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Two thoughts came to mind about Gulliman returning,and slightly with tongue in cheek;
Will he say what happened to the 2 missing Primarchs?
The second thought I raise as I have never seen it mentioned anywhere(apologies if it has)
Why have none of the Chaos primarchs ever spilled the beans on their missing brothers? I mean they are not exactly scared of daddy giving them a spanking are they?

Slipstream wrote:
Two thoughts came to mind about Gulliman returning,and slightly with tongue in cheek;
Will he say what happened to the 2 missing Primarchs?
The second thought I raise as I have never seen it mentioned anywhere(apologies if it has)
Why have none of the Chaos primarchs ever spilled the beans on their missing brothers? I mean they are not exactly scared of daddy giving them a spanking are they?

Question one: no, they are declared traitor, the rumour is that the Ultramarines legions absorbed those legions marines after the death of their Primarchs. Why would Gulliman tell everyone that his Legion and now chapters have geneseed that could be considered as traitorous? Better buried in the past.

Question two: they barely care about their living "brothers", I don't they spend much time reflecting about the forgotten legions. What would they get from telling people about the two destroyed legions?

 Rippy wrote:

Slipstream wrote:


Question two: they barely care about their living "brothers", I don't they spend much time reflecting about the forgotten legions. What would they get from telling people about the two destroyed legions?

Sowing discord in the IoM maybe? I dunno. I've also often wondered why the Fallen (or any CSM in the know) don't go around shouting about how half the Dark Angels turned traitor. Having a founding legion shamed and/or possibly eradicated by their own side seems like a pretty big win for Chaos. Plus there's also the chance they don't bow down and are forced to turn traitor like the Tsons. Doing it to the smurfs (and all their successor chapters) could be a pretty big blow.

@ILegion

The only problem with that hypthesis is that the Imperium doesn't listen. I you are a Chaos adorator you can say anything. Nobody in the Imperium will listen to you and should someone hear about it, they will declare it a lie, a manipulation a fabrication. ISIS propaganda material is very easily accessible, so is the North Korean one. Do you listen to them and believe them?

Well no but some people do/will.

I feel like out of the entire IoM there's going to be at least 1 inquisitor who starts digging, if he finds proof then all hell can break loose because then there's a "legitimate" source backing up the "lie".

Inquisitors having been gunning for the Dark Angels secrets for centuries, they just don't know what they're looking for...

Firstly, none of the traitor Primarchs really care much about the material realm that much anyway these days. Even then, what's a pressing mystery to you is likely just 10,000 year old gossip to them. I doubt they really care. It's just old, pointless history to them.

Conversely, as a reader, you likely know more about the contents of the Black Library than Ahriman does, who would sacrifice millions for that knowledge. We know The Lion still lives, and his location, yet nobody bar the Emperor and the Watchers in the Dark know this in-universe, even though some may know about the lost Primarchs, and would gladly trade the information.

What we know and what information we lack is often the opposite of that of characters in-universe, and is prioritised by us and them accordingly.

Slipstream wrote:
Two thoughts came to mind about Gulliman returning,and slightly with tongue in cheek;
Will he say what happened to the 2 missing Primarchs?

To whom? Who would care?

Why have none of the Chaos primarchs ever spilled the beans on their missing brothers? I mean they are not exactly scared of daddy giving them a spanking are they?

As above - who would they tell, and why would they care?

It's ancient history. The Imperium has bigger concerns than the names of two Primarchs who were already gone before the Heresy. The identities of the missing legions are of far more interest to 40K players than they are to anyone on the 40K universe.

Gulliman will spill the beans on the two primarchs erased from history when gw want to sell new primarch models for them. Then chaos agents will have already been spreading rumours all long.

It is a long shot but it is entirely possible the forgotton legions will get revived in the 8th ed fluff with fhe advancing story.

 ILegion wrote:
Well no but some people do/will.

I feel like out of the entire IoM there's going to be at least 1 inquisitor who starts digging, if he finds proof then all hell can break loose because then there's a "legitimate" source backing up the "lie".

Inquisitors having been gunning for the Dark Angels secrets for centuries, they just don't know what they're looking for...

Which is when he is promptly and swiftly removed from history and everyone's memory. The Primarchs had a pact to never speak of their vanished brothers, which even the traitors upheld in the HH novels. With the effort the Emperor went to hide their fate, I'm sure there are many within the Imperium who will automatically take out anyone who gets close, whether that be the Custodes, the Assassinarom (Malcador was the first Grand Master), the Inquisition itself or something built into the computer to broadcast the "heretic"'s face across the galaxy, just so everyone knows he's a heretic.

Does Guilliman know what happened to the 2 other Primarchs? Do any of the Primarchs? We suspect that Russ does as it's insinuated that the Wolves were involved in purging them.

Of course, that could just be posturing by Russ and not actually be the case.

As for the Ultramarines absorbing them you have to consider the source of that rumour: two disgruntled Word Bearers muttering to one another. It's far more likely, as has been mentioned by the author, that it's just two bitter Word Bearers making up defamatory rumours about a legion they have a vendetta against.

Not to say that there's no possibility of it being true, but it's one drop of rumour in a sea of possibilities.

As for working out who knows about the other two Primarchs can we pin down a rough time period when they were actually active in the Imperium? Can we then match that to the rough dates when the other Primarchs were discovered? If so, we might be able to come up with which Primarchs actually had the opportunity to meet the missing Primarchs.

From Lexicanum, it states that the first missing Primarch was discovered 3rd (after Horus and Russ), and the last missing Primarch was discovered second-to-last. So, potentially only Russ and Horus had the opportunity to meet the first missing Primarch, unless they were purged well after they were discovered (definitely possible), or perhaps they didn't even make it to meeting the other Primarchs (perhaps they were purged on their home planet).

Does anyone have any info on when the missing legions might have been purged?

 Ynneadwraith wrote:
Does Guilliman know what happened to the 2 other Primarchs? Do any of the Primarchs? We suspect that Russ does as it's insinuated that the Wolves were involved in purging them.

Of course, that could just be posturing by Russ and not actually be the case.

As for the Ultramarines absorbing them you have to consider the source of that rumour: two disgruntled Word Bearers muttering to one another. It's far more likely, as has been mentioned by the author, that it's just two bitter Word Bearers making up defamatory rumours about a legion they have a vendetta against.

Not to say that there's no possibility of it being true, but it's one drop of rumour in a sea of possibilities.

As for working out who knows about the other two Primarchs can we pin down a rough time period when they were actually active in the Imperium? Can we then match that to the rough dates when the other Primarchs were discovered? If so, we might be able to come up with which Primarchs actually had the opportunity to meet the missing Primarchs.

From Lexicanum, it states that the first missing Primarch was discovered 3rd (after Horus and Russ), and the last missing Primarch was discovered second-to-last. So, potentially only Russ and Horus had the opportunity to meet the first missing Primarch, unless they were purged well after they were discovered (definitely possible), or perhaps they didn't even make it to meeting the other Primarchs (perhaps they were purged on their home planet).

Does anyone have any info on when the missing legions might have been purged?

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Two_unknown_legions#fn_18b



First Heretic Chapter 10 notes them as being "THe Forgotten and the Purged" implying that one was simply lost to battle or removed from history, and the other violently purged. The link above is a comprehensive list of everything you want to know that we have.


What I would say about that Word Bearers scene is that this is 40k, and nothing does fanservice like 40k (except JK Rowling). A regular writer would slip in a little hint to be forever speculated on by the fans, never to be revealed or confirmed. But with both BL (and Rowling, hate her for this), once a reader gets wind of a theory, they will continue to spout it as fact, backed up by other people. Which is fine, until BL are like "OOOKkaayy, we'll tell you, of course you are all right! What smart boys you are!" So yeah, it might have started out as a little spculation and discussion opener from ABD, but once people latched onto it it then became fact. Not explicit fact, but BL will one day confirm it or continually hint until its practically explicit.

 Ynneadwraith wrote:
As for working out who knows about the other two Primarchs can we pin down a rough time period when they were actually active in the Imperium? Can we then match that to the rough dates when the other Primarchs were discovered? If so, we might be able to come up with which Primarchs actually had the opportunity to meet the missing Primarchs.

From Lexicanum, it states that the first missing Primarch was discovered 3rd (after Horus and Russ), and the last missing Primarch was discovered second-to-last. So, potentially only Russ and Horus had the opportunity to meet the first missing Primarch, unless they were purged well after they were discovered (definitely possible), or perhaps they didn't even make it to meeting the other Primarchs (perhaps they were purged on their home planet).

In the novel Deliverance Lost, in Corax's reflection on his first meeting with the Emperor, the Emperor mentions that there are seventeen other Primarchs. When Corax asks how this can be possible, as he is the nineteenth, the Emperor's face becomes "bleak, filled with deep sorrow", and he says that it is "... a conversation for another day."[20] This indicates that the II and XI Legions were already lost, and possibly expunged, by the time that Corax was reunited with the Emperor. It also suggests that they were lost in the earlier years of the Crusade, as the Emperor mentions that most of the other Primarchs had already been discovered by the time that he came to Lycaeus.

So at least by this Corax never met them.

However: http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Primarch

This has one of them being 2nd to last. This is BL author's order so has some weight behind it.

Also it would seem 9 primarch were together on one planet since at least one if not both were removed and this is unusual.

"Brother," said Magnus, ignoring Mortarion's words. "A great day is it not? Nine sons of the Emperor gathered together on one world, such a thing has not happened since..."

"I know well when it was, Magnus," said Mortarion, his voice robust and resolute in contrast to his pallid features. "And the Emperor forbade us to speak of it again. Do you disobey that command?

 Deadshot wrote:



http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Two_unknown_legions#fn_18b



First Heretic Chapter 10 notes them as being "THe Forgotten and the Purged" implying that one was simply lost to battle or removed from history, and the other violently purged. The link above is a comprehensive list of everything you want to know that we have.


What I would say about that Word Bearers scene is that this is 40k, and nothing does fanservice like 40k (except JK Rowling). A regular writer would slip in a little hint to be forever speculated on by the fans, never to be revealed or confirmed. But with both BL (and Rowling, hate her for this), once a reader gets wind of a theory, they will continue to spout it as fact, backed up by other people. Which is fine, until BL are like "OOOKkaayy, we'll tell you, of course you are all right! What smart boys you are!" So yeah, it might have started out as a little spculation and discussion opener from ABD, but once people latched onto it it then became fact. Not explicit fact, but BL will one day confirm it or continually hint until its practically explicit.

Yeah read all that after posting my comment :S it's still wide open TBH, but we can be pretty confident that most Primarchs up to Corax had met the lost Primarchs (and Legions), suggesting that they were active until then. Although, there's something there with Vulkan suggesting tht he did not recognise the faces of two of the statues at all, meaning that potentially they were 'lost' and/or 'purged' prior to his discovery, or at least they never met in person (the more likely option, given that Vulkan was discovered before Dorn who it's implied did meet them).

Ultimately, after reading the Lexicanum page I think it's unlikely that Guilliman doesn't know the fate of the missing Legions/Primarchs.

Really, I hope BL doesn't wind up making it explicit (or even implied beyond rumour) as to what happened to the Lost Legions. 40k thrives on rumour and half-truth as it allows you to bend the fluff however you like in order to make a cool army. It's one of the biggest draws of 40k as far as I can see, and part of the reason it's so successful. It actually allows you to get involved in the universe itself, writing your own vision into that small facet. Compared to that, I never quite get the appeal of stuff like comic-book universes where it's basically you sitting outside of the universe watching someone else tell you a story about it which you have no involvement with other than just watching it unfold through the pages of a book.

Start filling in too many of the blanks and you lose that feeling of personal involvement, which I think would be a massive shame.

Anyway, off-topic rambling over. Promise I'll stay on topic now