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Now I've seen thunder warrior etc proposed and to keep things on track and as seperate made as a new post.

They are not thunder marines mk2.. Or custodious, but simply this.

Guliman is the original genetic template that has had to be cloned for 10,000 years, as we do know certain copies have flaws, and this could be inpart to the fact id x hundreth generation clone of the original.

Now . Gluliman is pure original. With a geneseed derived or his materal added your basically resetting thr clock and bringing it back to a near great crusade type purity.

Nu marine of ultramarine stock would have some of the purest, high quality geneseed possible, aka 30k grade.
Now that means that they may also be stronger?

We do not see many marines the like of sevantor, sigmound and kharn about etc
And maybe that's impart those early marines had better geneseed than there later brothers.

I think that they are new genetically superior Marines made by Cawl and Gulliman. Not to say the Emperor couldn't make marines better, he just made them to an unstoppable standard; they were not required to be any stronger than they were.

 jhe90 wrote:

Now . Gluliman is pure original. With a geneseed derived or his materal added your basically resetting thr clock and bringing it back to a near great crusade type purity.

Nu marine of ultramarine stock would have some of the purest, high quality geneseed possible, aka 30k grade.
Now that means that they may also be stronger?

Oh how FW would hate that! Such a major retcon would screw up lots of their fluff and their entire line of rules in one go!

 jhe90 wrote:
We do not see many marines the like of sevantor, sigmound and kharn about etc

I'd bet on Calgar, Dante, Draigo and the like any day of the week.
Crusade era Marines were host to mental and physical deficiencies because of the speed at which they were made, Guilliman sorted out the problem of degenerating gene-seed before he went to sleep.

I'd guess it's going to have something to do with Corax's experimentation during the HH and perfecting that.

 jhe90 wrote:
Now I've seen thunder warrior etc proposed and to keep things on track and as seperate made as a new post.

They are not thunder marines mk2.. Or custodious, but simply this.

Guliman is the original genetic template that has had to be cloned for 10,000 years, as we do know certain copies have flaws, and this could be inpart to the fact id x hundreth generation clone of the original.

Now . Gluliman is pure original. With a geneseed derived or his materal added your basically resetting thr clock and bringing it back to a near great crusade type purity.

Nu marine of ultramarine stock would have some of the purest, high quality geneseed possible, aka 30k grade.
Now that means that they may also be stronger?

We do not see many marines the like of sevantor, sigmound and kharn about etc
And maybe that's impart those early marines had better geneseed than there later brothers.

That is an interesting thought-replenish ye old marine stocks.

 Frazzled wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:
Now I've seen thunder warrior etc proposed and to keep things on track and as seperate made as a new post.

They are not thunder marines mk2.. Or custodious, but simply this.

Guliman is the original genetic template that has had to be cloned for 10,000 years, as we do know certain copies have flaws, and this could be inpart to the fact id x hundreth generation clone of the original.

Now . Gluliman is pure original. With a geneseed derived or his materal added your basically resetting thr clock and bringing it back to a near great crusade type purity.

Nu marine of ultramarine stock would have some of the purest, high quality geneseed possible, aka 30k grade.
Now that means that they may also be stronger?

We do not see many marines the like of sevantor, sigmound and kharn about etc
And maybe that's impart those early marines had better geneseed than there later brothers.

That is an interesting thought-replenish ye old marine stocks.

Yeah, and its from the source of the original that geneseed was derived.
So it stands to reason any geneseed produced from a fresh batch might at least be purer and better quality even if they not super marines. Maybe its easier to graft, work with or generally less rejecting of candidates or works with older candidates.

No need for mini primarchs. Just updating the old stocks with new fresh stocks and that's got to be better than a set that's what 9000 years old at this point from original source and a good few hundred cycles of clone batchs later.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
I'd guess it's going to have something to do with Corax's experimentation during the HH and perfecting that.

This is what I keep thinking yet what are the chances of Corax or the Raven Guard getting a mention? At the very least the Raven Guard should avoid using the numarines and stick to the traditional way of transforming human aspirants over many years.

This does present a new issue in that, what if Imperium started ONLY using this new, purer geneseed thus any old chapters that were refounded, such as Firehawks, would use Guilliman's geneseed, instead of the old stocks of Lion, Dorn, Sanguinius and Corax.

The Space Wolves would obviously hold their own stocks for their own purposes, and Salamanders dont have any sucessors.

What would happen in this case in relatiionships between chapters? You have all the established chapters using wonky old geneseed of their Primarch and no nee Dornian or Sanguinian chapters

 jhe90 wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:
Now I've seen thunder warrior etc proposed and to keep things on track and as seperate made as a new post.

They are not thunder marines mk2.. Or custodious, but simply this.

Guliman is the original genetic template that has had to be cloned for 10,000 years, as we do know certain copies have flaws, and this could be inpart to the fact id x hundreth generation clone of the original.

Now . Gluliman is pure original. With a geneseed derived or his materal added your basically resetting thr clock and bringing it back to a near great crusade type purity.

Nu marine of ultramarine stock would have some of the purest, high quality geneseed possible, aka 30k grade.
Now that means that they may also be stronger?

We do not see many marines the like of sevantor, sigmound and kharn about etc
And maybe that's impart those early marines had better geneseed than there later brothers.

That is an interesting thought-replenish ye old marine stocks.

Yeah, and its from the source of the original that geneseed was derived.
So it stands to reason any geneseed produced from a fresh batch might at least be purer and better quality even if they not super marines. Maybe its easier to graft, work with or generally less rejecting of candidates or works with older candidates.

No need for mini primarchs. Just updating the old stocks with new fresh stocks and that's got to be better than a set that's what 9000 years old at this point from original source and a good few hundred cycles of clone batchs later.

We dont really know how much of an upgrade they are. its possible the new upgrade might only of slightly made them better or more stable or some other lore thing.

im expecting some flavor of LD boost, possible increased stats by 1 somewhere while still being in power armor.

LD for sure id bet my hat on that.

Has anyone considered that the Nu Marines might only be slightly purer which is what makes them taller? That they are just regular space marines, slightly taller because they're 30k grade, and wearing a new Mark of PA?

Has anyone also considered that its not taller Marines, but smaller Guardsman models?

 Deadshot wrote:
Has anyone considered that the Nu Marines might only be slightly purer which is what makes them taller? That they are just regular space marines, slightly taller because they're 30k grade, and wearing a new Mark of PA?

Has anyone also considered that its not taller Marines, but smaller Guardsman models?

Please not the first one. Would screw existing 30k fluff and rules if 30k marines somehow are retconned as being notably superior to 40k equilavents.

IIRC, Corax used 'Primarch Tech' in order to try and make Space Marines quicker - as in raising them up to Space Marine status quicker?

But then, maybe his marines were actually faster and stronger too?

I can't recall for certain - many of those books involving the Legion were just so disappointing, I think I've been subconsciously deleting them from my memory...

 Deadshot wrote:
This does present a new issue in that, what if Imperium started ONLY using this new, purer geneseed thus any old chapters that were refounded, such as Firehawks, would use Guilliman's geneseed, instead of the old stocks of Lion, Dorn, Sanguinius and Corax.

The Space Wolves would obviously hold their own stocks for their own purposes, and Salamanders dont have any sucessors.

What would happen in this case in relatiionships between chapters? You have all the established chapters using wonky old geneseed of their Primarch and no nee Dornian or Sanguinian chapters

Aye.. That would make Ultramarines a larger influence given all the new chapters loyal.
Older marines may still be founded as other chapters pull favors to counter politcaly. Maybe the dark angels a counter if they find thr lion and start making more dark angels?

Could make a nice tense balence.

Corax had some support from BIG E... material superior to anything the Legions ever got.
Should be possible to "upgrade" Space Marines. BUT, maybe the process has limits ? Maybe the way the Legions had to walk was intended by the Emperor, to keep them tied to humanity ?

If you set an Archmagos on a Task, wouldn't the result be a technical solution rather than some tampering with geneseed ?
I for one, wouldn't waste an Arch-Magos for silly "improvements" adding a point here or there to the statline. Return the flexibility and interchangability of tech the Space Marines use on a daily basis, like special ammo for everyone. SM aren't "spray and pray" soldiery..

Custodes are stable but take some time to recrut. Thunder Warriors are instable and suffered badly. Space Marines seemed like the middle ground.
NuMarines ? Is there any bit of rumor to place them at lest with a chance of 50/50 ?

Now, if Cawl found a way to solve the issues of 20 Legions, sort out the Problems of , you know 20 Legions, this would be a boon to all Emperor Loving servants and a threat to the fools who left his guiding light.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
I'd guess it's going to have something to do with Corax's experimentation during the HH and perfecting that.

agreed

The only reason the expererment by Corax didn't work was because it was sabotaged by the Alpha legion. If Gulliman was able to directly speak with the emperor, he could have followed corax's footsteps.

 jhe90 wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
This does present a new issue in that, what if Imperium started ONLY using this new, purer geneseed thus any old chapters that were refounded, such as Firehawks, would use Guilliman's geneseed, instead of the old stocks of Lion, Dorn, Sanguinius and Corax.

The Space Wolves would obviously hold their own stocks for their own purposes, and Salamanders dont have any sucessors.

What would happen in this case in relatiionships between chapters? You have all the established chapters using wonky old geneseed of their Primarch and no nee Dornian or Sanguinian chapters

Aye.. That would make Ultramarines a larger influence given all the new chapters loyal.
Older marines may still be founded as other chapters pull favors to counter politcaly. Maybe the dark angels a counter if they find thr lion and start making more dark angels?

Could make a nice tense balence.

.. how would "90% of the space marine chapters use Ultramariens geneseed" be a new development?

BrianDavion wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
This does present a new issue in that, what if Imperium started ONLY using this new, purer geneseed thus any old chapters that were refounded, such as Firehawks, would use Guilliman's geneseed, instead of the old stocks of Lion, Dorn, Sanguinius and Corax.

The Space Wolves would obviously hold their own stocks for their own purposes, and Salamanders dont have any sucessors.

What would happen in this case in relatiionships between chapters? You have all the established chapters using wonky old geneseed of their Primarch and no nee Dornian or Sanguinian chapters

Aye.. That would make Ultramarines a larger influence given all the new chapters loyal.
Older marines may still be founded as other chapters pull favors to counter politcaly. Maybe the dark angels a counter if they find thr lion and start making more dark angels?

Could make a nice tense balence.

.. how would "90% of the space marine chapters use Ultramariens geneseed" be a new development?

Because you are saying it wrong? Its not currently 90%, its 2/3rds last I checked. And it wouldn't be 90%, it would be 100%. Why use gakky old Lion, Dorn, Corax or Sanuinius geneseed when you have pure Ultramarine fresh from the Primarch on tap? The Space Wolves and Salamanders have no successors anyway so it wouldn't affect them but the Imperial Fists, Dark Angels, White Scars, Raven Guard and Blood Angels would be quite mad.