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The new unit, Voldus, is an ML3 Psyker that can generate powers from a lot of different disciplines.

He has a special trait that requires he generate a power from Daemonology (Sanctic).

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/03/40k-grand-master-voldus-closer-look.html

"He knows one more power than is normal."

Since he is generating from technically 2 schools, would he still get the primaris if he generated all 3 of his ML powers from one school? For example, if he took 3 powers from divination, would he get the primaris, or would his special ability override that?

My inclination would be that he would get the primaris, otherwise generating the extra daemonology power would be a huge weakness and not the benefit i'm sure it's intended to be. Because the phrase "one more than normal" would imply that his other powers are generated normally, which would include psychic focus...

This is the same as the Grey Knights warlord trait. And I'm pretty sure this would deny you Psychic Focus.

Do note, this is a WARLORD TRAIT-make someone else your warlord, and you won't have to deal with it.

Indeed. He basically automatically generates the Lore Master warlord trait.

This does interfere with psychic focus. But if you generate from only Sanctic or don't make him your warlord you don't have to deal with it.

If he's your warlord, he basically always generates 4 powers. 1 from Sanctic, and 3 from disciplines of choice. Which if you want Psychic Focus has to be from Sanctic.

Personally, I always just go full sanctic, not because I want Banishment, but because Sanctic is awesome.


Definitely picking this guy up.

The Sanctic psychic focus isn't worth it, as most GK come with it standard. Voldus is only really good for access to the new SM disciplines, as he is the only GK unit with permission to select from those 4. Beyond that, he's a slightly more expensive version of a unit GK players rarely take.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
The Sanctic psychic focus isn't worth it, as most GK come with it standard. Voldus is only really good for access to the new SM disciplines, as he is the only GK unit with permission to select from those 4. Beyond that, he's a slightly more expensive version of a unit GK players rarely take.

SJ

Grey Knight librarians can generate the new disciplines as well.



Voldus is good for many things - His x2 ap2 at initiative is really solid. He's that true melee-psyker GK have been missing. He might be overcosted but he is a good unit.

The only reason I'd take Daemonology with him would be the defensive stuff, but then Librarius is just flat out better. Every other power is easily accessible from within the GK staple units.

 Marmatag wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
The Sanctic psychic focus isn't worth it, as most GK come with it standard. Voldus is only really good for access to the new SM disciplines, as he is the only GK unit with permission to select from those 4. Beyond that, he's a slightly more expensive version of a unit GK players rarely take.

SJ

Grey Knight librarians can generate the new disciplines as well.

Spoiler:

Voldus is good for many things - His x2 ap2 at initiative is really solid. He's that true melee-psyker GK have been missing. He might be overcosted but he is a good unit.

The only reason I'd take Daemonology with him would be the defensive stuff, but then Librarius is just flat out better. Every other power is easily accessible from within the GK staple units.

I don't see permission for GK librarians to generate powers from the new disciplines on there. I see that GK has access to them, but not which specific models. Or are you saying that all Eldar psykers can generate powers from Divination, Telepathy, Telekinesis, Malefic and Sanctic?

Could you explain how GK could have access to those powers while being unable to generate them?

 Marmatag wrote:
Could you explain how GK could have access to those powers while being unable to generate them?

Voldus has the disciplines available as listed in his datasheet. No other Grey Knights Psyker unit has those disciplines listed in their datasheet.

For example, Eldar have access to the Divination, Telepathy, Malefic and Sanctic rulebook disciplines according to the quick reference chart from the rulebook cards. According to their datasheet the Farseer for example can generate from Sanctic, Divination and Telepathy, but the Warlock Conclave datasheet allows them to generate only from Sanctic of the rulebook disciplines.

Now, Angels of Death tells us that all Space Marine Librarians may generate their powers from the new disciplines, but this does not include Space Wolves, Grey Knights, Dark Angels and Blood Angels. One of the recent Blood Angels supplements further granted that ability to Blood Angels, but nothing has yet allowed Librarians (or other specified units) from Dark Angels, Space Wolves or Grey Knights access.

 Marmatag wrote:
Could you explain how GK could have access to those powers while being unable to generate them?

To be more succinct than Mr Shine:

On the contrary, GK DO have access to the AoD powers, through Voldus. Hence the checkmark. This is exactly the same reason Daemons have a checkmark on Pyromancy: a single unit in the book can roll on it (Fatey).

And like Shine shone out, a unit needs permission to generate from a tree...otherwise my Pink Horrors would be getting Iron Arm all the time!

 Elric Greywolf wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
Could you explain how GK could have access to those powers while being unable to generate them?

To be more succinct than Mr Shine:

On the contrary, GK DO have access to the AoD powers, through Voldus. Hence the checkmark. This is exactly the same reason Daemons have a checkmark on Pyromancy: a single unit in the book can roll on it (Fatey).

And like Shine shone out, a unit needs permission to generate from a tree...otherwise my Pink Horrors would be getting Iron Arm all the time!

While I'm with you on the RAW argument, I do wanna point out that card was printed months and months before Voldus was even rumored. I'm not sure there's any evidence they meant that as a RAI for Voldus.

Audustum wrote:

 Elric Greywolf wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
Could you explain how GK could have access to those powers while being unable to generate them?

To be more succinct than Mr Shine:

On the contrary, GK DO have access to the AoD powers, through Voldus. Hence the checkmark. This is exactly the same reason Daemons have a checkmark on Pyromancy: a single unit in the book can roll on it (Fatey).

And like Shine shone out, a unit needs permission to generate from a tree...otherwise my Pink Horrors would be getting Iron Arm all the time!

While I'm with you on the RAW argument, I do wanna point out that card was printed months and months before Voldus was even rumored. I'm not sure there's any evidence they meant that as a RAI for Voldus.

Voldus is the nail in this arguments coffin. I see very little RAI play because that is even murkier than RAW.

Straight off GW's site page for Angels of Death: - four complete psychic disciplines available to Space Marines Librarians of all Chapters (including Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Grey Knights and Deathwatch)

So Grey Knight Librarians can take them.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Angels-of-Death

 Murrax9 wrote:
Straight off GW's site page for Angels of Death: - four complete psychic disciplines available to Space Marines Librarians of all Chapters (including Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Grey Knights and Deathwatch)

So Grey Knight Librarians can take them.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Angels-of-Death

Store pages aren't the rules, and Space Wolves don't even have Librarians.

 Murrax9 wrote:
Straight off GW's site page for Angels of Death: - four complete psychic disciplines available to Space Marines Librarians of all Chapters (including Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Grey Knights and Deathwatch)

So Grey Knight Librarians can take them.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Angels-of-Death

That's marketing, not rules.

The main issue it's that grey knights codex it's older than the new datacards, so no one can claim 100% GK can't generate those powers based just in outright datasheet.

Wich is pretty much as not allowing any AM psyker to generate any Demonology powers due not being show as options on their datasheet, or not allowing any other race until they got a 7th edition codex despite what the rulebook claims.

The main issue just boils down to how much *legal* or validity it's given to the power quick reference sheet.

Wich boils down to 2 options.

option A: it's valid so any army included in the quick reference can choose those powers as long they own a unit capable to generate powers normaly (Aka not fixed ones, wich for GK will just be the librarian and grand master)

option B: the quick reference it's just a guide and not valid and thus Mr. Shine and Elric stance it's the right one.

At the end of the day we just need to get a FAQ answer about it as any TO can rule any of those 2 options.

 Mr. Shine wrote:

 Murrax9 wrote:
Straight off GW's site page for Angels of Death: - four complete psychic disciplines available to Space Marines Librarians of all Chapters (including Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Grey Knights and Deathwatch)

So Grey Knight Librarians can take them.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Angels-of-Death

Store pages aren't the rules, and Space Wolves don't even have Librarians.

But surely you can see the RAI here... Not only that but I would argue Rune Priests could use the powers as well, why would they release a reference card with Grey Knights and Space wolves list on it, if they could not even use the powers?

Lord Perversor wrote:
The main issue it's that grey knights codex it's older than the new datacards, so no one can claim 100% GK can't generate those powers based just in outright datasheet.

Wich is pretty much as not allowing any AM psyker to generate any Demonology powers due not being show as options on their datasheet, or not allowing any other race until they got a 7th edition codex despite what the rulebook claims.

The main issue just boils down to how much *legal* or validity it's given to the power quick reference sheet.

Wich boils down to 2 options.

option A: it's valid so any army included in the quick reference can choose those powers as long they own a unit capable to generate powers normaly (Aka not fixed ones, wich for GK will just be the librarian and grand master)

option B: the quick reference it's just a guide and not valid and thus Mr. Shine and Elric stance it's the right one.

At the end of the day we just need to get a FAQ answer about it as any TO can rule any of those 2 options.

GK /can/ generate from AoD, the grey knights that can are Voldus.

Daemons can take from pyromancy. The Daemon that can do so is Fatey.

Idk, I would certainly love my warlocks to spam telepathy...

 Murrax9 wrote:
why would they release a reference card with Grey Knights and Space wolves list on it, if they could not even use the powers?

Future-proofing.

And I'd say that the RAI is AGAINST anyone not given permission because of FAQs. They JUST released codex FAQs, which would've been a perfect opportunity to give errata to specific units that would allow them to generate on AoD powers.....buuuuuuuuuuuuuut they didn't. RAI is exceptionally clear in this case, and it lines up very nicely with RAW.

Now, MARKETING as intended is a different matter, but marketing ain't rules.

 Elric Greywolf wrote:

 Murrax9 wrote:
why would they release a reference card with Grey Knights and Space wolves list on it, if they could not even use the powers?

Future-proofing.

And I'd say that the RAI is AGAINST anyone not given permission because of FAQs. They JUST released codex FAQs, which would've been a perfect opportunity to give errata to specific units that would allow them to generate on AoD powers.....buuuuuuuuuuuuuut they didn't. RAI is exceptionally clear in this case.

But, from what I know there also has not been an FAQ specifically on the Angels of Death supplement, so we will not have a definitive answer until they FAQ that or the powers themselves. I hate these situations...

No FAQ is necessary for AoD. It clearly states what faction and units in that faction are given permission. Why would there be a FAQ for that very clear statement?

An errata entry for a GK Librarian would have been included in the GK Codex FAQ. It was not. Therefore, RAI is crystal clear: no fancy powers for GK.

@Murrax9 answer these two questions.

The reference cards for 7e psychic powers have a checkmark under Biomancy for Faction Chaos Daemons.
In the current Daemon codex, Pink Horrors "generate their powers from the Change discipline." (This was published before the 7e BRB)
In the updated rules from Wrath of Magnus, Pink Horrors "generate their powers from the Change discipline." (This was published after the 7e BRB)

The question: Can Pink Horrors generate their powers from the Biomancy discipline? Why or why not?


And explain this:
The reference cards for 7e psychic powers have a checkmark under Divination for Faction Eldar.
In the current Eldar codex, the Warlock Conclave "generates its powers from the Daemonlology (Sanctic) and Runes of Battle disciplines." (This was published after the 7e BRB)
In the same book, the Spiritseer "generates his powers from the the Daemonlology (Sanctic), Runes of Battle, and Telepathy disciplines."

The question: Can Warlocks and Spiritseers generate powers from Divination? Why or why not?

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
No FAQ is necessary for AoD. It clearly states what faction and units in that faction are given permission. Why would there be a FAQ for that very clear statement?

An errata entry for a GK Librarian would have been included in the GK Codex FAQ. It was not. Therefore, RAI is crystal clear: no fancy powers for GK.

@Murrax9 answer these two questions.

The reference cards for 7e psychic powers have a checkmark under Biomancy for Faction Chaos Daemons.
In the current Daemon codex, Pink Horrors "generate their powers from the Change discipline." (This was published before the 7e BRB)
In the updated rules from Wrath of Magnus, Pink Horrors "generate their powers from the Change discipline." (This was published after the 7e BRB)

The question: Can Pink Horrors generate their powers from the Biomancy discipline? Why or why not?


And explain this:
The reference cards for 7e psychic powers have a checkmark under Divination for Faction Eldar.
In the current Eldar codex, the Warlock Conclave "generates its powers from the Daemonlology (Sanctic) and Runes of Battle disciplines." (This was published after the 7e BRB)
In the same book, the Spiritseer "generates his powers from the the Daemonlology (Sanctic), Runes of Battle, and Telepathy disciplines."

The question: Can Warlocks and Spiritseers generate powers from Divination? Why or why not?

1. No, because in Wrath of Magnus, it states that they can only generate their powers from the Change discipline. Specific rules>General Rules
2. I am not familiar with Eldar but based on the rules you stated here, I would say no they cannot.

But you are comparing things that are not that similar, as you are dealing with a unit that is shared throughout different factions, (The Librarian) , that is different than looking at a Daemon Prince and a pink horror unit. There is too much conflicting information for me to say that RAI is clearly against GK's using the powers, and if i was playing against a space wolf player, or a grey knights player,
I would let them use the powers. I think an FAQ is needed.Just so you know, when it comes to RAW, I concede, the rules as written today do not say that GK or SW could use the powers, that is clear imo.

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
No FAQ is necessary for AoD. It clearly states what faction and units in that faction are given permission. Why would there be a FAQ for that very clear statement?

An errata entry for a GK Librarian would have been included in the GK Codex FAQ. It was not. Therefore, RAI is crystal clear: no fancy powers for GK.

@Murrax9 answer these two questions.

The reference cards for 7e psychic powers have a checkmark under Biomancy for Faction Chaos Daemons.
In the current Daemon codex, Pink Horrors "generate their powers from the Change discipline." (This was published before the 7e BRB)
In the updated rules from Wrath of Magnus, Pink Horrors "generate their powers from the Change discipline." (This was published after the 7e BRB)

The question: Can Pink Horrors generate their powers from the Biomancy discipline? Why or why not?


And explain this:
The reference cards for 7e psychic powers have a checkmark under Divination for Faction Eldar.
In the current Eldar codex, the Warlock Conclave "generates its powers from the Daemonlology (Sanctic) and Runes of Battle disciplines." (This was published after the 7e BRB)
In the same book, the Spiritseer "generates his powers from the the Daemonlology (Sanctic), Runes of Battle, and Telepathy disciplines."

The question: Can Warlocks and Spiritseers generate powers from Divination? Why or why not?

Do you notice both of your examples had an update on rules/codex after 7th edition rules right?

Grey Knights never had any update after AoD was published hence why it's falls on a limbo, i may agree with you that when the current FAQ was published they could adress this but we often overlook they just answered to player questions wich simply means no one bothered to ask about this (or AoD wasn't even released yet not sure about dates).


P.S: i just checked dates GW requested FAQ questions at early march while Angels of Death got released on mid to late April, thus proving my point again that AoD rules are older than FAQ and Grey Knight codex.

Lord Perversor wrote:

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
No FAQ is necessary for AoD. It clearly states what faction and units in that faction are given permission. Why would there be a FAQ for that very clear statement?

An errata entry for a GK Librarian would have been included in the GK Codex FAQ. It was not. Therefore, RAI is crystal clear: no fancy powers for GK.

@Murrax9 answer these two questions.

The reference cards for 7e psychic powers have a checkmark under Biomancy for Faction Chaos Daemons.
In the current Daemon codex, Pink Horrors "generate their powers from the Change discipline." (This was published before the 7e BRB)
In the updated rules from Wrath of Magnus, Pink Horrors "generate their powers from the Change discipline." (This was published after the 7e BRB)

The question: Can Pink Horrors generate their powers from the Biomancy discipline? Why or why not?


And explain this:
The reference cards for 7e psychic powers have a checkmark under Divination for Faction Eldar.
In the current Eldar codex, the Warlock Conclave "generates its powers from the Daemonlology (Sanctic) and Runes of Battle disciplines." (This was published after the 7e BRB)
In the same book, the Spiritseer "generates his powers from the the Daemonlology (Sanctic), Runes of Battle, and Telepathy disciplines."

The question: Can Warlocks and Spiritseers generate powers from Divination? Why or why not?

Do you notice both of your examples had an update on rules/codex after 7th edition rules right?

Grey Knights never had any update after AoD was published hence why it's falls on a limbo, i may agree with you that when the current FAQ was published they could adress this but we often overlook they just answered to player questions wich simply means no one bothered to ask about this (or AoD wasn't even released yet not sure about dates).


P.S: i just checked dates GW requested FAQ questions at early march while Angels of Death got released on mid to late April, thus proving my point again that AoD rules are older than FAQ and Grey Knight codex.

Without a rule granting units access to a discipline, there is no access. Very simple.

SM got access via AoD.
BA apparently got access via a supplement - Angel's Blade?
CSM got access to the renamed disciplines with Traitor Legions.
GK got one character with access via Gathering Storm III.

All other GK/DA/SW units do not have permission to generate powers from the AoD disciplines.

The card and the webshop listing are nothing more than a marketing misunderstanding: "Space Marines" vs "Faction Space Marines" specifically.

I'd say marketing is as good for RAI as anything else though. RAW wise, yeah, Voldus is the only GK who can generate those powers.

Audustum wrote:
I'd say marketing is as good for RAI as anything else though. RAW wise, yeah, Voldus is the only GK who can generate those powers.

How does MANI (marketing as not intended) become RAI? Rules are made up by the rules team, not by the marketeers.

Yet, all marketing did was imply that the factions have access to the disciplines. As explained in this thread based on other factions, access to a discipline with a checkmark can still be limited to specific units or contingent on other conditions. Which leaves us without any clear intent.

Access can be limited sure, but at the time marketing and that card were done Voldus didn't exist. We can say 'future proofing' but there's no proof they meant to be doing that either.

We also don"'t know the extent marketing and rules teams work together. RAI is what GW meant to happen. In this case, I can see why there's fuel for both sides on RAI and I'd come down personally on the side of it being faction wide. Like I said though, fuel for both.

 Stephanius wrote:

Spoiler:

Lord Perversor wrote:

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
No FAQ is necessary for AoD. It clearly states what faction and units in that faction are given permission. Why would there be a FAQ for that very clear statement?

An errata entry for a GK Librarian would have been included in the GK Codex FAQ. It was not. Therefore, RAI is crystal clear: no fancy powers for GK.

@Murrax9 answer these two questions.

The reference cards for 7e psychic powers have a checkmark under Biomancy for Faction Chaos Daemons.
In the current Daemon codex, Pink Horrors "generate their powers from the Change discipline." (This was published before the 7e BRB)
In the updated rules from Wrath of Magnus, Pink Horrors "generate their powers from the Change discipline." (This was published after the 7e BRB)

The question: Can Pink Horrors generate their powers from the Biomancy discipline? Why or why not?


And explain this:
The reference cards for 7e psychic powers have a checkmark under Divination for Faction Eldar.
In the current Eldar codex, the Warlock Conclave "generates its powers from the Daemonlology (Sanctic) and Runes of Battle disciplines." (This was published after the 7e BRB)
In the same book, the Spiritseer "generates his powers from the the Daemonlology (Sanctic), Runes of Battle, and Telepathy disciplines."

The question: Can Warlocks and Spiritseers generate powers from Divination? Why or why not?

Do you notice both of your examples had an update on rules/codex after 7th edition rules right?

Grey Knights never had any update after AoD was published hence why it's falls on a limbo, i may agree with you that when the current FAQ was published they could adress this but we often overlook they just answered to player questions wich simply means no one bothered to ask about this (or AoD wasn't even released yet not sure about dates).


P.S: i just checked dates GW requested FAQ questions at early march while Angels of Death got released on mid to late April, thus proving my point again that AoD rules are older than FAQ and Grey Knight codex.

Without a rule granting units access to a discipline, there is no access. Very simple.

SM got access via AoD.
BA apparently got access via a supplement - Angel's Blade?
CSM got access to the renamed disciplines with Traitor Legions.
GK got one character with access via Gathering Storm III.

All other GK/DA/SW units do not have permission to generate powers from the AoD disciplines.

The card and the webshop listing are nothing more than a marketing misunderstanding: "Space Marines" vs "Faction Space Marines" specifically.

So according to your interpretation any Webstore exclusive formation like Skyhammer back in the day (not sure if it's included somewhere else) and Start collecting ones are void and can't be used because there is not a fixed rule allowing those in any rulebook or codex published?

Gotcha, if it's not written in a rulebook or supplement it's not valid under any circunstances.

Lord Perversor wrote:

 Stephanius wrote:

Spoiler:

Lord Perversor wrote:

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
No FAQ is necessary for AoD. It clearly states what faction and units in that faction are given permission. Why would there be a FAQ for that very clear statement?

An errata entry for a GK Librarian would have been included in the GK Codex FAQ. It was not. Therefore, RAI is crystal clear: no fancy powers for GK.

@Murrax9 answer these two questions.

The reference cards for 7e psychic powers have a checkmark under Biomancy for Faction Chaos Daemons.
In the current Daemon codex, Pink Horrors "generate their powers from the Change discipline." (This was published before the 7e BRB)
In the updated rules from Wrath of Magnus, Pink Horrors "generate their powers from the Change discipline." (This was published after the 7e BRB)

The question: Can Pink Horrors generate their powers from the Biomancy discipline? Why or why not?


And explain this:
The reference cards for 7e psychic powers have a checkmark under Divination for Faction Eldar.
In the current Eldar codex, the Warlock Conclave "generates its powers from the Daemonlology (Sanctic) and Runes of Battle disciplines." (This was published after the 7e BRB)
In the same book, the Spiritseer "generates his powers from the the Daemonlology (Sanctic), Runes of Battle, and Telepathy disciplines."

The question: Can Warlocks and Spiritseers generate powers from Divination? Why or why not?

Do you notice both of your examples had an update on rules/codex after 7th edition rules right?

Grey Knights never had any update after AoD was published hence why it's falls on a limbo, i may agree with you that when the current FAQ was published they could adress this but we often overlook they just answered to player questions wich simply means no one bothered to ask about this (or AoD wasn't even released yet not sure about dates).


P.S: i just checked dates GW requested FAQ questions at early march while Angels of Death got released on mid to late April, thus proving my point again that AoD rules are older than FAQ and Grey Knight codex.

Without a rule granting units access to a discipline, there is no access. Very simple.

SM got access via AoD.
BA apparently got access via a supplement - Angel's Blade?
CSM got access to the renamed disciplines with Traitor Legions.
GK got one character with access via Gathering Storm III.

All other GK/DA/SW units do not have permission to generate powers from the AoD disciplines.

The card and the webshop listing are nothing more than a marketing misunderstanding: "Space Marines" vs "Faction Space Marines" specifically.

So according to your interpretation any Webstore exclusive formation like Skyhammer back in the day (not sure if it's included somewhere else) and Start collecting ones are void and can't be used because there is not a fixed rule allowing those in any rulebook or codex published?

Gotcha, if it's not written in a rulebook or supplement it's not valid under any circunstances.

No, that is something completely different. It doesn't matter if a rule is printed in a Codex, a supplement or part of a web or in-box datasheet. But you do have to have a rule.

Let's take your example: Skyhammer came with a formation datasheet, which clearly listed the faction (SM). The formation icon and the SM icon clearly establish a link within the army building framework on how to integrate the formation. As such it was perfectly fine to use in an SM army or to tack the SM formation on to any other force, even before it was reissued in AoD for faction SM. What was clearly not permitted, is to substitute the SM units with units from any other codex.

For the faction SM, there is a clear link to the AoD disciplines. Funny enough, it's a rule in the SM:AoD supplement that specifies that psykers with the faction SM may use the powers.

There is no link between the AoD Disciplines and any specific SW/DA unit and any GK unit other than Voldus. You need a rule that grants you access to stuff. That is true within codices (model x from unit y may take stuff from list z; Bobby may generate powers from disciplines a, b, c and d), for added on powers (BRB Daemonology) or supplement additions to codices (AoD, Traitor Legions, Angel's Blade). If you don't have a rule granting you access to something, you don't get to use it. If you try to use it anyway, be prepared to be called on it.

The firespear formation is only available as a rule card in the get-started box, in the exact same way that the psychic power card is only available in the psychic power package.

Is the firespear not legal?

 Marmatag wrote:
The firespear formation is only available as a rule card in the get-started box, in the exact same way that the psychic power card is only available in the psychic power package.

Is the firespear not legal?

This is strawman argument; where it comes from is not the issue.

The issue is that it does not say which units may choose the listed Psychic Disciplines.