thing). The Devastators equipped with Grav (possibly in conjunction with the Centurions) could also be employed to deal with large infantry blobs.

The Deathwind Launchers are there to help deal with any infantry within the 12" bubble of where the Drop Pod lands. The AP means very little against a number of armies (since it's only AP5), but it is a S5 Large Blast, so it has the potential to do some work. Since there will be two of them, this should (theoretically) work well.

The two Assault Squads are there to attempt to tie up and destroy units in CC. From experience, I know that trying to deal with Grav (and its equivalents) and/or Terminators (and their equivalents) is a bad idea when trying to do it with these sorts of squads, so instead the Assault Squads will be trying to deal with other, relatively weaker infantry.

My concerns about my list

The Chaplain -- The main reason why I have in in there is two-fold: High Leadership in the case of the EC dying, and Zealot for the Terminator Squad. My only concern is that these benefits may not be worth the 90 Points I'm paying for him. Yes, he melee attacks will be decent given his default weaponry, but again: does that really mean he's worth the points in this context?

The Assault Squads -- As much as I like Assault Squads, the tend to be rather squishy which makes using them rather difficult. This is compounded by the fact that they may not always get the benefit from the Suppressing Fusillade Special Rule granted by the Formation since the Devastators may have another target or completely destroy the intended target during the Shooting Phase. This is the main reason why I hate this Formation (despite loving it as well for the power the Devastators are given).

-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Do you think this is an effective list? [ Bear in mind I will not be playing against a list with flyers. ]
What could be changed in order to improve it?

Cheers guys

SOLID SOLEEEEED

Is very fluffy and doctrinally very black Templar.

I would be happy to play against that list with my pile of orks or feisty skitarii tin men.

btw, I am cc this to my black Templar friend who relies too much on knights/land raider and cries when I melta/frag cannon everything turn 1.

Seems like a fairly competitive list, too many guns to be fluffy :(

 Gendo wrote:
Seems like a fairly competitive list, too many guns to be fluffy :(

And there arises the problem with using Black Templars -- It can be difficult to form a competitive list that's 2,000 Points or less that doesn't involve a lot of guns.