Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I've been sitting on a bunch of Tyranids monsters. I'm afraid to put them together in case they come out with a new codex and give Tyranids a Decurion, and update the rules.

I'm out of the loop...is a Tyranids Decurion-style codex on GW's radar?

No new rumours about tyranids anywhere soon.

But carrful what you wish for, knowing GW idea of armies composition Nid Decurion may make the Green Tide look like a small troop formation.

Tyranids need some help. Maybe a good rule in the meantime is if you're playing with Tyranids, you get to play with double points. And I think they'd still be gak compared to the power that's out there these days.

Nids are bad. They are not THAT bad.

When you play Nids with no FMCs:
* your army can be defeated by tactical squads with flamers and missile launchers
* your close combat monsters lose to possessed
* you lose half your troops each other turn after losing your hq
* the only way to kill heavy vehicle armor outside of melee is a psychic power
* your only ignore cover weapons are flamers on units moving 6" a turn
* your basic troops ranged weapons are worse than lasguns

Brood of Carnifexes gets bent over and proverbially by a unit of Wolf Guard if one model has a pair of Wolf Claws.

No news on the horizon. I would be stunned if there was a codex before 8th edition (especially given that there actually are rumors about 8th coming up).

Nids got that release of new models a few months into 7th edition. Along with formations in various supplements.
Probably those were seen as taking the place of a 7th ed codex.

They were building on a poor foundation though. It's a shame the 6th edition codex was so bad.
A thinly disguised copy-paste of the already poorly received 5th edition codex. With a bunch of units and special rules removed, and a few useless junk options thrown in, such as tail weapons.

When that codex came out was the closest I've come to quitting the hobby.

I think they do, but I have no facts to prove it nor any idea how strong this decurion would be. Orks and IG got theirs, but no one is using those.

I had a rumor from my flgs that GW was actively writing the new nid dex with 8th in mind. I have no way to confirm this, which is why i never bothered with the news and rumor thread.

Based on the other rumor that one of the up-coming story campaigns would be a conclusion/advancement of the ork/nid conflict I assume the nid dex will release about the time that story drops.

This is good. I don't want SitW and gak to get updated to 7ths rules if it's just going to change in 8th. The sooner 8th drops the sooner we can see how a nid dex might start to look.

For me the saddest part of Tyranids is....

They are meant to be THE MC/GC army. No vehicles whatsoever so these unit types are meant to be their compensation. As it stands?

They have some of the weakest and most expensive MCs in the game. And their FW only GCs are for the most part a pile of utter gak.

They're outperformed by Tau and Eldar on the MC/GC front. And that's just sad, because those armies ALSO have plentiful access to vehicles.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
For me the saddest part of Tyranids is....

They are meant to be THE MC/GC army. No vehicles whatsoever so these unit types are meant to be their compensation. As it stands?

They have some of the weakest and most expensive MCs in the game. And their FW only GCs are for the most part a pile of utter gak.

They're outperformed by Tau and Eldar on the MC/GC front. And that's just sad, because those armies ALSO have plentiful access to vehicles.

They are not alone in this. Imperial Guard used to be the big shooting faction. Tau demolish IG in a shoot-out. SM do mechanised far better and for some reason have superior super-heavies. Eldar transports outclass IG MBTs.

Nids suffer from having 1 bad book after another.
About the only thing they could do to further wreck them is turn the MCs into AV lol.

Our GMCs need a severe points change.
I'd even push for the hierophant to gain strength D.
Currently your paying 1k for something about as survivable as a WK.
The Harridan fairs a bit better being a FGC.
That's mainly due to most strength D being blasts though, so for the most part it's not dying to 1 shot.

The hierodules are again over costed and die pretty easily.




IMO, there's a few fixes that will help.


1: give back EW to nids in synapse range.
This prevents all mid size nids getting nailed by a single missile and makes them viable again.

2: points drops on most things are needed badly.
Either raise the stats or drop the points on most MCs are most of them are hugely over priced for what you get.

3: bring back the armoured she'll upgrade.
Being able to have a 2+ really helps out when your pushing the enemy.
Why a backfield beast like the Tfex has it but the Cfex doesn't is beyond me.



We don't need a decurion style template.
Just a few changes that make current models viable in a list.

As for the pyrovore, make it a biovore.
Just give them back the option of different mines again.

Lord Perversor wrote:
No new rumours about tyranids anywhere soon.

But carrful what you wish for, knowing GW idea of armies composition Nid Decurion may make the Green Tide look like a small troop formation.

Denidicron bonus: no synapse required, 6+ cover save in the open (not stealth or shrouded as that would be useful and stack in actual cover (also written clumsily enough that it could be argued that they always count as having a 6+ cover save even if they were able to gain a 4+ normally (expect nigh weekly YMDC threads with no FAQ in sight))).
HQ:
Infiltrators: 4-6 Lictors. Look out sir saves caused by this formation suffer a -2 if an independent character and -4 if just a character, effects are not cumulative.
Brain Bugs: 6-9 Zoanthropes. Each model is an individual unit (character) and generate an additional warp charge each, which may only be used on Siphon.
Hive mind representatives: Tyranid Prime, Winged Hive Tyrant, Hive Guard. All units must be equipped without ranged weaponry, but gain rage and zealot. The Prime must be your warlord and has the trait Mind Eater.

Core formations:
Swarm: 10-20 units of any type of gaunt with 8-10 units of rippers. Have to have no upgrades but gain send in the next wave, however counting as a KP each time they're wiped out. Moves an additional d3 in the movement phase (roll before movement and add the result)
Carnifexen: 3-6 units of 3 Carnifex. Gain preferred enemy (vehicles and buildings), tank hunter and chitinous hide (4+ fnp which is worsened by 1 each time it is failed, and yes for the entire unit forcing each save to be rolled one at a time).

Aux:
Warriors of the Swarm: 10 units of warriors, Tyranid Prime. Must be at maximum models per unit and must all be equiped with as many boneswords as possible and gain the ability to run after shooting.
Flying Swarm: 10-20 units of gargoyles and 8-10 units of Shrikes. Gain the ability to jink at 5+, but cannot charge, run or shoot the turn they do so.
Hive Fleet Swarm: 20+ units in any combination of any model in the codex, not represented in the HQ section or a monstrous creature. Gains +2 to look out sir rolls and Hit and Run.
Monsterous Swarm: 15+ units in any combination of any monstrous creature in the codex. Gains tank hunter and fleet.



Obviously I just made all that crap up, but it needs to be mentioned still.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Nids are bad. They are not THAT bad.

Before the Decurion power template became the norm, I might agree with you. But now I really think they are that bad. Others on this thread have elucidated as to why better than I could.

They just suck, and although they've always been bad since the most recent codex, the insane levels of power these Decurions are unleashing is making them a whole lot worse. Hence the double-points handicap I recommended.

FWIW the sole use of my Tyranids army has become to give a brand new player an easy army to play against and to learn the game against. They are like a tutorial for players in a video game before they play the real game.

They are bad, but as stated, not that bad.

If your running a strict twin flyrant build then it becomes more than just average too.
Seen them place in the top 10 quite a few times recently.

Granted they aren't in the top 5, but that's reserved for tau, eldar and gladius.

 Jackal wrote:
They are bad, but as stated, not that bad.

If your running a strict twin flyrant build then it becomes more than just average too.
Seen them place in the top 10 quite a few times recently.

I agree they become a bit better with the Flyrant spam...I won't say they become good, because if an opponent bring sufficient anti-air, the gig is up.

In any case, it's SOOOOO boring playing with and against Flyrant spam... Wouldn't it be great to have multiple builds in order to even have a slim chance of competing?

As someone with over 60 tyranid warriors I'd love for it to be viable to run them like I used to.
But the threat of S8+ weapons is too much lol.

The simple eternal warrior synapse rule like it used to be would remedy this.

 Jackal wrote:
As someone with over 60 tyranid warriors I'd love for it to be viable to run them like I used to.
But the threat of S8+ weapons is too much lol.

The simple eternal warrior synapse rule like it used to be would remedy this.

Honestly I think synapse is a fun and fluffy idea in principle, but it just doesn't work on the board especially with the new power-codices out there.

I can't think of a single codex whose primary faction rules actually cripple the army. Perhaps the requirement that CSM characters must issue challenges is bad, but nowhere near as bad as Synapse works on the board. IMO, faction rules should work in favor of the faction, and not against it.

So I'd be happy to see synapse just go away, or maybe synapse should nothing but good things to units within synapse range, and no detrimental consequences at all for being outside of range.

Of they ran back to how it used to be then it would be fine.
Currently a unit of devs with 4 missiles will kill 3 warriors per turn on average.

9 wounds gone straight away.
A battle cannon can simply remove a whole unit at a time.

Used to love my midzilla list as well.



Being able to pod down warriors that are a bit tougher would be amazing.
Failing that, give em T5.
They are huge armoured creatures, yet only have the same stats as a marine with more wounds and worse armour.
While costing a lot more and lowered stats in other places.

Yeah, I always thought Tyranids Warriors should be at T5 just due to the size of the models.

Lance845 wrote:I had a rumor from my flgs that GW was actively writing the new nid dex with 8th in mind. I have no way to confirm this, which is why i never bothered with the news and rumor thread.

Based on the other rumor that one of the up-coming story campaigns would be a conclusion/advancement of the ork/nid conflict I assume the nid dex will release about the time that story drops.

This is good. I don't want SitW and gak to get updated to 7ths rules if it's just going to change in 8th. The sooner 8th drops the sooner we can see how a nid dex might start to look.

I don't want to see this again. I rather wait till 8th drops. the 5th edition codex was suppose to have 6th edition in mind and we all know how that turned out to be. Then we just got something just as bland and boring with 6th edition.

I don't want over powered I just want fun. I don't want to feel like I am playing poker with the Aces, Kings, Queens, and Jacks taken out of my cards. While I can still win, it's just much more harder. Here is hoping 8th edition will actually be balanced and more fun.

I am waiting before I tough my minis now. Unless I magnetize I will not touch them. Thing is, I am not in a mood to magnetize anymore so all my 40K army projects are on hold now till we know what 8th edition brings.

Nids, poor poor Nids.
Decurion or some other wtf formation isnt going to fix them.

Total codex re-write is about all that will.....

Given that no nid plans are on the radar for the foreseeable future, I doubt nids will get a Decurion before 8th edition, at which point they might just decide to come out with a whole new codex (and unlike most other factions Nids desperately need a new codex. Even if no rule tweaks are present, Nid rules are scattered across almost a dozen different books and publications, so they need to at least consolidate everything).

EDIT: However there might be a chance if Nids are somehow tangentially related in the third Gathering the Storm book.

Ratius wrote:Nids, poor poor Nids.
Decurion or some other wtf formation isnt going to fix them.

Total codex re-write is about all that will.....

No, not true. Just keep Robin Cruddace away and all should be well.