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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/13 17:56:18
Subject: Soulburst and Transport.
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Tough Traitorous Guardsman
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This might be a somewhat stupid question but I just want to make sure to get things a 100% correct.
Say a transport dies can the unit inside then do a Soulburst?
Can a unit do a Soulburst if they are inside a transport when a unit die within 7"?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/13 18:16:17
Subject: Soulburst and Transport.
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Rampaging Carnifex
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I would say no to both questions. For so many other rules interactions, units inside transports act as if they aren't even on the battlefield - with shooting from open-topped transports being the exception.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/13 18:25:55
Subject: Soulburst and Transport.
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Omnipotent Necron Overlord
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I want to say yes but I'm pretty sure the answer is no. ^ above is my exact reasoning^
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If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/13 18:36:06
Subject: Soulburst and Transport.
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Tough Traitorous Guardsman
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Yeah thats sounds reasonable.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/13 18:38:07
Subject: Soulburst and Transport.
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Powerful Phoenix Lord
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A unit inside a transport definitely cannot Soulburst due to it not technically being on the board.
But if its transport is the unit that dies, that is a trickier one, but one we can answer with some logic.
It the vehicle is merely Wrecked, then it counts as destroyed before the unit disembarks, therefore no Soulburst.
If the vehicle Explodes, it remains on the table until the unit disembarks. However, I don't think they get Soulburst here either because they are also not hit by the debris that hits units within D6"
To argue that they would get a Soulburst, would also mean they were on the table and vulnerable to the Explode damage (in addition to the normal hits they take for being in the transport)
Since clearly no Eldar (and especially no Dark Eldar) player wants to get hit twice from their exploding transport, we can agree that no Soulburst happens.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/13 19:16:48
Subject: Soulburst and Transport.
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Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran
Ankh Morpork
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The FAQ has made clear that embarked units are not on the table and do not interact with other units on the table unless explicitly stated to do so.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/13 19:21:31
Subject: Soulburst and Transport.
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Been Around the Block
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Galef wrote:
It the vehicle is merely Wrecked, then it counts as destroyed before the unit disembarks, therefore no Soulburst.
If the vehicle Explodes, it remains on the table until the unit disembarks. However, I don't think they get Soulburst here either because they are also not hit by the debris that hits units within D6"
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Isn't it actually the opposite? When a vehicle is Wrecked, the unit onboard must "immediately" disembark. The BRB stipulates that first the disembarkation happens, then a pinning test is taken, THEN the vehicle is wrecked. If this order is true, the unit will have disembarked before the vehicle was "Wrecked", therefore the unit that was inside is now on the table?
With Explodes, the placing of the models where the vehicle used to be (after suffering some damage/attacks, and then they take a pinning test. Doesn't seem to state an "immediate" action here though, frustratingly.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/13 19:50:37
Subject: Soulburst and Transport.
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Powerful Phoenix Lord
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Warhanna wrote: Galef wrote:
It the vehicle is merely Wrecked, then it counts as destroyed before the unit disembarks, therefore no Soulburst.
If the vehicle Explodes, it remains on the table until the unit disembarks. However, I don't think they get Soulburst here either because they are also not hit by the debris that hits units within D6"
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Isn't it actually the opposite? When a vehicle is Wrecked, the unit onboard must "immediately" disembark. The BRB stipulates that first the disembarkation happens, then a pinning test is taken, THEN the vehicle is wrecked. If this order is true, the unit will have disembarked before the vehicle was "Wrecked", therefore the unit that was inside is now on the table?
With Explodes, the placing of the models where the vehicle used to be (after suffering some damage/attacks, and then they take a pinning test. Doesn't seem to state an "immediate" action here though, frustratingly.
Hmm. Good point. I must have been thinking of an older edition where you measure from the transport, even though it is counting as terrain.
If it does say that the vehicle counts as destroyed AFTER the unit disembarks, then the unit can clearly Soulburst sine it was on the board when the unit was destroyed.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/13 20:22:36
Subject: Soulburst and Transport.
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Been Around the Block
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Not while they are in the transport, or when it explodes. But if its wrecked the unit gets out before its wrecked as per the rule so yeah.
Deepstrike raiders full of wraithguard against interceptor tau, and let the fun unfurl
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/13 21:04:27
Subject: Soulburst and Transport.
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Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran
Ankh Morpork
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We're also told a vehicle is destroyed when it is Wrecked, and it is the Wrecked result which causes the effect on the passengers to disembark. From memory the wording is, "After this the vehicle becomes a wreck" rather than being Wrecked after the passengers disembark.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/13 21:09:15
Subject: Soulburst and Transport.
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Been Around the Block
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The wording:
Wrecked (other than Zooming Flyers). The passengers must immediately
disembark in the usual manner, save that they must end their move wholly within 3" of
the vehicle, rather than 6". [Stuff about emergency disembark].
The unit must
then take a Pinning test. After this, the vehicle becomes a wreck.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/13 22:04:25
Subject: Soulburst and Transport.
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Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran
Ankh Morpork
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I think necessarily there must be a difference between "becomes a wreck" and the Wrecked result. The Wrecked effect of damage on passengers cannot be triggered without first the Wrecked result.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/13 22:11:07
Subject: Soulburst and Transport.
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Been Around the Block
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Mr. Shine wrote:I think necessarily there must be a difference between "becomes a wreck" and the Wrecked result. The Wrecked effect of damage on passengers cannot be triggered without first the Wrecked result.
Yes, for the vehicle to be wrecked it must first be reduced to zero hull points. A vehicle that isn't a transport vehicle is simple here, we're done. A transport vehicle with units embarked on it seems to have extra steps before you count it as wrecked.
There's another thing. Both Soulburst and the disembarkation happen "immediately". The BRB says if two things that happen " immediately " occur simultaneously, the player whose turn it is decides the order.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/13 22:22:02
Subject: Soulburst and Transport.
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Powerful Phoenix Lord
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Warhanna wrote:
There's another thing. Both Soulburst and the disembarkation happen "immediately". The BRB says if two things that happen " immediately " occur simultaneously, the player whose turn it is decides the order.
Which is bad because it means the opponent will Wreck the transport and say that Soulburst must resolve first, thereby making it not happen at all (because the unit isn't on the board)
You would have to argue that Soulburst isn't "triggered" until you resolved the disembarkation and THEN count the vehicle as destroyed, meaning that both rules no longer happen simultaneously.
The normal progression for Wrecking a vehicle would be this:
Step 1: Vehicle is reduced to 0 HPs
Step 2: Vehicle is now a wreck and counts as destroyed
But for a transport we have this:
Step 1: Vehicle is reduced to 0 HPs
Step 1a: Immediately disembark
Step 2: Vehicle is now a wreck and counts as destroyed
Step 3: Soulburst
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/13 22:24:39
Subject: Soulburst and Transport.
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Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran
Ankh Morpork
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We're told when a vehicle is Wrecked it is destroyed.
It must be Wrecked before you can consider the Wrecked effect of damage on passengers result, otherwise it's the chicken before the egg.
Necessarily then it must be destroyed the unit disembarks, after which point it "becomes a wreck" (which is clearly different from being Wrecked).
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/13 22:43:32
Subject: Soulburst and Transport.
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Been Around the Block
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What you say makes sense. The wording could be a lot more helpful than it is.
For the strength from Death rule to trigger, the wording is 'whenever'. As in 'whenever' a unit dies. The Soulburst action, which is allowed by the Strength from death rule, is what takes place immediately. An immediate move, an immediate shot/run, or an immediate charge.
When in all this does the transport become wrecked, and when in all this does the unit disembark?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/13 23:20:40
Subject: Soulburst and Transport.
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Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran
Ankh Morpork
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'Wrecked Vehicles' tells us:
"A vehicle that is reduced to 0 Hull Points is Wrecked. A Wrecked vehicle is destroyed."
That suggests it becomes Wrecked when it is reduced to 0 Hull Points.
And again, it stands to reason you cannot refer to the effect of Wrecked on passengers if the vehicle has not yet been Wrecked.
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