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So far the two end times books have felt surprisingly hopeful. The first one didn't go great for the IOM but they gave as good as they got for most of it and the second ends on a down right victory for the forces of order. I know we have a book to go but this feels almost like chaos is gonna lose this round.

Hound of War28 wrote:
So far the two end times books have felt surprisingly hopeful. The first one didn't go great for the IOM but they gave as good as they got for most of it and the second ends on a down right victory for the forces of order. I know we have a book to go but this feels almost like chaos is gonna lose this round.

The books so far aren't the "Time of Ending" in and of itself, but are the Gathering of the Storm. Even the Storm, when or if we ever get to it, is not necessarily the Time of Ending, but more akin to a sign of the impending Time of Ending (and not a necessary one, at that - it is a potential vector of the End, not a necessity thereof).

Feel free to carry around an umbrella if it makes you feel safer, but there is little to suggest the sky is actually falling.

Well it probably feel like chaos will lose next round because ultimately chaos always loses in the end in 40k. So it's no big surprise.

The War in Heaven ended in chaos winning, the Horus Heresy ended in the Emperor dead and his attempts to squash the influence of chaos on real space defeated and the 40k years since then hasn't seen much in the way of concrete wins against chaos, just pushing back raids with horrendous losses.

I mean, chaos hasn't "won" in the sense that the universe hasn't been reduced to an infinite horrible hellscape but I wouldn't call anything it's done a failure either.

Mechanically they have followed the same formula.

 Badablack wrote:
The War in Heaven ended in chaos winning, the Horus Heresy ended in the Emperor dead and his attempts to squash the influence of chaos on real space defeated and the 40k years since then hasn't seen much in the way of concrete wins against chaos, just pushing back raids with horrendous losses.

I mean, chaos hasn't "won" in the sense that the universe hasn't been reduced to an infinite horrible hellscape but I wouldn't call anything it's done a failure either.

There have only been two War in Heavans, the first was the Necrontyre and C'tan vs The Old Ones, the second was a mythalogical civil war involving the Eldar gods. Neither of them had anything to do with Chaos, and in fact pre dates all 4 of the Chaos gods existence.

There is no time of ending at all.

What's happening is that they're moving the fluff again, that's all.

morgoth wrote:
What's happening is that they're moving the fluff again, that's all.

And a few more models, while negating some others (Eldar Avatar, etc).

I get the vibe that Gathering Storm isn't an "End Times" style set of scenarios but more a restructuring of 40K with the introduction of some major new characters that may end up having a large part in shaping 40K to come... not to mention detachments and formations that bring together factions that have not been together for hundreds of years.

SG

Oh this thread again.

Its not the end times, GW has said multiple times, this is not an end times equivalent story. Its just pushing the ball and getting the story rolling again. To do that, some things need to happen, heros need to die and new ones take their place or old ones.

 Skinnereal wrote:

morgoth wrote:
What's happening is that they're moving the fluff again, that's all.

And a few more models, while negating some others (Eldar Avatar, etc).

The new better Avatar doesn't negate the old model. I suspect it'll still have rules in 8th (and even if not, the old model can still be used as an Avatar of Ynnead worst case).

Abaddon will die. Abaddon ascended will come forth along side Mortarion and Fulgrim.

The Lion and the Wolf will come forth on their tales. Vulkan will come forth at some point and have his own primarch to fight against

Not the End Times?

LOL, Cadia blew up, and Abaddon won his 13th Crusade. The Eldar just sacrificed an entire Craftworld to bring about the birth of a god of Death that's supposed to somehow give them hope (hope for a clean death maybe and not have their souls Hoover'd up by Slannish). Warp Portals have popped up all over the Galaxy and the Eye of Terror is growing...

Maybe the Galaxy won't explode, but it will certainly burn.

I think they point is "rules wise" it isn´t a fantasy END TIMES reset.

How many chaos space marines are left? I feel like without constant recruitment their numbers would dwindle rapidly, especially after 13 crusades.

 Marmatag wrote:
How many chaos space marines are left? I feel like without constant recruitment their numbers would dwindle rapidly, especially after 13 crusades.

Yes but you must remember each Chaos Legion originally consisted of around 10 chapters worth of Space Marines, with whole reserve Chapters of scouts, human infantry, mechanised infantry, artillery (light, medium, heavy, mixed) and tank regiments (light, medium, heavy and mixed). They also had great amounts of other Auxiliary units for their fleets. Yes they have suffered considerable losses from the retreat to the Eye, failed black crusades, and internal splintering etc but they are still a huge force to be reckoned with.

A rough estimate if you hypothesise that the majority of the 8 traitor legions are still in the Eye of Terror with losses backed up by post Heresy recruitment and other Chapter corruptions whole and ad hoc, the Imperium is probably facing anywhere from 35,000 - 100,000 Chaos Space Marines (my conservative guestimate) backed by mixed quality human Auxiliary support units and a Chaos fleet which may only be 50-75% the size of Heresy era combination, but in one strike grossly outnumbers the Imperial Fleet pickets.

The Imperium may have a never ending tide of Imperial Guard to throw at them and has roughly 1000 Chapters in action (Tell me if I am wrong) which is 1,000,000 loyal space marines, however they are split up per 1000 fighting on all fronts. Certainly the Imperium still has the power to stop Chaos, its just whether or not they get a chance to throw everything all in rather than piece meal.

To put it in to Historic terms 40k is either entering its Gettysburg battle whereby Chaos will be worn down by loyalist reinforcements or a Battle of the Bulge whereby the Chaos forces outstretch their supplies, but the Imperial forces are well stocked to push them back etc.

What do you think of my evaluation? Please tell me if I am completely wrong or something lore wise - I don't know everything!

 Tamwulf wrote:
Not the End Times?

LOL, Cadia blew up, and Abaddon won his 13th Crusade. The Eldar just sacrificed an entire Craftworld to bring about the birth of a god of Death that's supposed to somehow give them hope (hope for a clean death maybe and not have their souls Hoover'd up by Slannish). Warp Portals have popped up all over the Galaxy and the Eye of Terror is growing...

Maybe the Galaxy won't explode, but it will certainly burn.

It wasn't sacrificed, just split up.

Who's to say the Times of Ending aren't talking about Chaos ending anyway