Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So me and my IG mate were discussing this the other night and we couldnt reach a conclusion. Was wondering if anyone knew anything from the lore that states either way? Is it forced conscription? I would imagine so considering how badly they treat guardsmen in general.

It's a wonder no one thinks to refuse to fight for the IoM and let it die.

Martel732 wrote:
It's a wonder no one thinks to refuse to fight for the IoM and let it die.

Don't think a conscientious objector would last long , imagine a death korp of kreig refusing to fight.

Get enough of them, maybe. Poorly treated outfits don't usually perform well.

For what it's worth, the Imperial life isn't likely to be quite as dark as the fluff tends to present it. Keep in mind that all the great battles you hear of with countless millions dying and planets being nuked from orbit happen over the course of several thousand years with the scope of an entire galaxy of worlds.

It's likely not unreasonable for a large portion of guardsmen to be shipped off for garrison/expansion/peace-keeping duty where they'd live some relatively mundane lives. Afterall, even the most inconsequential of worlds would require at least some Imperial presence to keep it in line. In such cases where they're not facing active duty, the guardsmen likely do receive some form of compensation or allowance with which to facilitate a modest standard of living, with the obvious caveat of being shipped to some far side of the galaxy away from any family they once had. That said, it wouldn't be surprising for forces in such a situation to even start families and settlements when not on active duty. Of course, there are going to be exceptions to this (for example, a soldier of the Death Korps of Krieg would likely be just as happy as he'd ever allow himself to be cuddling his shovel in a trench, and tend to be trained and deployed in a fashion that would almost exclusively encourage that, while Cadians lived with about as much security as one could expect when their neighbour is a literal gateway to hell).

And while the average guardsmen might look like easily disposable fodder from the perspective of the higher powers of the Imperium, it's still viewed as a position of great prestige amongst common classes. For most people, it'll be the highest and most honorable position that a common person could achieve. For all the glory that the Space Marines end up stealing, the Guard doesn't go unappreciated.

Marxist artist wrote:

Don't think a conscientious objector would last long , imagine a death korp of kreig refusing to fight.

Considering that they've been vat grown for a single purpose and are basically programmed from the day of their birth with a sense of fatalism, inherited guilt, and subservience to the point of autism, Krieg don't really ever reach a point where 'objection' could ever reasonably cross their mind.

In super nutritious* delicious** Departmento Munitorum approved food*** rations.


*As reported by 9 out of 10 Departmento Munitorum servitors.
**Taste likened to Flak armour. Personal responsible for comment, despite its truth, were summarily punished by their regimental commissar for slandering the Departmento Munitorum and under suspicion of misusing Departmento Munitorum equipment.
***Rations are indeed edible, the term food is generous

Glad to see humour is alive and well in the IoM

Raising guard regiments is part of the planet's tithe but it's up to then how they raise it. The troops are expected to be of excellent quality though so forced conscription would not make sense unless they had a terrific indoctrination & training program.

Some worlds breed soldiers for the guard, some have a tradition of military service, some recruit normally, some have their PDF regiments compete to be chosen for the guard.

As for pay - guard are sent directly to a combat zone, what would they spend it on? However we do know that if the planet is successfully subjugated then surviving guardsmen are given a quantity of land and allowed to retire.

 Scott-S6 wrote:

As for pay - guard are sent directly to a combat zone, what would they spend it on?

whores?

 SolarCross wrote:

 Scott-S6 wrote:

As for pay - guard are sent directly to a combat zone, what would they spend it on?

whores?

They pay for those with being shot in the head usually.

Certainly they do! They are paid with the honour of serving the Emperor of course. That is more than any Guardsman could ever hope to ask for.

In several of the Cain books, Guardsmen where giving "Thrones" to spend at local shops. This was a planet that was in the process having a deal with the tau. The guard didnt come in at full force to destroy the Tau, but as a backup/show of force during negotiations.

Don't forget they sometimes are allowed to settle planets, like old Roman Legionnaires.

There's no stronger currency than to die for the Emperor.

The Tanith are given a payroll, it's mentioned in Ghostmaker when they're on leave.

All depends on circumstances as follows:

-Penal Guardsmen: Certainly not
-Serving P.D.F forces: Yes as they are on home territory
-Particular Legions/forces: Yes, as some would have to pay for the up-keep of equipment.
-Conscripted Guardsmen: Should be, although if they are the last defence of their home planet/system it might not matter.

Personally I believe there is probably an insensitive bounty paid for joining/serving a contracted amount of time e.g. like current British Army Reserves, however if it is a case of you have no choice but to fight or everyone is killed by the tyranid hive fleet! Pay might not be feasible. I remember reading a good old B.L novel 'Fifteen Hours' about a young recruit stuck in the wrong war due to a Administratum mistake, and pay was mentioned in that for buying supplies from a Quarter Master. Interestingly in the 'Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer' there is no specific mention of pay, but there are regulations on punishment for selling supplies for money and gambling to make profit, so I presume there will always be some form of currency going round from Imperial Throne Gelt to rations and bullets.

At the end of the day you can debate it either way on the structure and circumstances of Guardsmen in different theatres, under different authorities etc. The imperium is a big place so there is bound to be variety on this issue.

I suspect it varies from regiment to regiment. some likely are told their pay is their glorious service to the emperor. others are likely not just paid but legally are mercenaries. I suspect another common approuch is a "company store" methodolgy where the guardsmen have most of their needs met by the regiment but are also given a "Regimental script" to spend on certain luxeries etc.

 ChazSexington wrote:
Don't forget they sometimes are allowed to settle planets, like old Roman Legionnaires.

I know this was the old fluff at the very least. At the end of the campaign, the regiments were given land, and the officers noble titles on the planet they just pacified.

I think it's safe to say they receive a small amount of money to spend on leisure products or personal items. If the universe is as dark and awful as we're lead to believe then service in the Imperial Guard is probably a step up for most - at least allowing them a place to sleep, shower, and eat (protein gels or whatever god-awful foodstuffs they have).

It's the same way in a large majority of countries on Earth right now. There is a reason that "most" enlisted soldiers come from poorer areas of any country - where the (admittedly meager) salary of a soldier is a heck of a step up.

I'd imagine in the Imperium the room and board, health care, etc. is the main draw (penal colonies and forced/pressed units excluded...). A few coins to spend on whores or the local market? Sure, an added bonus.

They almost certainly receive some sort of pay, whether in imperial currency, local currency, or scrip. It's simply more efficient to give them a paycheck and let them spend it as they see fit than give everybody the same stuff.

The fluff includes a couple of hints of this. Ratlings have been described as "black marketeers" and gamblers. In the old Shaffer's last chancers, one of the members had hacked his pay code, which implies, well, pay.

I'd guess that in practice, nearly all regiments provide some form of remuneration, with a black market quickly forming to convert the various forms of pay.

I suspect that it varies depending on regiment, but they likely all get spending money, at least enough to keep them out of trouble when off duty

I used to work on a fairly remote farm, and only went to town once or twice a month, you would be amazed at what a $100 will get you when your standards are low enough... "OMG!!! HOTDOGS!!!" I bet the average guardsman would be impressed equally easily at least, just saying

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
The Tanith are given a payroll, it's mentioned in Ghostmaker when they're on leave.

Same thing in guns of tanith novel. They describe the regiment as having camp followers and the soldiers are paying for services (food, entertainment, women) with imperial currency. I assume they have pay, plus I recall one of the punishments being half pay for Cuu

Guardsmen in Dark Heresy also get a set monthly stipend (much less than Enginseers and Priests, but still something).

EDIT:

Now that I'm home and can check, 50 Thrones a month for a Conscript, 55 for the average Guardsman, 65 for a Sergeant, 75 for a Lieutenant, 80 for a Captain, 85 for a Commander.

A box of lho-sticks costs 10 Thrones as does a bottle of Rotgut booze - so that pay can disappear pretty quick.

I reckon they'd get paid so they can care for their families (if they have any), and for themselves when they retire; don't forget that serving in the Imperial Guard is more than just an honour on most worlds, although as others have said, dying in the Emperor's name should be pay enough for a lot of Imperial loyalists

G.A

Giving land and titles seems like a pretty good payment to make. Not least of all because it isn't an upfront payment, so it serves to further motivate them I guess. They would need to fight well and survive be victorious.

But a very interesting thread. I never really thought of it till I read this. Haha

Like artists and web designers, they get paid in exposure*.

*to chaos, tyranids, plasma, molecular-blade shurikens, radiation, torture, pain, and a whole bunch of other things.

As mentioned in the Gaunt's Ghosts and Cain novels there are mentions of pay along with gambling and buying things so presumably it is money based pay.

There were also mentions of monthly alochol rations, iho-sticks so presumably pay would/could also include pleasure items.

 Unusual Suspect wrote:
Like artists and web designers, they get paid in exposure*.

*to chaos, tyranids, plasma, molecular-blade shurikens, radiation, torture, pain, and a whole bunch of other things.

Although in both cases, neither is particularly satisfying and both can kill.

They might not have pay in cash. You might have a allowence of slips or other form of non money pay you can hand in for extra recaf or amsac etc.

Not cash but you trade with qauter master for your x amount of requistion slips you get that month etc.

The pay system can vary greatly. I'd imagine most will get some sort of allowance (local currency or regimental scrip) to use when off-duty.

Though the funniest one might be the Jopall Indentured Regiments. Jopall is a corporate world where everyone is "company stored" - the ruling money men keep tabs on exactly how much you owe them for upkeep, health services and schooling on reaching adulthood. So you pay it off during your life, and one of the fastest best rates to pay is service in the Imperial Guard...