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Hey all. I have a quick question that came up when I was outfitting my Gorgons. What is the purpose of taking a power axe? It seems like a power fist outshines it in every way.

Stats-wise, the power axe gives you +1 S and AP 2, though it is unwieldy. For 5 points more, you can take a power fits for x2 S, AP 2, and unwieldy. Unless you are really tight on points, why would you ever take the power axe? Both are striking at I1, why not pay the 25-50 points for the squad to be able to instadeath marines and cut through tanks at S8?

Maybe I'm missing something. Am I off base about this, or it purely just a 5 point difference?

Fists are better than axes no question the only advantage to axes is the cost.

I went with axes simply for rule of cool. Fists are definitely better, unless like you said, you're real tight on points. I typically proxy mine as fists (my opponents never mind) with 2 heavy flamers and/or 1-2 chainfists. Hit's pretty hard and the flamers ward of tarpit charges well enough

Alright, fair enough. I guess I was overthinking things

I was debating on what heavy weapons I want. I was going back and forth between graviton or heavy flamers. I guess it depends on what targets I want. Probably 2+ targets, which makes the heavy flamers much less attractive.

Power axes are useful only when you can gain a 2nd CCW or pistol somehow. As terminators rarely have the option for either, power fists are the better choice.

As power fists have the specialist weapon tag, they'd need to be paired with another specialist weapon to get the bonus.

Rule of Cool.

Also, Axes are not specialist weapons, P-fists are.

Well you don't want a Power Fist on EVERY guy because that'll bump the cost up. Maybe two Fists (or Chains) in a squad of 5 is a decent ratio?

 Tamwulf wrote:
Also, Axes are not specialist weapons, P-fists are.

Ah, true. But as Belly said, I don't get an extra attack from combi-bolters. So it doesn't matter too much.

And why not Tamwulf? For only 20 points (not the serg cause I like the thunder hammer) I go from S5 to S8, letting me ID marines and be a threat to basically any tank. When would I ever not spend those 20 points? To me it seems almost 100% worth it every time.

I may do a 2 per 5 ratio for chain fists though. If I have the extra points for that added punch.

 Freytag93 wrote:

 Tamwulf wrote:
Also, Axes are not specialist weapons, P-fists are.

Ah, true. But as Belly said, I don't get an extra attack from combi-bolters. So it doesn't matter too much.

And why not Tamwulf? For only 20 points (not the serg cause I like the thunder hammer) I go from S5 to S8, letting me ID marines and be a threat to basically any tank. When would I ever not spend those 20 points? To me it seems almost 100% worth it every time.

I may do a 2 per 5 ratio for chain fists though. If I have the extra points for that added punch.

Again, rule of cool. Also, instant death on a 1 wound model with a 3+ and no invulnerable? /shrug The amount of multi-wound models that instant death matters can probably be counted on 1 hand. And if they are a character? "Look out, sir!" is still a thing.

Rule of Cool says play what you want. Myself? I like Power Axes. I also love Chain Axes on my Reavers. Don't really care how effective (or ineffective) a Power Axe is, it looks way better then a lopsided, glorified spank fist.

You say '5pt difference' like that's tiny. If you're running Pride of the Legion with a lot of Terminators you may actually be worried about saving 5pts/model on a lot of models.

That said if you're keeping the power weapon to save the 5pts you're probably taking the sword or the maul instead; the sword lets you strike at Initiative to do some damage before getting squished if you're being swamped by power-armoured models, the maul lets you threaten vehicles and Mechanicum-bots with S6 without spending the extra 5pts or giving up I4 (which is actually relevant if you're getting stuck in with a Cortex-bot Monstrous Creature that's hitting at AP2 at I2). The axe does the same job as the powerfist, only worse.

So generally the choice to not take power fists is a thematic one and is only particularly relevant if you're actually playing Pride of the Legion, if you're just taking a squad or two of Terminators as a supplement for a more normal force there isn't that much reason to not just go powerfists on everyone.

(You may have to pick your battles a little more carefully when running around with powerfists, but taking power weapons instead doesn't really help if you're going to pick a fight with Deathshrouds, Phoenix Terminators, Custodes, melee Dreadnaughts, or any of the other things that powerfist Terminators really don't want to get stuck in with, so it's really up to you in the end.)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tamwulf wrote:
...The amount of multi-wound models that instant death matters can probably be counted on 1 hand...

Firedrakes...Deathshrouds...Red Butchers...World Eaters more generally (also Adsecularii and Gorgons, though you can ID the former with power mauls) (ID denies FNP)...Sekhmet Terminators...some Consuls...Custodes (and the T5 heavy-servitor-class (Ursarax, Thallax, Scyllax), and Gal Vorbak) (though you're not IDing any of them with your puny S8, Legionnaires)...Justaerin...

You might need two hands.

But yeah, ID is really nice when you need it, but you don't need it that much. And most of these are the sort of things that will either dodge melee like the plague or take a powerfist on the chin and smile at you before smooshing you into the dust, or just beat you to death before you get a chance to swing.

ID has the added benefit of cutting out FNP on single wound models. Which has the real chance of slowing down terminators from chewing through things.

Throwing my hat in the fist camp.

Belly wrote:
Power axes are useful only when you can gain a 2nd CCW or pistol somehow. As terminators rarely have the option for either, power fists are the better choice.

As power fists have the specialist weapon tag, they'd need to be paired with another specialist weapon to get the bonus.

+1 THIS!

For most terminator types I think upgrading to powerfists at a minimum is pretty much an auto-include. 5 points is worth the extra reliability for dealing with tougher opponents and vehicles, and the benefit of the power axe is negated due to most Termie loadouts available. If your Termies are on the tougher side to kill depending on your legion, then you're pretty much guaranteeing more wounds per round in a close combat scenario Vs squads as well, making them far more reliable. Termies are already expensive, so I think it's essential to make sure they have weapons that net back the points you spent, along with a mechanism to get where they need to go to be useful (I am not a fan of footslogging them).

However, it's easy to get into a trap with Terminators where you're just spending far too many points if you're not careful.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
You say '5pt difference' like that's tiny. If you're running Pride of the Legion with a lot of Terminators you may actually be worried about saving 5pts/model on a lot of models.

That said if you're keeping the power weapon to save the 5pts you're probably taking the sword or the maul instead; the sword lets you strike at Initiative to do some damage before getting squished if you're being swamped by power-armoured models, the maul lets you threaten vehicles and Mechanicum-bots with S6 without spending the extra 5pts or giving up I4 (which is actually relevant if you're getting stuck in with a Cortex-bot Monstrous Creature that's hitting at AP2 at I2). The axe does the same job as the powerfist, only worse.

So generally the choice to not take power fists is a thematic one and is only particularly relevant if you're actually playing Pride of the Legion, if you're just taking a squad or two of Terminators as a supplement for a more normal force there isn't that much reason to not just go powerfists on everyone.

(You may have to pick your battles a little more carefully when running around with powerfists, but taking power weapons instead doesn't really help if you're going to pick a fight with Deathshrouds, Phoenix Terminators, Custodes, melee Dreadnaughts, or any of the other things that powerfist Terminators really don't want to get stuck in with, so it's really up to you in the end.)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tamwulf wrote:
...The amount of multi-wound models that instant death matters can probably be counted on 1 hand...

Firedrakes...Deathshrouds...Red Butchers...World Eaters more generally (also Adsecularii and Gorgons, though you can ID the former with power mauls) (ID denies FNP)...Sekhmet Terminators...some Consuls...Custodes (and the T5 heavy-servitor-class (Ursarax, Thallax, Scyllax), and Gal Vorbak) (though you're not IDing any of them with your puny S8, Legionnaires)...Justaerin...

You might need two hands.

But yeah, ID is really nice when you need it, but you don't need it that much. And most of these are the sort of things that will either dodge melee like the plague or take a powerfist on the chin and smile at you before smooshing you into the dust, or just beat you to death before you get a chance to swing.

I totally get this reasoning, POTL can get a bit tight to run at smaller point values.

Tamwulf wrote:Rule of Cool says play what you want. Myself? I like Power Axes. I also love Chain Axes on my Reavers. Don't really care how effective (or ineffective) a Power Axe is, it looks way better then a lopsided, glorified spank fist.

That I can completely agree with. I love the look of the axes. I will probably magnetize the Gorgons so that I can run WYSIWYG for tourneys and anal-retentive players but run axes for opponents who don't care and display purposes.

AnomanderRake wrote:You say '5pt difference' like that's tiny. If you're running Pride of the Legion with a lot of Terminators you may actually be worried about saving 5pts/model on a lot of models.

That said if you're keeping the power weapon to save the 5pts you're probably taking the sword or the maul instead; the sword lets you strike at Initiative to do some damage before getting squished if you're being swamped by power-armoured models, the maul lets you threaten vehicles and Mechanicum-bots with S6 without spending the extra 5pts or giving up I4 (which is actually relevant if you're getting stuck in with a Cortex-bot Monstrous Creature that's hitting at AP2 at I2). The axe does the same job as the powerfist, only worse.

So generally the choice to not take power fists is a thematic one and is only particularly relevant if you're actually playing Pride of the Legion, if you're just taking a squad or two of Terminators as a supplement for a more normal force there isn't that much reason to not just go powerfists on everyone.

That's a good point. For my list, I'm just running one large squad in a spartan. So the one squad doesn't eat up too many points. And since I'm stuck with power axes as my only other option, I might as well take the power fists.

obsidiankatana wrote:ID has the added benefit of cutting out FNP on single wound models. Which has the real chance of slowing down terminators from chewing through things.

Throwing my hat in the fist camp.

Yep, that has become my deciding factor. I hate dealing with FNP in 40k. I refuse to allow it to thrive in my 30k group!