Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Is there any reason why I can't take two allied detachments for space marines as long as they both have different chapter tactics? My third and primary detachment is a GK Nemesis strike force.

GK NSF <- warlord goes here
White Scars AD
Red Scorpions AD

Subject to the Allied Detachment's restrictions, you may take as many of them as you'd like.

Thanks good to know. I see the restrictions in the BRB, but for some reason I thought I remembered not being able to take double allied detachments/duplicate detachments. Must have been a tournament rule specific to an event.

That is most likely, I've seen multiple tournament rule packs that state that you can't take the same detachment more then an x amount

As they are different to your Primary detachment they can all be the same chapter as well

 luke1705 wrote:
Thanks good to know. I see the restrictions in the BRB, but for some reason I thought I remembered not being able to take double allied detachments/duplicate detachments. Must have been a tournament rule specific to an event.

It may also have been data left over from 6th Edition. Back then, you could only take two Allied Detachments if you took two Primary Detachments.

The Allied Detachment only has to have a different faction (or in this case, Chapter Tactics) from the Primary Detachment. If you wanted, you could have an Ultramarines Librarius Conclave as your primary detachment and 3 Iron Hands Allied Detachments. The army would be perfectly legal.

 EnTyme wrote:
The Allied Detachment only has to have a different faction (or in this case, Chapter Tactics) from the Primary Detachment. If you wanted, you could have an Ultramarines Librarius Conclave as your primary detachment and 3 Iron Hands Allied Detachments. The army would be perfectly legal.

To clarify... all UNITS in the Allied Detachment must have a different Faction/Chapter Tactics than your Warlord. This actually gets interesting when you include models like Belisarius Cawl, who can be an HQ/Warlord for any Imperium of Man Faction Detachment.

So, this is a legal list (poorly designed) because none of the units in the Allied Detachment are the same Faction as the Warlord (Belisarius Cawl, Cult Mechanicus)...

"Space Marines (Iron Hands)" Combined Arms Detachment
HQ (Warlord) - Belisarius Cawl
Troops - Tac Squad
Troops - Tac Squad
"Space Marines (Iron Hands)" Allied Detachment
HQ - Captain
Troops - Tac Squad

 Kriswall wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:
The Allied Detachment only has to have a different faction (or in this case, Chapter Tactics) from the Primary Detachment. If you wanted, you could have an Ultramarines Librarius Conclave as your primary detachment and 3 Iron Hands Allied Detachments. The army would be perfectly legal.

To clarify... all UNITS in the Allied Detachment must have a different Faction/Chapter Tactics than your Warlord. This actually gets interesting when you include models like Belisarius Cawl, who can be an HQ/Warlord for any Imperium of Man Faction Detachment.

So, this is a legal list (poorly designed) because none of the units in the Allied Detachment are the same Faction as the Warlord (Belisarius Cawl, Cult Mechanicus)...

"Space Marines (Iron Hands)" Combined Arms Detachment
HQ (Warlord) - Belisarius Cawl
Troops - Tac Squad
Troops - Tac Squad
"Space Marines (Iron Hands)" Allied Detachment
HQ - Captain
Troops - Tac Squad

I'd argue that it isn't legal - CAD says that all units must have the same faction or no faction, but Cawl overrides that. You have plenty of Space Marine Faction in it and would most likely be classified as a Space Marine CAD (if it isn't dual clafssified as SM/Cult Mechanicus) Cawl and the others in Fall of Cadia only have a rule that they can be in CAD or allied detachments, not that they change the faction of the detachment to what they are if they are the warlord in a detachment made up from one different faction.

I suspect that this will end up getting a FAQ as to how to handle the factions for the detachments with these characters.

 doctortom wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:
The Allied Detachment only has to have a different faction (or in this case, Chapter Tactics) from the Primary Detachment. If you wanted, you could have an Ultramarines Librarius Conclave as your primary detachment and 3 Iron Hands Allied Detachments. The army would be perfectly legal.

To clarify... all UNITS in the Allied Detachment must have a different Faction/Chapter Tactics than your Warlord. This actually gets interesting when you include models like Belisarius Cawl, who can be an HQ/Warlord for any Imperium of Man Faction Detachment.

So, this is a legal list (poorly designed) because none of the units in the Allied Detachment are the same Faction as the Warlord (Belisarius Cawl, Cult Mechanicus)...

"Space Marines (Iron Hands)" Combined Arms Detachment
HQ (Warlord) - Belisarius Cawl
Troops - Tac Squad
Troops - Tac Squad
"Space Marines (Iron Hands)" Allied Detachment
HQ - Captain
Troops - Tac Squad

I'd argue that it isn't legal - CAD says that all units must have the same faction or no faction, but Cawl overrides that. You have plenty of Space Marine Faction in it and would most likely be classified as a Space Marine CAD (if it isn't dual clafssified as SM/Cult Mechanicus) Cawl and the others in Fall of Cadia only have a rule that they can be in CAD or allied detachments, not that they change the faction of the detachment to what they are if they are the warlord in a detachment made up from one different faction.

I suspect that this will end up getting a FAQ as to how to handle the factions for the detachments with these characters.

Re-read the actual restriction. The restriction says that no UNIT in an Allied Detachment can share the same Faction as the WARLORD. I think my reading is sound. We only care about the Faction of the Units involved. The Allied Detachment restriction doesn't care at all what Faction you think the Primary (Warlord's) Detachment is. The Allied Detachment restriction only cares what Faction the actual Warlord is. The trick is that 99.9% of the time, the Warlord is the same Faction as the other models in his Detachment. Belisarius Cawl (and others) are in the other 0.1% of scenarios.

 Kriswall wrote:

 doctortom wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:
The Allied Detachment only has to have a different faction (or in this case, Chapter Tactics) from the Primary Detachment. If you wanted, you could have an Ultramarines Librarius Conclave as your primary detachment and 3 Iron Hands Allied Detachments. The army would be perfectly legal.

To clarify... all UNITS in the Allied Detachment must have a different Faction/Chapter Tactics than your Warlord. This actually gets interesting when you include models like Belisarius Cawl, who can be an HQ/Warlord for any Imperium of Man Faction Detachment.

So, this is a legal list (poorly designed) because none of the units in the Allied Detachment are the same Faction as the Warlord (Belisarius Cawl, Cult Mechanicus)...

"Space Marines (Iron Hands)" Combined Arms Detachment
HQ (Warlord) - Belisarius Cawl
Troops - Tac Squad
Troops - Tac Squad
"Space Marines (Iron Hands)" Allied Detachment
HQ - Captain
Troops - Tac Squad

I'd argue that it isn't legal - CAD says that all units must have the same faction or no faction, but Cawl overrides that. You have plenty of Space Marine Faction in it and would most likely be classified as a Space Marine CAD (if it isn't dual clafssified as SM/Cult Mechanicus) Cawl and the others in Fall of Cadia only have a rule that they can be in CAD or allied detachments, not that they change the faction of the detachment to what they are if they are the warlord in a detachment made up from one different faction.

I suspect that this will end up getting a FAQ as to how to handle the factions for the detachments with these characters.

Re-read the actual restriction. The restriction says that no UNIT in an Allied Detachment can share the same Faction as the WARLORD. I think my reading is sound. We only care about the Faction of the Units involved. The Allied Detachment restriction doesn't care at all what Faction you think the Primary (Warlord's) Detachment is. The Allied Detachment restriction only cares what Faction the actual Warlord is. The trick is that 99.9% of the time, the Warlord is the same Faction as the other models in his Detachment. Belisarius Cawl (and others) are in the other 0.1% of scenarios.

In the Allied Detachment on page 122 under restrictions it lists as the final restriction "All units chosen must have a different Faction to any of the units in your Primary Detachment (or No Faction)." The only mention of "Warlord" is that you can't take your Warlord from the allied detachment.

So sorry, that list is not legal since you have units that are the same faction as some of the units in the Primary detachment.

Ah. Good call. That's why we go back and re-read things. I had it in my head that it was just the Warlord. This was backed up by some now obviously wrong Google results.

Yup. Won't work. Still interesting that taking Belisarius Cawl as an HQ in, say, a Blood Angels CAD as Primary Detachment would lock out both Blood Angels and Cult Mechanicum Allied Detachments.

It is a good point to make - until this thread I hadn't really thought about it.

 doctortom wrote:
It is a good point to make - until this thread I hadn't really thought about it.

It's even more of an issue for those new Fall of Cadia mega detachments that allow numerous Factions (8 or 9? for the Castellan one). If you take a wide variety of models in your Primary Detachment, you could potentially lock out 8-9+ Factions from taking Allied Detachments.

 Kriswall wrote:

 doctortom wrote:
It is a good point to make - until this thread I hadn't really thought about it.

It's even more of an issue for those new Fall of Cadia mega detachments that allow numerous Factions (8 or 9? for the Castellan one). If you take a wide variety of models in your Primary Detachment, you could potentially lock out 8-9+ Factions from taking Allied Detachments.

To be fair, though, you'd have to be doing some pretty serious min-maxing to use one of the Fall of Cadia detachments and still need an Allied Detachment to fit the rest of your list.

 EnTyme wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:

 doctortom wrote:
It is a good point to make - until this thread I hadn't really thought about it.

It's even more of an issue for those new Fall of Cadia mega detachments that allow numerous Factions (8 or 9? for the Castellan one). If you take a wide variety of models in your Primary Detachment, you could potentially lock out 8-9+ Factions from taking Allied Detachments.

To be fair, though, you'd have to be doing some pretty serious min-maxing to use one of the Fall of Cadia detachments and still need an Allied Detachment to fit the rest of your list.

Have you met die hard, competitive 40k players? NOT min-maxing is basically giving up.