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It occurs to me that previously, you might decline to shoot before assaulting on the chance the unit would break and run out of charge range, or kill the closest models and be unable to charge. Now, you've got morale at the end of the turn (so no breaking and running), you can't Advance and Charge (so you can still shoot) and various other factors (the 1" reach and 3" re-position). This seems to make Assault weapons a lot more attractive and shooting before charging a better option.

Thoughts?

 John Prins wrote:
It occurs to me that previously, you might decline to shoot before assaulting on the chance the unit would break and run out of charge range, or kill the closest models and be unable to charge. Now, you've got morale at the end of the turn (so no breaking and running), you can't Advance and Charge (so you can still shoot) and various other factors (the 1" reach and 3" re-position). This seems to make Assault weapons a lot more attractive and shooting before charging a better option.

Thoughts?

More importantly - there has been no mention of the "a unit that fired in the Shooting phase can only charge the unit it targeted during that turn's shooting phase" rule.
If that stays shooting a blocking unit out of the way and charging the unit behind it could be a possibility.

Pistols are even better since they can be fired before charging (probably), and be fired in the Shooting Phase while locked in combat.

That's actually a good point.

I think that the 1 inch reach and the inability of units to fall back due to a failure to mass a leadership check may well make shooting before charging more viable.

Whoop whoop plasma pistol might actually get used

Also, its been heavily hinted that the owning player can pull models from wherever they want in the unit when taking casualties. If you wanted, you could pull models from the front to make an assault more difficult - or even pull models from the back, if you wanted your opponent to make their charge. There are some really interesting tactics that these changes open up.

I am guessing if you have a chain sword and bolt pistol you technically are allowed to make 1 shooting attack during the shooting phase at someone in close combat range.

Then on your assault activation you can make your attack profile in attacks with your melee weapon. You probably don't receive an additional attack for holding two close combat weapons. But this of course is probably just a guess.

 Zognob Gorgoff wrote:
Whoop whoop plasma pistol might actually get used

Yup. I want to make an Assault Squad with three of them and another with three Inferno Pistols.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Zognob Gorgoff wrote:
Whoop whoop plasma pistol might actually get used

Yup. I want to make an Assault Squad with three of them and another with three Inferno Pistols.

Currently packing Inferno Pistols, Hand Flamer Pistols and a heaping helping if Gunslinger on Deathwatch Vanguard Veterans. Tau laugh at them, nothing else does.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

 John Prins wrote:
It occurs to me that previously, you might decline to shoot before assaulting on the chance the unit would break and run out of charge range, or kill the closest models and be unable to charge. Now, you've got morale at the end of the turn (so no breaking and running), you can't Advance and Charge (so you can still shoot) and various other factors (the 1" reach and 3" re-position). This seems to make Assault weapons a lot more attractive and shooting before charging a better option.

Thoughts?

More importantly - there has been no mention of the "a unit that fired in the Shooting phase can only charge the unit it targeted during that turn's shooting phase" rule.
If that stays shooting a blocking unit out of the way and charging the unit behind it could be a possibility.

There's even another possibility that they do it like AOS and you can shoot basically who-ever you want. Ie not limited to shooting at one unit. Possible every model shoots at different unit. So far nothing denies that either and AOS already does that.

Happy days.

tneva82 wrote:

There's even another possibility that they do it like AOS and you can shoot basically who-ever you want. Ie not limited to shooting at one unit. Possible every model shoots at different unit. So far nothing denies that either and AOS already does that.

They already gave the rule for when you can shoot in close combat. Read this more closely and it pretty much says everything:

From Shooting phase faq wrote:
You also can’t shoot if there is an enemy with 1″ of you. The exception to this rule is pistols. Models with these hand-held firearms can shoot at the closest enemy target in the Shooting phase, even if they themselves are locked in combat! This is going to make characters with pistols <cough-Cypher-cough> incredibly deadly up-close.

That is pretty clear which phase pistols are used in and who they can fire at on the board.

Was talking different thing. I say it's possible part of your squad shoots at enemy 1, others at enemy 2, yet others at enemy 3. They copy lots from aos so maybe that too

But if your already engaged within 1" you cannot shoot, unless it's at your closest enemy.

Those guys 2-4" out that haven't piled in should be free to shoot at another unit. But, once they get within 1" their target is chosen. Note: I don't think you can split fire.

I am so hoping this makes Bezerkers the monsters they are supposed to be in cc: hopefully still get the oppurtunity for 4 attacks on the charge, shooting with their pistols before a charge and then again whilst in combat, their chain axes maybe giving them a -1/-2 AP value and furious charge?

Many skulls will be claimed for the skull throne come July!

Youn wrote:
But if your already engaged within 1" you cannot shoot, unless it's at your closest enemy.

Those guys 2-4" out that haven't piled in should be free to shoot at another unit. But, once they get within 1" their target is chosen. Note: I don't think you can split fire.

Yes but i was commenting on note about shooting before charge...units don't start game within 1" ofenemy after all

It also might prompt units that normally wouldn't assault to do so. Like Tau Breacher teams. Sure, they SUCK in CC, but they run in, so some shooting, and get to strike first if they assault. The more casualties you can pile on, the worse it is on the break test for the target unit, who is going to assault you in their phase anyways. They're not going to break and run from shooting anymore, after all. And they get to hide in assault in the enemy's turn - unless the unit is full of pistols.

Hoping plasma pistol will be lowered in points, the actual 15 may be still too much

The Deer Hunter wrote:
Hoping plasma pistol will be lowered in points, the actual 15 may be still too much

For a weapon that is as dangerous to you as the enemy? Five points is too much.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

The Deer Hunter wrote:
Hoping plasma pistol will be lowered in points, the actual 15 may be still too much

For a weapon that is as dangerous to you as the enemy? Five points is too much.

Hardly as dangerous...marine hits in average 4 times out of 6 with s7 ap2. Himself gets autowound with no ap 1 out of 6. Your statement is false even for orks. Well unless they snap shot

Youn wrote:
I am guessing if you have a chain sword and bolt pistol you technically are allowed to make 1 shooting attack during the shooting phase at someone in close combat range.

Then on your assault activation you can make your attack profile in attacks with your melee weapon. You probably don't receive an additional attack for holding two close combat weapons. But this of course is probably just a guess.

But it's a guess I would wholeheartedly support. Though the number of attacks in second edition could rapidly go out of control, they were made alternating between the profiles of the right-hand weapon and the left-hand weapon. Actually having two powerfists mattered, not for something like an extra attack from another specialist weapon, but for the actual difference between the whallop of the fist, and your average, plain old cuttlery dinner knife. Firing pistols within the close combat going on, and hacking away with the melee weapon sounds so more cinematic and could, rules wise, even make all those special pistols even more useful as they are actually used after reching melee.

tneva82 wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

The Deer Hunter wrote:
Hoping plasma pistol will be lowered in points, the actual 15 may be still too much

For a weapon that is as dangerous to you as the enemy? Five points is too much.

Hardly as dangerous...marine hits in average 4 times out of 6 with s7 ap2. Himself gets autowound with no ap 1 out of 6. Your statement is false even for orks. Well unless they snap shot

It's an exaggeration, hope that doesn't need explaining.
Plasma Pistols are a joke. You'll get two chances to shoot one if you're lucky, more if you're successful at melee which usually means the Plasma Pistol wasn't the world's greatest investment. Might be worthwhile if we don't have to charge what we shoot in 8th edition, until then it has less honest value than a Bolt Pistol. As it stands fifteen points is laughable, ten points is cut from the same joke, five points is tolerable if you've got preferred enemy, hatred or re-rolls to hit or wound.