Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Ok guys, searched for a bit but couldn't find a direct answer to this doubt of mine: I understand it's possible to use a 30k army in a 40k game, but must I use the Age of Darkness FOC or can I use a CAD? If using a CAD, will my troop choices get ObjSec and everything else become scoring or do 30k limitations still apply?

Yes, why not? It's allready breaking the system when you fight Tau or Tyranids with a Crusade legion, so it woudn't hurt any more. But a CAD is inferior to the Age of Darkness in the number of slots, so I'd take the Age. Other than that you totaly can, but will be at a heavy disadvantage.

the answer is kinda tricky. Rules wise, yes you can play a 30K army in a 40K game. In fact, the HH rules books all have some sort of disclaimer to this, the most recent book (Legiones Astartes Crusade Army List states on page 8 "The Space Marine Legion Crusade Army list is intended for use in games of Warhammer 40,000, and principally in using the Battles in the Age of Darkness rules expansion originally found in the Books I-III and summarised in abstract here."

In fact, the HH series is classified as a "Warhammer 40,000 expansion" and not a separate game.

That being said, I'd highly recommend you have a rock solid reason to be playing using these rules though. There's several issues with playing a '30k list' in a standard 40K game, usually it has to do with having access to weapons and gear that Space Marines don't typically have. There's also said to be some 'balance' issues between the two, but I've not had a chance to actually play a 30k game yet, I can't speak to that.

It's fine, what you'll find typically is that your 30K army is at a bit of a disadvantage because of the point scaling, but you're on the same footing with a lot of older 40K books that weren't written in 7th ed.

Typically a 40K list can make good use of MSU where a 30K one normally can't (basic unit tax etc). Of course there are exceptions.

Most 30K armies make up for this with the exotic wargear and special rules, even if your force ends up being more ridged to fit a Right of War or something similar.

Yes you can but it wastes your benefit, if you use the AOD FOC then your troops have obsec and so does anything with implacable advance due to the HH FAQ.

90% of my 40k matches are played with my Taghmata, mainly because I find it fairer to use than my Skittles or Cult.
Also suits my play style better, but anyway;

As More Dakka said, you'd likely be on par with the older codices.
I've certainly struggled against 40k Marines and Elderp, although that's mainly on the premise that my "sandbags have a leak", as it were.

The Onslaught organisation chart is an absolute gods-end for me, though. Very handy only needing 1 compulsory slot.
However, there's definitely no mention of rerollable Warlord traits. [Rarely an issue, I find], but when looking at, say, the Ordo Reductor Matrix of Ruin, Tanks get ObSec in the enemy's deployment zone, which is a very nice 1+.

Ok, to get it straight: AoD FOC > CAD FOC. Even those special 30k FOC (like the armoured one) should get preference over CAD.
Scoring will be kept by Troops and units with Implacable Advance (which becomes ObjSec... non-Troops getting objectives better than Troops, lol)

Ravingbantha wrote:
That being said, I'd highly recommend you have a rock solid reason to be playing using these rules though. There's several issues with playing a '30k list' in a standard 40K game, usually it has to do with having access to weapons and gear that Space Marines don't typically have. There's also said to be some 'balance' issues between the two, but I've not had a chance to actually play a 30k game yet, I can't speak to that.

Well, the reason is pretty simple: everybody in my group plays 40k and only 2 guys have interested in playing 30k. With that in mind, I rather play with a Legion against everyone than just the other 2 (and one of them plays once a semester). Also, 30k TS were the reason I fell in love with the setting, so they'll be my primary army (which used to be Tau up to the last Friday, hehe). I understand Legions are weaker than some of the 40k armies, but my group is mostly casual.
Finally, I already have some fluff going in my head on why such battles are happening - so, that's covered. Probably a bit cheesy, but Rule of Cool trumps everything, right?

Indeed when it come to rule of cool, however if you use the AOD FOC you shouldnt have any problems. I run IW 30k and i never have any trouble against 40k armies unless we are playing under 1500 and to be honest i wouldnt play that low in a pick up game because its boring.
2k games are your best bet against 40k, once you start getting on to 3k your opponent may as well just give up most of the time if you brought anything even remotely powerful and often they will need formation benefits to stand a chance.

 King Amroth wrote:
Indeed when it come to rule of cool, however if you use the AOD FOC you shouldnt have any problems. I run IW 30k and i never have any trouble against 40k armies unless we are playing under 1500 and to be honest i wouldnt play that low in a pick up game because its boring.
2k games are your best bet against 40k, once you start getting on to 3k your opponent may as well just give up most of the time if you brought anything even remotely powerful and often they will need formation benefits to stand a chance.

We play 1850 games, mostly. At least 1500

You should be fine then.

Making use this thread for another question: Is there a way to add more than 3 ICs to an AoD army outside the FOC?

 Vector Strike wrote:
Making use this thread for another question: Is there a way to add more than 3 ICs to an AoD army outside the FOC?

40k allows multiple detachments, so you could talk with your oponent and simply treat the AoD as an other type of detachment. Then you can take 2 AoD, in most cases it'll be like taking 2 FOCs. But don't overspend on HQ the beauty of the Legiones list are the thinks you don't get in 40k - jetbikes, Sicarans, apothecaries and the older patterns like the Kheres assault canon.

 hordrak wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:
Making use this thread for another question: Is there a way to add more than 3 ICs to an AoD army outside the FOC?

40k allows multiple detachments, so you could talk with your oponent and simply treat the AoD as an other type of detachment. Then you can take 2 AoD, in most cases it'll be like taking 2 FOCs. But don't overspend on HQ the beauty of the Legiones list are the thinks you don't get in 40k - jetbikes, Sicarans, apothecaries and the older patterns like the Kheres assault canon.

You're correct; thought I'd be locked to 1 AoD in 40k as well, but lucky me I was wrong!
I just want to placate the -1Ld penalty for losing all our ICs...

Ah, about the Master of the Legion limitation: am I allowed 1 per FULL 1000p or each 1000p bracket? i.e. can I have 2 at 1500p?

Vector Strike wrote:Making use this thread for another question: Is there a way to add more than 3 ICs to an AoD army outside the FOC?

Use two Combined Arms Detachments, but you'd need to double your Troops over what you would normally need for 30k. With 30k troops being rather costly, this might be an issue.

Vector Strike wrote:

 hordrak wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:
Making use this thread for another question: Is there a way to add more than 3 ICs to an AoD army outside the FOC?

40k allows multiple detachments, so you could talk with your oponent and simply treat the AoD as an other type of detachment. Then you can take 2 AoD, in most cases it'll be like taking 2 FOCs. But don't overspend on HQ the beauty of the Legiones list are the thinks you don't get in 40k - jetbikes, Sicarans, apothecaries and the older patterns like the Kheres assault canon.

You're correct; thought I'd be locked to 1 AoD in 40k as well, but lucky me I was wrong!
I just want to placate the -1Ld penalty for losing all our ICs...

Ah, about the Master of the Legion limitation: am I allowed 1 per FULL 1000p or each 1000p bracket? i.e. can I have 2 at 1500p?

I think it's per full 1000, but I could be wrong.

While the rules say you cant have more than one detachment, its up to your opponent and if your not playing 30k they may not have a problem with that but i would say dont do it lol
As for master of the legion its 1 per 1k so 1999 gets you 1 MOO and 2000 gets you 2, however you can take a delegatus or a herald below 1k and to be honest for anything 2k or under they are my go to warlord.

I think it works better to have your opponent use the AoD FOC and not be allowed formations.

NivlacSupreme wrote:
I think it works better to have your opponent use the AoD FOC and not be allowed formations.

Eehh, won't happen. They love their formations and stuff. But we're in a pretty casual group.

 Vector Strike wrote:

NivlacSupreme wrote:
I think it works better to have your opponent use the AoD FOC and not be allowed formations.

Eehh, won't happen. They love their formations and stuff. But we're in a pretty casual group.

Admittedly I do play with somebody who has no idea what he's doing most of the time. He just started Tau.

I'm not going to tell him that the riptide exists.

I play Ordo Reductor and Taghmata in 40k-Games.
I just like this lists more than that torn apart, chaotic, half finished AdMechlist(s).

 King Amroth wrote:
While the rules say you cant have more than one detachment, its up to your opponent and if your not playing 30k they may not have a problem with that but i would say dont do it lol
As for master of the legion its 1 per 1k so 1999 gets you 1 MOO and 2000 gets you 2, however you can take a delegatus or a herald below 1k and to be honest for anything 2k or under they are my go to warlord.

What rules? The 30k ones? As they outright state you can take more than one detachment.

 Formosa wrote:

 King Amroth wrote:
While the rules say you cant have more than one detachment, its up to your opponent and if your not playing 30k they may not have a problem with that but i would say dont do it lol
As for master of the legion its 1 per 1k so 1999 gets you 1 MOO and 2000 gets you 2, however you can take a delegatus or a herald below 1k and to be honest for anything 2k or under they are my go to warlord.

What rules? The 30k ones? As they outright state you can take more than one detachment.

Yes the 30k rules which outright state what you are allowed to take on page 9 of the age of darkness army list.

If you're talking primary detachments, then yes:

Further advice on selecting your army and its composition can be found in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook. However, note that the Force Organisation charts presented here take precedence over that listed in the rulebook and, unlike the standard chart and battle missions found in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook, you may not take an additional Primary Detachment in games over 2,000 points unless specified by the particular mission (the expansion of the army being taken has already been taken into account in the Battles in the Age of Darkness charts), also Unbound armies and formations as presented elsewhere in Warhammer 40,000 7th edition are not used.

Obviously, there are secondary detachments like allied, LOW, and fortification detachments.

Forgeworld confirmed that the "detachment" is the army, you literally build your army using the one detachment which tells you what you can tack on.