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Every GK player i go to says "Crowe is Rubbish", yet when i look at his Stats etc, the only thing i can find bad about him is that fact that 2 Wounds Stings and his Warlord Trait is Meh

His Blade is Offset by Master Swordsman+Perfect Warrior and Hammerhand

What am i missing that makes him terrible?
Or is it just every other GK character is better than him?

 commander dante wrote:
Every GK player i go to says "Crowe is Rubbish", yet when i look at his Stats etc, the only thing i can find bad about him is that fact that 2 Wounds Stings and his Warlord Trait is Meh

His Blade is Offset by Master Swordsman+Perfect Warrior and Hammerhand

What am i missing that makes him terrible?
Or is it just every other GK character is better than him?

Well the problem is that the master swordsman rule only comes into effect during a challenge...which an opponent can refuse to do, meaning that for all of Crowe's stats, he only does S6 AP- damage at best if hammerhand goes off. He even misses out on being able to use force since he doesn't have a force weapon.

For 175 points, that is insanely overpriced and he really adds nothing to a GK army (i.e. like he used to by making purifiers troops) and is easily outdone by the force multipliers that are GK Librarians.

 Grimskul wrote:

 commander dante wrote:
Every GK player i go to says "Crowe is Rubbish", yet when i look at his Stats etc, the only thing i can find bad about him is that fact that 2 Wounds Stings and his Warlord Trait is Meh

His Blade is Offset by Master Swordsman+Perfect Warrior and Hammerhand

What am i missing that makes him terrible?
Or is it just every other GK character is better than him?

Well the problem is that the master swordsman rule only comes into effect during a challenge...which an opponent can refuse to do, meaning that for all of Crowe's stats, he only does S6 AP- damage at best if hammerhand goes off. He even misses out on being able to use force since he doesn't have a force weapon.

For 175 points, that is insanely overpriced and he really adds nothing to a GK army (i.e. like he used to by making purifiers troops) and is easily outdone by the force multipliers that are GK Librarians.

I can see the point behind refusing a challenge, but wouldnt S6 AP- still be effective vs Hordes? (E.G A Company Commander or Ork Nob refuses the challenge)

Or would he be effective in "Character Cleanup"? (I.E Single out characters from Squads as they HAVE to Accept a Challenge)
Im also guessing he is a god in Herohammer

Sure, it could be effective against hoards. If he had enough attacks (can't remember his number). But why would you do that when you could take something else with a force halberd for cheaper? Against 3+, or even 4+, armor only 1/3 to 1/2 of his wounds go through, vs characters that would have all of them go through. He's cool, but not useful with AP-.

 Grimskul wrote:
...(i.e. like he used to by making purifiers troops)...

For some reason I thought he still did...

But yes, an unupgraded Librarian does every single thing Crowe does better, except fight in challenges, get in Rhinos, and fire storm bolters. You could go on for days about how Crowe does terrifying murder in challenges, but that isn't particularly relevant 95-98% of the time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 troa wrote:
Sure, it could be effective against hoards. If he had enough attacks (can't remember his number)...

Three. But if that's what you want him for you could spend 25pts less on a Captain with a melee weapon with an AP value, the same number of attacks, and an extra wound.

 commander dante wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

 commander dante wrote:
Every GK player i go to says "Crowe is Rubbish", yet when i look at his Stats etc, the only thing i can find bad about him is that fact that 2 Wounds Stings and his Warlord Trait is Meh

His Blade is Offset by Master Swordsman+Perfect Warrior and Hammerhand

What am i missing that makes him terrible?
Or is it just every other GK character is better than him?

Well the problem is that the master swordsman rule only comes into effect during a challenge...which an opponent can refuse to do, meaning that for all of Crowe's stats, he only does S6 AP- damage at best if hammerhand goes off. He even misses out on being able to use force since he doesn't have a force weapon.

For 175 points, that is insanely overpriced and he really adds nothing to a GK army (i.e. like he used to by making purifiers troops) and is easily outdone by the force multipliers that are GK Librarians.

I can see the point behind refusing a challenge, but wouldnt S6 AP- still be effective vs Hordes? (E.G A Company Commander or Ork Nob refuses the challenge)

Or would he be effective in "Character Cleanup"? (I.E Single out characters from Squads as they HAVE to Accept a Challenge)
Im also guessing he is a god in Herohammer

The worst part is that even in challenges he isn't really exceptional since his damage output is middling (again you're banking on hammerhand going off, which isn't always guaranteed) which if it doesn't, he only has S4 AP2 attacks and while the re-roll saving throws is nice, with only 2W and a 4+ invuln. and no eternal warrior he can get punked pretty easily by any tooled up combat HQ. Not having Force to disable any FNP from opposing models or letting his higher than average initiative attacks insta-kill before they attack back means that Crowe isn't even a top tier challenger considering his price. A Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf, Smashfether, etc, all bring more resilience and damage to the table compared to Crowe while also having the retinue and mobility needed to make a true scary unit. What unit does Crowe want to be in? Purifiers? He doesn't fit well with Termies since he can't deep strike with them and putting him with them in a Land Raider is a pretty big pointsink.

There are plenty of better things in the Grey Knight book to spend those 175 points. He's overcosted and competes against better choices in his own codex.

 troa wrote:
Sure, it could be effective against hoards. If he had enough attacks (can't remember his number). But why would you do that when you could take something else with a force halberd for cheaper? Against 3+, or even 4+, armor only 1/3 to 1/2 of his wounds go through, vs characters that would have all of them go through. He's cool, but not useful with AP-.

In challenges he has smash, you'd do well to remember that, so against characters he's not hitting at ap-. That being said, he's still, like 90% of the codex, paying a prohibitive premium for rules that are at best "circumstantial" in the sense that they have fringe circumstances where they are helpful. Like seriously, do you really need to pay 175 points in order to beat a space marine Sargent in CC? Unless your meleeing a named character or HQ character he's gonna do as good as a normal purifier.

 Jaxler wrote:
...In challenges...

In challenges he's great. But unless you're playing against the Space Marine Legion list you're never going to get into a challenge you care that much about.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Jaxler wrote:
...In challenges...

In challenges he's great. But unless you're playing against the Space Marine Legion list you're never going to get into a challenge you care that much about.

I also in my post acknowledged his rules are fringe and generally unhelpful. That being said he's not ap - against characters like was claimed before.

 Jaxler wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Jaxler wrote:
...In challenges...

In challenges he's great. But unless you're playing against the Space Marine Legion list you're never going to get into a challenge you care that much about.

I also in my post acknowledged his rules are fringe and generally unhelpful. That being said he's not ap - against characters like was claimed before.

He is if they refuse the challenge. Honestly. Get him stuck in to a one-on-one duel with any character with a decent armour save, they can just refuse the challenge and tank him until doomsday.

Can't refuse when alone

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Jaxler wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Jaxler wrote:
...In challenges...

In challenges he's great. But unless you're playing against the Space Marine Legion list you're never going to get into a challenge you care that much about.

I also in my post acknowledged his rules are fringe and generally unhelpful. That being said he's not ap - against characters like was claimed before.

He is if they refuse the challenge. Honestly. Get him stuck in to a one-on-one duel with any character with a decent armour save, they can just refuse the challenge and tank him until doomsday.

Can't refuse if alone, and also if a powerful character refuses, they basically let you pick apart their unit with yours whilst Mr invuln sits in the corner. This sounds pretty good to me. also tanking until turn 7 doesn't tend to work well when they're eating a squad of termies with instadeath and Crowe. Also being unable to refuse if alone puts a damper on any plans of circumventing smash.