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I was wondering if anyone has any experience with AoS Skaven in all of their iterations, and their viability for competitive use.

I ended up starting a Skaven collection this week, after feeling like I wanted to try an army with plenty of odd, unique, or otherwise unusual rules, but I am also hoping they have a variety of competitive options? I know Clan Skryre was the OP/broken hotness for a minute there, but I haven't heard it mentioned in months.

Clan Skyre is still the OP/broken hotness if you're looking for competitive play.

It's commonly agreed that Skyre will horribly win you many games, but will never win you an entire Tournament because they can be hard countered. (For example Warrior Brotherhood used to be, imagine Stormcast in general still are).

Well, I was more hoping for GOOD competitive... IE, good strong build options that will make for a competitive game, and possibly tournament wins, without relying on a miserable gimmick. :-p

I'd like to have a good shot at winning WITHOUT being run out of town, too.

Mind you, i've won many a tournament with high level Tomb Kings, so I have played top-tier lists, but at least they weren't auto-win/auto-lose scenarios.

Will also depend on the luck of the draw of your opponents. If you don't face your hard counter, the skyrye mortal wound carousel is more than most non hard counter builds can deal with.

But are there ways to do competitive Skaven WITHOUT using that one trick/list, is what I am asking?

I'd rather not be "that guy".

I am no expert with Skaven but I hear lots of chatter about the Verminus Claw Pack so you might want to look into that battalion. I also recall Nico from TGA making a successful list involving Sayl chucking a unit of Clanrats across the board each turn. We don't really have any Skaven players here on this board to my knowledge so you might want to ask on TGA where you can get much better replies :-)

Thanks Bottle. I always appreciate your insight... and choice of Avatars. ;-)

I hear people always complain about Beastclaw Raiders or Tzeentch online. I have no idea since I've never played it and doubt I ever will. I just collect and paint.

Local guy here does really well with Pestilence. Bunch of 20-40 man unita of monks, priest or two, plague catapults, and a furnace. Ita nasty if he chrges with the monks.

Building Verminus myself, it looks fun.

Hiyas, Skaven player here sorry I don't pop in as much as I'd like. More of a permanent fixture on TGA. If you want a Skaven specific forum, try The Underempire

I've pretty much been playing Skaven (with bouts of Ironjawz!) since AoS started, and heavily since the GHB came out. I think the best all around (and competitive!) army is based on the Verminus Clawpack formation. This is not only because of it's special rules, but playing Scenarios in AoS works really well when you have lots of bodies....something Skaven does really well Once you add in Heroes like Sayl or even more so Tretch, you are really starting to get cooking!

The Verminus Clawpack will give you a +2 Bravery for every 10 models, allow the Warlord to use his Command Ability (Gnash-Gnaw on their Bones, +1 attack) to all models in the battalion within 13" (as long as he is not in combat), Weapon Teams within 3" of Clanrats can pass off wounds on a 4+ to the Clanrats.

To make this even better, you can give the Crown of Conquest to the Warlord. Now he can not only use his Command Ability, but he can also give a unit Inspiring Presence.

Clan Rats at a glance are not good. There are inherent tricks though, especially once you start boosting numbers and adding command upgrades. Standard Bearers allow them to Retreat and Charge in the same turn, which can be HUGE for leap frogging onto objectives or blocking an enemy in their turn and then getting out of Dodge. Bell Chimers add +2 to run and retreat moves, again helpful for getting out of Dodge or into position. Clan Shields add +1 to their saves vs Damage 1. Here is something that is really interesting: You can add +1 to wound for 20 or more models, if you have 30 or more it's +1 to hit and +1 to wound. So now you are pumping out damage...now imagine you are hitting with Spears on a 4+, wounding on a 3+ and if you used Tretch's as well as the Warlords command ability you are doubling their attacks with an additional -1 rend and doubling damage on to wound rolls of a 5+. Try to take these in units of 40 for maximum board control and damage

Stormvermin. I've always loved them, and now they are the Rat's Pajamas. They have the same command upgrade abilities as Clanrats, as well as Shields. They get Murderous Ferocity, which gives them +1 to hit if they outnumber their target unit. They have a 2" range with 2 attacks hit on a 4+(3+ because you will take a lot of them) 3+ to wound -1 rend and 1 damage. Now if you add on the Warlord and Tretch, they have 3 attacks each at -2 Rend and double damage on 6's. I have taken out half (the ELITE half) of a Bretonnian army with this unit alone, it's my main damage dealer.

For Weapon teams, I like taking 2 Rattling guns to pick off Heroes at range. I'll take 1 Warpfire Thrower to guard objectives/heroes on my side of the board. People hate both of these units too

To support this battalion, I'll take Tretch for sure. He just adds so much, and is pretty survivable. He has a 4+ save, and rerolls failed saves. If he is charged (or if he wants to take off in your turn) he can retreat as if it were the movement phase on a 2+. His command ability adds -1 to rend, and any wound rolls of a 6 are double damage. He is my general.

I take an Arch Warlock. 6 wounds, 3+ save, 2 spells per hero phase. I also give him a Crown of Conquest, to give Inspiring Presence to a second unit. His spell is cast on a 7, and can target 3 enemy units within 18". On a 2+ it does D3 damage to each unit. His melee is no joke too, he can pump out a potential 9 damage on his own. This guy is not only great for damage, but is very resilient. Something that comes in handy for 3 Places of Power.

To help in the murdering of enemy heroes, I'll take a Warp Lightning Cannon or two. They are great because they not only deal mortal wounds, but they also remove one round of rolling. You roll a D6, and that is the result you need to get on 6 dice. It sucks when you roll a 6, as on average you get one hit. If you roll a 1...they all automatically hit. 6 mortal wounds, just like that.

I recommend beefing up those units as much as you can. At the very least, one unit of Clanrats at 40 and the Stormvermin up to 30. The more, the merrier. Then splash in your extra stuff, you can even take things like Stormfiends to distract your opponent...but mind it's 300 points for 3, which could potentially be used for that second Warplightning Gun or even a unit of Jezzails.

I love Skaven, I find them to be the most versatile and balanced army that can take on anything. I hope you have fun with them!

 Bottle wrote:
It's commonly agreed that Skyre will horribly win you many games, but will never win you an entire Tournament because they can be hard countered. (For example Warrior Brotherhood used to be, imagine Stormcast in general still are).

Having built and run it in tournaments I would say the reason it doesn't show up a lot is twofold; it's a pain in the ass to physically build the army (taking a lot of money and/or a lot of conversion work), and it has a surprisingly steep learning curve. If everything goes right you'll slaughter anyone, but if you don't get the double turn then it's really easy to make one mistake that loses the whole game. I learned that the hard way; a failed charge (I didn't have the unit close enough and rolled poorly) in one game ended up knocking me from what would have been 1st place to 5th. Because of rolled initiative and the cheeseball nature of AoS tournaments right now that sort of thing is a common risk; players should go in knowing that one bad roll may completely screw them in the whole tourney, but for Skryrfyre that the punishment for failure in that regard is particularly strong.

Thanks very much everyone (in particular Dez) for the thoughtful advice.

As i'd said, i've done the "hardcore WAAC" style of AoS, and while fine for tournaments, we have a rapidly growing, and FAR more casual AoS crowd in our area now.

I went so far as to sell my TK to prevent me from even being tempted to power-game, and as TK are worth their weight in gold, I now have essentially unlimited funds with which to build a more diverse, and fun AoS army.

Mind you, I don't want to roll over and run an awful list, but it sounds like the Verminpack might be perfect for a "fairly competitive, but far from auto-win" list.

Plus, my intent going Skaven is knowing that on "for fun" nights, I can field all kinds of weird, or goofy options, which i'm excited about.

So far i've ordered, 60 Clan Rats, 20 Storm Vermin, 6 Storm Fiends, a Warlord, a couple Engineers, a couple of each of the Weapon Team varieties, a Doom Wheel, a couple Warp Lightning Cannons, and a Hellpit Abomination. I also already own a Sayl the Faithless.

Any other particularly fun, or oddball suggestions?

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Thanks Bottle. I always appreciate your insight... and choice of Avatars. ;-)

Even when I have zero tactical insight (99% of the time) I can at least provide a picture of a cute Korean girl to brighten up everyone's day :p

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Thanks very much everyone (in particular Dez) for the thoughtful advice.

As i'd said, i've done the "hardcore WAAC" style of AoS, and while fine for tournaments, we have a rapidly growing, and FAR more casual AoS crowd in our area now.

I went so far as to sell my TK to prevent me from even being tempted to power-game, and as TK are worth their weight in gold, I now have essentially unlimited funds with which to build a more diverse, and fun AoS army.

Mind you, I don't want to roll over and run an awful list, but it sounds like the Verminpack might be perfect for a "fairly competitive, but far from auto-win" list.

Plus, my intent going Skaven is knowing that on "for fun" nights, I can field all kinds of weird, or goofy options, which i'm excited about.

So far i've ordered, 60 Clan Rats, 20 Storm Vermin, 6 Storm Fiends, a Warlord, a couple Engineers, a couple of each of the Weapon Team varieties, a Doom Wheel, a couple Warp Lightning Cannons, and a Hellpit Abomination. I also already own a Sayl the Faithless.

Any other particularly fun, or oddball suggestions?

From what you are saying it sounds like a verminpack centered army will do exactly what you want it to. I would hold off on Sayl though as he's a little bit cheesy for the casual scene. If it turns out you need him throw him in but I don't think you will. Invest in a unit or two of jezzails (converted or otherwise) and you'll thank yourself.

A little tip on Jezzail conversion.

Kroot Rifles and arms fit decently well on Skaven clan rats.

Thanks for the Jezzail tips. I wasn't envying buying a batch of them at current GW Direct prices...

Though I did sort out a deal with a friend for another 80 Clan Rats and more Weapon Teams, meaning I have a LOOOOT of painting to do in my near future, but hopefully a huge variety of fun lists to try.

At the moment I think the only stuff i'd want to try that I don't own, is any flavor of Verminlord, and Thanquol + Boneripper.

The warbringer works well with verminpack since he can be the general and use his command ability alongside the warlord. Btw, for weapon teams always go with warpfire throwers as they are the strongest option.

The Thanqoul model is awesome. I have one that i hve partially assembled. It does requie a bit of care and subassembly painting for the details. I thinkbit woukd actually work well in place o some of the formation hero requiremens.

I know Warpfire Throwers are objectively the best option right now, but I am making a concerted effort to take a lot of "next best options" in order to make sure my opponents have a good time. The local community growing surprisingly quickly, but it has a lot of players choosing their favorite options with no mind as to what is good. I already have an advantage of competitive AoS experience, so the last thing I need is also an advantage at the list level. :-p

Except versus one friend... I have one personal friend who I will gladly Clan Skryre into oblivion, as we have a friendly arms race between each-other in any game we both happen to play. But ONLY against him.

I like that you are taking good/favorite options over DESTROY especially in a budding environment. Warpfire throwers are great...if your targets are within 14". I still say 2 Ratling Guns so you can reach out and kill a buffing hero should be the first choice in weapon teams. They're great close up too!

The Warbringer can bring another level of nastiness if you are playing The Verminus Clawpack with Tretch. His spell Death Frenzy lets one Verminus unit pile in and attack when a model dies...so just imagine that in a Tretch buffed unit of 40 as they die in droves while you choose to go first in other attacks that perhaps need to kill buffing heroes

I think Thanquol will do just fine too, it's a great model and he can take Warpfire Projectors as well as cast spells.