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Remind me to proofread immediately after posting when I'm mobile. Just read that post of mine for the first time since I typed it up and autocorrect makes me have no clue on half of what I wrote :(

Previous post edited to make it legible. Sorry about that.

Who used to run the Canoness Clown Car, and has it been tried post CA18?

 MacPhail wrote:
Who used to run the Canoness Clown Car, and has it been tried post CA18?

Can you elaborate?

 pretre wrote:

 MacPhail wrote:
Who used to run the Canoness Clown Car, and has it been tried post CA18?

Can you elaborate?

Somebody on here used to pack a Rhino with Canoni and fling at the enemy... as I recall it wasn't just a gimmick, it actually worked thanks to the BoA and the old AoFs.

So, this weekend I may be playing against Orks. This will be my first official spin with the beta codex, and my first game against the Ork codex, so I think it will be fair to say that I will have NO idea what I'm doing.

That being said, here's what I'm planning on running:



If I had Penitent Engines assembled, I would use them. That being said, I have no idea how I'm going to round out my points. Maybe another Canoness, for the extra rerolls, or boosting the numbers for the Seraphim or Rets, or throwing some power weapons in there?

Also, a much more burning question: what tips do you have for the new Sisters vs the Greenskins? Off the top of my head, here's what I'm thinking:
-Concentrate on fast stuff first-- kill Warbikes, Buggies, Trukks, etc before they can reach my lines
-Focus on shooty stuff second-- thinks like Lootas, Mek Gunz, etc, that can harm my transports
-Use mobility to focus firepower on their big mobs where possible
-Keep stuff ready for countercharges
-Send Celestine off to assassinate things like Meks, Painboyz, etc

At least that's what I'm thinking. Anyone who has fought the Orks, please give me some idea of how to handle them.

As for the wall of text above, you have your CP wrong. The only detachments that reward more than 1CP are battalions, brigades and the min-three LoW super heavy detachment.

Wow- shows you how infrequently I get to actually play; I just double checked, and you're right. I must have looked a hundred times, and somehow, I always saw 3. What a drag- now the discrepency between between battalion/ brigade and all the other detachments is worse than I thought it was.

What the hell GW? I thought the point of providing detachments was so that people could organized their models into interesting battlegroups to reflect not only the published army background, but also your own unique army within the larger faction. Given these CP values, either you play Dark Eldar (because patrol detachments for them actually matter), or you MUST take a brigade or at least a double battalion in order to even play a battle forged army.

Gee, I guess I'll just have to build the exact same army that everyone else has. Actually, I'll have to build three of them- a sisters of battle army that contains a brigade just like every other sisters of battle army, a daemons of slaanesh army that contains a brigade just like every other Slaanesh army and a genestealer cult army that contains a brigade just like every other genestealer cult army. How interesting!

Furthermore, the only way I can include Ministorum units is to put them into detachments with sisters, which invalidates my entire concept. My sisters (with the exception of the Repentia) are too pure to sully themselves by including non sisters in their detachments- that's why the emperor answers our battle field prayers! Being in the same army is fine, but command flows from the warlord to the leaders of each detachment, and from them to the soldiers.

People will say that this is a plan to make us buy more models (and of course they're right), but it's a stupid system, because it doesn't work. I have to buy just as many models to field a brigade, a vanguard, and outrider and a spearhead as I do to feel a boring, boxy brigade like a everybody else and then maybe one other thing if I have any points left over (because remember, as soon as I field a priest, none of my arcos, death cults or crusaders count toward filling the detachment, meaning the points I pay yield 0 CP; if I use ministorum).

The same number of units and the same breakdown of battlefield roles should net the same cp. If anything, many small detachments should yield slightly more, because three HQ trying to centrally control 15 units is far, less tactical flexible than assigning sub commanders to smaller battlegroups- this speeds the reaction time of any given battle group because they can act independently of central command.

PuppetSoul wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:
The 4++ is really nice for someone who never gets to go first because they only roll 1s or 2s for that roll and may break down and cry next time it happens....

I use it for the initial castle up to accept the top of 1 salvo. "I'm deployed. My entire army has 4++. Top of 1. You're up. Good luck, have fun."

Then bottom of 1 it's time to fan out and go to work. But yes, anything that's killing our T3 models doesn't care if they have a 4++.

You actually don't WANT to go first with the blob, since you start as a boardwide 2+/4++, and there's nothing of value they can shoot at and reasonably expect to clear.

In trade, you get Control More pretty much guaranteed for the whole game, and Kill More for the first turn, because it's significantly easier for you to clean up chaff includes than it is for them to chew through ten 2+/4++ bodies that are effectively immune to morale.

I run vehicles heavy lists still. Repressors with 4++ are pretty durable.

 MacPhail wrote:
Who used to run the Canoness Clown Car, and has it been tried post CA18?

I used it quite a bit pre Ro3. Less afterwards. With the Beta I have run my OoSR Batt's with a missionary in each, one with Celestine the other with my Warlord Canoness. Lets me take two OoBR Canoness loaded up with Repentia. Drop the Dialogus and Preacher I had been running and you pay for the second Canoness.

Lord of Nonsensical Crap wrote:

If I had Penitent Engines assembled, I would use them.

Penitent Engines are never assembled so much as they are in the very early stages of falling apart.

As for Orks, they have some good targets for our stratagems. Keep the arithmetic around Holy Trinity in mind and a good target will probably present itself. 4d6 hits wounding T4 on 2+ and T8 on 4+ is pretty useful if you have a Rhino for positioning. Likewise Blessed Bolts... look for 2W models and go to town. Rather than preparing for countercharging, prepare to fall back and shoot with someone else. Orks are fun to play against... enjoy!




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 dracpanzer wrote:

 MacPhail wrote:
Who used to run the Canoness Clown Car, and has it been tried post CA18?

I used it quite a bit pre Ro3. Less afterwards. With the Beta I have run my OoSR Batt's with a missionary in each, one with Celestine the other with my Warlord Canoness. Lets me take two OoBR Canoness loaded up with Repentia. Drop the Dialogus and Preacher I had been running and you pay for the second Canoness.

Not quite the same, but still choppy and fun. I'm really hoping Repentias get some great new models in a year's time.

 deviantduck wrote:

PuppetSoul wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:
The 4++ is really nice for someone who never gets to go first because they only roll 1s or 2s for that roll and may break down and cry next time it happens....

I use it for the initial castle up to accept the top of 1 salvo. "I'm deployed. My entire army has 4++. Top of 1. You're up. Good luck, have fun."

Then bottom of 1 it's time to fan out and go to work. But yes, anything that's killing our T3 models doesn't care if they have a 4++.

You actually don't WANT to go first with the blob, since you start as a boardwide 2+/4++, and there's nothing of value they can shoot at and reasonably expect to clear.

In trade, you get Control More pretty much guaranteed for the whole game, and Kill More for the first turn, because it's significantly easier for you to clean up chaff includes than it is for them to chew through ten 2+/4++ bodies that are effectively immune to morale.

I run vehicles heavy lists still. Repressors with 4++ are pretty durable.

Having deliberately gone second a couple of times just to test it, I would say the 2+4++ means that you don't have to be very particular who goes first. So far, it seems like it just allows us to be more flexible based on THEIR list and deployment. If they leave a baneblade and some tank commanders on the 24" line, you still want to go first because of the basically free instapop+immolator/repressor tiedowns he just gifted you. If he's got harlequins, you want him to come at you, bounce, and get eaten up by your many many bolter shots. If he's got long range, mediocre shooting(basilisks against infantry or dissies against mech) it's pretty meh who goes first. Extremely effective anti-your build guns(Guilliman HB mortal wound spam vs Infantry blob, Knight Castellan VS Mech) you still want to go first.

And while I agree on the Control More for sure(though only for the first 3 turns), I seriously doubt the 'kill more' part against about half the armies in the meta. Against Orkz and Guard, you'll probably lance off a fair number of bodies compared to what they can do back turn 1, but most other armies are going to take just as little(if not less) damage from our anemic blob shooting as we do from being 2+4++ shielded. Our only real source of first turn damage in a blob style list is likely to be Exorcists+Heavy Bolters+whatever bolter potshots you can squeeze in and Dominions.

PenitentJake wrote:

As for the wall of text above, you have your CP wrong. The only detachments that reward more than 1CP are battalions, brigades and the min-three LoW super heavy detachment.

Wow- shows you how infrequently I get to actually play; I just double checked, and you're right. I must have looked a hundred times, and somehow, I always saw 3. What a drag- now the discrepency between between battalion/ brigade and all the other detachments is worse than I thought it was.

What the hell GW? I thought the point of providing detachments was so that people could organized their models into interesting battlegroups to reflect not only the published army background, but also your own unique army within the larger faction. Given these CP values, either you play Dark Eldar (because patrol detachments for them actually matter), or you MUST take a brigade or at least a double battalion in order to even play a battle forged army.

Gee, I guess I'll just have to build the exact same army that everyone else has. Actually, I'll have to build three of them- a sisters of battle army that contains a brigade just like every other sisters of battle army, a daemons of slaanesh army that contains a brigade just like every other Slaanesh army and a genestealer cult army that contains a brigade just like every other genestealer cult army. How interesting!

Furthermore, the only way I can include Ministorum units is to put them into detachments with sisters, which invalidates my entire concept. My sisters (with the exception of the Repentia) are too pure to sully themselves by including non sisters in their detachments- that's why the emperor answers our battle field prayers! Being in the same army is fine, but command flows from the warlord to the leaders of each detachment, and from them to the soldiers.

People will say that this is a plan to make us buy more models (and of course they're right), but it's a stupid system, because it doesn't work. I have to buy just as many models to field a brigade, a vanguard, and outrider and a spearhead as I do to feel a boring, boxy brigade like a everybody else and then maybe one other thing if I have any points left over (because remember, as soon as I field a priest, none of my arcos, death cults or crusaders count toward filling the detachment, meaning the points I pay yield 0 CP; if I use ministorum).

The same number of units and the same breakdown of battlefield roles should net the same cp. If anything, many small detachments should yield slightly more, because three HQ trying to centrally control 15 units is far, less tactical flexible than assigning sub commanders to smaller battlegroups- this speeds the reaction time of any given battle group because they can act independently of central command.

I think you're overreacting slightly. For starters, a brigade can be expensive if you're not playing Guard or going for cheapest options available, the latter of which leads to some pretty bad units overall. Second, because Brigades tend to be so expensive, single and double Battalions tend to be the way to go. +1HQ requirement, same troops requirement, take any number of other units you want so long as you don't exceed the Battalion maximums. Even then a lot of competitive lists, unless they're running guard, MIGHT have double bat + a third detachment but seem to also be as often single bat + two other detachments. It's only Imperial Soup that will sometimes go Guard Brigade over a Guard Battalion + stuff. Third, if you were really playing "like everyone else", as an Imperium player you'd either be Guard Batt + Sisters Outrider + Knight or Custodes or Smash Captain OR what will probably be a brief new hotness for Psychic deny: Sisters Bat with the Brazier for 5 denies a turn at ~264 points or less (double canoness w/ combi-plasma, 3 BSS with storm bolters) and then soup in whatever you want from there (Knights, guard for more CP and recycling, Custodes, Smash Captains, etc)

 BaconCatBug wrote:
CA18 FAQ is out, and The Passion has been errata'd.

CA18 FAQ: https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/warhammer_40000_chapter_approved_2018_en-1.pdf

Page 79 – Acts of Faith, The Passion
Change the second sentence to read:
‘If successful, the selected unit can be chosen to Fight with twice in that phase, instead of only once.’

Can we now shut up about the pink tide?

This would indicate that you can take imagifers from the index and they intend it but that they won't let them get a free AoF.
: If I am using the beta Adepta Sororitas codex, but I include an Imagifier from Index: Imperium 2 in my army, which rules should I use for its Simulacrum Imperialis ability - those printed in Index: Imperium 2 or the updated version of that ability printed in Chapter Approved: 2018 Edition?
A: If you are using the beta codex, you should use the updated Simulacrum Imperialis rule as printed in Chapter Approved: 2018 Edition: ‘Add 1 to the result of Tests of Faith for a unit whilst it includes a model with a
Simulacrum Imperialis

 pretre wrote:

Can we now shut up about the pink tide?

The Pink Tide is not dependent on The Passion being busted: it's the result of aura-stacking and math, making basic sisters spam surrounding Warbossestine and the KFF Mekoness the only realistic way to construct a competitive Sisters primary list.

 pretre wrote:

This would indicate that you can take imagifers from the index and they intend it but that they won't let them get a free AoF.

You take an Imagifier in The Pink Tide because it is the only unit who has both the Character keyword and the ability to have an Similacrum, making an Ebon Chalice Imagifier the best unit for splashing AoF.

But now that we know The Passion is weak and Vessel is unjustifiably overcosted, we don't need to plan around an Imagifier anymore: there's no reason to ever consider splashing an Act of Faith, so there's no reason to suffer taking an Ebon Chalice detachment.

nevermind.

So...
10 points for a squad upgrade for +1 to AoF
or
40 points for a 6" aura +1 to AoF

They both have their place, I reckon. Neither are worth writing home to Mom about.

 deviantduck wrote:
So...
10 points for a squad upgrade for +1 to AoF
or
40 points for a 6" aura +1 to AoF

They both have their place, I reckon. Neither are worth writing home to Mom about.

Why would the 40 point imagifer give a bubble of +1 to faith, she'd just have a SI which gives that model a +1 to AoF.

 pretre wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:
So...
10 points for a squad upgrade for +1 to AoF
or
40 points for a 6" aura +1 to AoF

They both have their place, I reckon. Neither are worth writing home to Mom about.

Why would the 40 point imagifer give a bubble of +1 to faith, she'd just have a SI which gives that model a +1 to AoF.

Oh my, I completely misread things. That is hilariously bad. So now it's relegated to being a 40 point character that can take relics, and have a +1 to AoF? It could work as a Vessels center point, but that's not really worth it. Hmm..

Nice to know that GW accept the use of the imagifier. Does make the idea of an EC imagifier in the middle of a blob of roses ready to splash out AoF, seem less like an exploit and more of a legitimate option.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also the imagifier is a character with the order keyword so could be a place to stick a brazier

 deviantduck wrote:
Oh my, I completely misread things. That is hilariously bad. So now it's relegated to being a 40 point character that can take relics, and have a +1 to AoF? It could work as a Vessels center point, but that's not really worth it. Hmm..

As Kapitan said, it's also a place to put a brazier and a place to help fill out Elite slots.

I tried the blob Sisters list and wow, was it just plain not fun (for me/my play-style/& I) to play. I did like the 4++, but I didn't like it on T3 models. Also, the lack of mobility took a lot of getting used to.

There's a 1000 point tourney coming up the first Suday in February, but I'm concerned just how much farther Knights will be able to extend their casual dominance.

I tabled a Space Wolves player recently with a 1K all-comers list, but he was also fairly new. Not sure how good it is but you're welcome to steal it or modify as your see fit

Bloody Rose or Valorous Heart battalion (I'd go BR)

Canoness w/Blade of Admonition, inferno pistol, Indomitable Belief
Celestine

3x 5 Battle Sisters with 3 storm bolters, superiors with a chainsword
5 Battle Sisters with two meltaguns (or 2 Flamers and combi-flamer), superior with chainsword

2x 5 Seraphim with 4 inferno pistols

4 Immolators with Immolation Flamers (and extra storm bolters if you go with the Flamers)

1000 pts, 8CP 6 FP

If you're worried about psykers, change the Blade of Admonition to a power maul and take the Brazier instead

Very frustrated to see that Pious Vorne wasn't made legal with the FAQ. Is there any point at all to spending a Command Point and a detachment to bring her in?

Waaaghpower wrote:
Very frustrated to see that Pious Vorne wasn't made legal with the FAQ. Is there any point at all to spending a Command Point and a detachment to bring her in?

Nope. I was going to buy the box just for her and i waited on purpose, now im not buying it.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:
Very frustrated to see that Pious Vorne wasn't made legal with the FAQ. Is there any point at all to spending a Command Point and a detachment to bring her in?

Nope. I was going to buy the box just for her and i waited on purpose, now im not buying it.

The game's a lot of fun by itself, the minis are great and you can use her as a HF sister in a squad pretty easy.

 pretre wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:
Very frustrated to see that Pious Vorne wasn't made legal with the FAQ. Is there any point at all to spending a Command Point and a detachment to bring her in?

Nope. I was going to buy the box just for her and i waited on purpose, now im not buying it.

The game's a lot of fun by itself, the minis are great and you can use her as a HF sister in a squad pretty easy.

Well it was for her and the priest, i wanted a nice cheap priest HQ, but now with the "No detachments if priest same detachment" crap, i just Aux in my priest so i dont need that model anymore either.

 pretre wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:
So...
10 points for a squad upgrade for +1 to AoF
or
40 points for a 6" aura +1 to AoF

They both have their place, I reckon. Neither are worth writing home to Mom about.

Why would the 40 point imagifer give a bubble of +1 to faith, she'd just have a SI which gives that model a +1 to AoF.

She's a character, so she would be able to be a source for Vessels to measure from.

Unlike a cannoness, she would get a potential +2 (Imagifer +1, Ebon +1), rather than just the ebon bonus.

And someone already said this...my fault for not reading to the end! Carry on guys!

It's still not worth it. 50 points to try to burn a 3CP stratagem that really isn't all that good anyway, partially because our AoF are so bad and partially because it's 3CP.

Taikishi wrote:
It's still not worth it. 50 points to try to burn a 3CP stratagem that really isn't all that good anyway, partially because our AoF are so bad and partially because it's 3CP.

I pretty much agree, buuuuut it doesn't actually cost me 50 points since I like filling out Brigades and I'm shy on Elites choices. I used to take a Priest, a Mistress of Repentance, and a unit of Repentia and that was all three slots. Now, the Mistress doesn't take up a slot anymore, so I'm already buying another model to fill out that space. I'm probably better off bringing just another Preacher for 25pts and calling it good, or maybe bringing along a Dialogus, but it's only 25pts more to get an Imagifier so it's not as bad. If I'm not running Bloody Rose, I've got three Elites slots to fill and will probably end up going Imagifier+Dialogus+Preacher anyways.

If we're talking about a 40 point model as filler for Elites slots, why not just Celestians for a few points more, more armor saves, more boltguns, and nobody sniping your auras?

Taikishi wrote:
It's still not worth it. 50 points to try to burn a 3CP stratagem that really isn't all that good anyway, partially because our AoF are so bad and partially because it's 3CP.

Well, less of a "she's useful", and more of a "there's a role for her", even if that role is corner case.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MacPhail wrote:
If we're talking about a 40 point model as filler for Elites slots, why not just Celestians for a few points more, more armor saves, more boltguns, and nobody sniping your auras?

Celestians can't carry the Brazier, or fire Vessels. While vessels is of limited use, not needing a canoness for anti-pyker duties might be useful if points are low, or detachment limitations are an issue.

A canoness still wants to get into the thick of things, and that puts the anti-mind bullet lantern at risk, where as the Imagifer (solo) isn't wasted by having her hang back a bit, or at least out of direct combat.

The coolest tactic in the world? Not at all.

Could it have a possible use? Maybe.