Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?

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**CaptainO**

TankCmdr wrote:
So newbie question, but I'm trying to understand the advantages of taking conscripts in larger blocks as opposed to multiple smaller units that stick close together. Is it just better overwatch and orders efficiency?

I.e. If I'm trying to fill out a Brigade and want to run 40 cons with a Commander and commissar, is 2x20 worse than 1x40?

The commander gives 2 orders per turn, so that wouldn't be an issue, and if you keep the 2 con squads close, they'll both benefit from the commissar. Plus if one unit gets charged, the other is still free, and can provide fire support when the charged unit fails back.

If bigger blocks are better, I wanna use them; I'm just trying to see why most generals favor them

If you're trying to fill out a Brigade 6 x 10 man Infantry squads are the cheaper way to go. You'd end up with less guys. (60 rather than 120) and In points 6 x 40 rather than 6 x 50 (important if youre trying to fill out the brigade while keeping pts down) but as you said separate squads with separate lines would allow counter attacks. With the new consolidate rules I'd be afraid that a large blob would allow the enemy to consolidate into a near by unit.

I get that with Straken, a priest and a commisar your would give your conscritps plus two attacks and an effective leadership of 8 but I feel the WS of 4+ and BS of 4+ of the infantry would mean they'd do more damage.

Also I don't feel like buying and painting 120 models...

Does anyone have any experience laying out AM gunlines so as to prevent the enemy from consolidating into the next line following the fight phase. Will a 4" gap between each straight line of infantry guarantee the line behind will get to shoot (and then charge) the next turn?

**CaptainO**

Ir0njack wrote:
Trying to come up with a "core" of a TAC list ar 1500. The idea is that I can either slide additional units in, change the loadout, or both for larger games. Any thoughts or critiques are welcome!

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [1500pts] ++

+ HQ +

Company Commander [31pts]: Boltgun, Chainsword

Company Commander [31pts]: Boltgun, Chainsword

+ Troops +

Conscripts [120pts]: 40x Conscript

Conscripts [120pts]: 40x Conscript

Infantry Squad [46pts]
. 8x Guardsman
. Guardsman w/ Vox-caster: Vox-caster
. Sergeant: Boltgun, Chainsword

Infantry Squad [46pts]
. 8x Guardsman
. Guardsman w/ Vox-caster: Vox-caster
. Sergeant: Boltgun, Chainsword

+ Elites +

Commissar [31pts]: Bolt pistol

Commissar [31pts]: Bolt pistol

Militarum Tempestus Command Squad [64pts]
. Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun
. Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun
. Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun
. Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun

Militarum Tempestus Command Squad [64pts]
. Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun
. Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun
. Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun
. Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun

Ratlings [63pts]
. 9x Ratling: 9x Sniper Rifle

+ Fast Attack +

Hellhounds [ 220pts]
. Hellhound: Heavy Flamer, Turret-mounted Inferno Cannon
. Hellhound: Heavy Flamer, Turret-mounted Inferno Cannon

+ Heavy Support +

Heavy Weapons Squad [27pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar

Heavy Weapons Squad [ 72pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team: Lascannon
. Heavy Weapon Team: Lascannon
. Heavy Weapon Team: Lascannon

Leman Russ Battle Tanks [534pts]
. Leman Russ Battle Tank: Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolters
. Leman Russ Battle Tank: Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolters
. Leman Russ Battle Tank: Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolters

Cool list dude but you're so close to a brigade and those sweet sweet 9 re-rolls. Hell you could easily run a separate spearhead with the Leman Russes just by replacing them with a 27 pt mortar team (or a 36pt Heavy bolter team) and giving them a Company commander/upgrading one of the commisars with a Lord Commisar. It would cost 16 conscripts (19 for the Heavy bolters) but an extra re-roll, Lord commisar (including his better leadership, power sword and ballistic skill) plus three heavy bolters are probably going to do more damage than the conscripts.

Have you thought about the Straken, Priest, combo for your conscript blobs, +2 attacks combined with any nearby commisars "discipline" would make them a pretty good fighting force. Thats before Straken gives two of the blobs re-roll 1s to wound.

**CaptainO**

vipoid wrote:
For those who haven't seen yet, the new FAQs are out:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/02/warhammer-40000-faq-now-available-july2gw-homepage-post-1/

The most important one for us is this:

Page 10 – Astra Militarum Army List
Add the following rule:
‘Matched Play – Command Squads If you are playing a matched play game, a Battle-forged army can include a maximum of one <Regiment> Command Squad (pg 15) in a Detachment for each <Regiment> Officer in that Detachment. Similarly, if you are playing a matched play game, a Battleforged army can include a maximum of one Militarum Tempestus Command Squad (pg 51) in a Detachment for each Tempestor Prime (pg 50) in that Detachment.

So, no more spamming MT Command Squads unless you also plan to spam Tempestor Primes along with them.

In order for the MT Command Squad to get FRFSRF they would need to be given the order by a Tempestor Prime (who you'd probably deep strike in with them anyway) rather than a Company Commander due to the <Regiment> rule

To get the most bang from your buck it becomes a three part unit

1) Tempestor Prime with command rod (and two orders)
2) MT Command Squad with 4 Plasma guns
3) Scion squad of 5, 2 with plasma (Or squad of 10, 4 with Plasma guns)

24 (or 32) plasma gun shots hitting on 3+ for 166 points (or 228)

To be honest I'd go for the scion squad of 5 and save the points for another one of these (match play legal) 3 part units.

**CaptainO**

vipoid wrote:
CaptainO wrote:

In order for the MT Command Squad to get FRFSRF they would need to be given the order by a Tempestor Prime (who you'd probably deep strike in with them anyway) rather than a Company Commander due to the <Regiment> rule

I don't understand how that relates to anything I wrote. Why would you even need FRFSRF with a command squad? Surely they'd all have special weapons anyway.

CaptainO wrote:

To get the most bang from your buck it becomes a three part unit

1) Tempestor Prime with command rod (and two orders)
2) MT Command Squad with 4 Plasma guns
3) Scion squad of 5, 2 with plasma (Or squad of 10, 4 with Plasma guns)

24 (or 32) plasma gun shots hitting on 3+ for 166 points (or 228)

To be honest I'd go for the scion squad of 5 and save the points for another one of these (match play legal) 3 part units.

I'd probably take a plasma pistol on the Scion sergeant.

Regardless, do you think the Prime is worth it? If you drop him and just have 2 Scion squads, then you lose some plasma shots but gain enough points for a HWS with Heavy Bolters.

Damn I misread FRFSRF! I thought it granted all rapid fire weapons rapid fire 2 not just the flashlights. This changes everything.

After being schooled I can concede that maybe the Prime is no longer the be all and end all.

**CaptainO**

Bear with me here.

I'm looking at running 6 x catachan Infantry squads of 10, Three lines of two squads 3" gap down the middle, 1" gap between each model in their respective unit/line and a 3" gap between each line. Then position Harker, Straken, a priest and a commisar at the back of the center but still within 6" of all 6 of the units. Finally a Commanding officer on both the far left and right of this "blob" (but within 6" of their three nearest squads)

Each Infantry squad model then benefits from re-roll 1s to hit in shooting (Harker) +2 attacks in close combat (Straken and the priest) a leadership of 8 (commisar) and only ever loses one extra model due to failed moral (the summary execution rule). Thats even before the six available orders are issued (2 for stracken, 4 for the two commanding officers almost certainly FRFSRF). Also Harker, Straken, a priest and a commisar cannot be targeted because there will be closer units to the enemy.

My question is, will that 3" gap between the lines guarantee that after the first line is invariably assaulted, the enemy cannot consolidate into the next line?

This would allow the first rank to disengage (if its still alive) in my next go and use "get back in the fight" to get off another round of shooting, while the second and third lines open fire with FRFSRF(Hell with 3 attacks the second line might even charge in after)

If the 3" gap between each line is sufficient you could also just move each line back keeping the gaps allowing for this tactic to continue indefinitely.

Those of you with a keen eye will notice with the above I've filled 3 HQ, 3 Elite and 6 Troop slots. Just 3 FA and 3 Heavy support away from a Brigade. I've compiled a list that contains the above into a brigade AND a spearhead detachment (containing 3 Lemann Russes)for 1500 on the head if anyone is interested in seeing it.

**CaptainO**

All 6 Infantry squads are lasgun only. The two squads with 1" between them and 3 " in the middle would cover a front of 41" (19 + 19 + 3). Lets assume that combined with the rest of my force and the rule that units cannot deep strike within 9" I'd be able to ensure (to the best of my ability) the en won't be able to attack this unit from the side.

I just want to confirm that since each model base is 1" (at least) then if there is a 3" gap between each line the assaulting unit will not be able to consolidate into the next line (forgetting hormagaunts for now)

If not then will 4" gap guarantee it.

As I said with the mentioned HQ, Elites and Troops I'm already on my way to a BDE. 3 BNs would require 3 extra HQs and 3 extra troops. Taking Harker, a priest and a commisar seems like a no brainer with a large amount of infantry.

**CaptainO**

Colonel Cross wrote:
It depends on how wide your front is. That 3" consolidate to the closest enemy can be brutal. I also think some units like Hormagaunts can pile in or consolidate further. I suggest just keeping your heavy weapons back a bit further, as the situation develops don't be afraid to maneuver units around. You can move your lasgun dudes backward and keep the heavy weapons stationary, etc.

Additionally, I have played a lot of games and initially tried BDEs. But honestly, 3 BNs are far superior, in my opinion. Less taxes, more slot options. I think you should consider it.

Reference Hormagaunts, you are correct they can consolidate/pile in 6" with "bounding leap". They are however the only ones I can see on the nids list. As This just means they would be the priority to kill before the nids hit my lines. Have you heard of any other units that can do the same (help create a "if you see these shoot em first list")

**CaptainO**

shank911 wrote:
Does anyone happen to have a link to someone that did the weapon stats vs target T and save.

And then was able to find points per wound?
If not I am going to try and excel the hell out of it to find best weapon per wound and points

This website is pretty good at all that stuff. You'll have to calculate the points per wound yourself.

http://www.3plusplus.net/2017/06/astra-militarum-tank-weapons-40k-8th-ed/#more-12718

Automatically Appended Next Post:

vipoid wrote:
Doctoralex wrote:
My fellow Guard players, I have a problem....

As much as I enjoy how powerful Imperial Guard is at the moment, I feel that it isn't a fun army to fight against anymore.

Fighting a shooty army already isn't fun for a more melee-focused army, but our current firepower just turns it into a one-sided slaughterhouse.

No-one wants to see his beloved Khorne Beserkers in a Rhino first get obliterated by Basilisks and then shot to pieces by infantry squads.

No-one wants their favourite character (often representing the player himself or the reason they play said army) get sniped turn one by two Vindicare Assassins.

I mean, even with taking 'mediocre' units like grenade/missile launchers, sentinels etc, it still was very un-fun for my opponent...

What can I do to help their experience?

I'll been thinking along the same lines. I've used IG a few times now (led by St. Celestine - both because I have a conversion that I really like using and to give myself a more interesting HQ) and all but one of them have been pretty brutal for my opponents.

My army is entirely infantry, save for a few Sentinels (they're the only FA choices I own). I've got infantry squads with flamers in the front and then ones with lascannons and missile launchers behind, with HB HWSs right at the back (along with CCs and Commissars to give them orders and keep them around). Basically, it's just too many bodies for my opponents to kill. I feel especially sorry for my opponents' melee units - which will usually butcher a 47pt screening squad and then get obliterated by massed lasgun and plasma fire. What's more, even if they take out those screening squads, the positioning of my other units basically means that the next squad in line takes their place (so if they kill the flamer squad, the plasma and missile squad will act as a screening unit for the plasma and lascannon squad - preventing most multi-charges). And then of course there are the dreaded MT command squads with plasmaguns. Even with the new faq, I can still afford plenty of them (or just ordinary scions).

Anyway, for my next game, I was wondering about proxying DKOK and trying to play them as flavourfully as possible - taking flamers and meltas (maybe some plasma) and rushing them forward with the intention of getting close and even charging the enemy. Incidentally, Celestine will probably appreciate this change of tactic.

I honestly don't know whether this will work but I'm hoping that it will at least be more fun for my opponents (perhaps for me at well).

People are playing against 8th ed IG as if it was 6th or 7th ed. The ability of infantry to pull themselves out of combat allowing the next line of infantry to open up (while possibly shooting themselves thanks to" get back in the fight") is a lethal combo against 7th ed style of play but I'm sure good competitors will find a way to combat it. That or GW will just re-nerf the orders (maybe bring back the requirement to pass a leadership test.)

The way you play your lines of infantry sounds similar to my own. What distance do you leave between the lines to ensure they second and third lines ca'nt be consolidated into?

**CaptainO**

I'm running this Spearhead detachment alongside a larger Infantry and artillery based Brigade detachment all for 1500pts

1 Knight Commander Pask [Cadian] - Punisher + heavy bolter
1 Leman Russ - Executioner [Cadian]
1 Leman Russ - Executioner [Cadian]
3 Heavy Weapons Squad (mortar) (Catachan)

I've avoided any additional weaponry on the tanks and used the mortar team to keep points as low as possible. The idea being Pask will be firing off 23 shots at 2+ and will be able to give "gunners kill on sight" to the two Executioners in the event they decide to supercharge their plasma cannons (I've heard people suggest that Pask can give orders to himself but think thats not really keeping to the spirit of the game.

A competition I'm thinking of entering is 2000pts so I'll be giving Pask two more heavy bolters but was looking at attaching a Techpriest Enginseer at 52pts to the three tanks in order to offset some of the wounds Pask is invariably going to attract. However, for just 45pts I could take 3 astropaths with las pistol who not only could up the tanks armour save to 2+ but also removes cover bonus for 3 different units within 18" of them. (also deny the witch)

My 1500pt build has 13 command dice while the 2000 pt would have 14 meaning at I can reroll 1 failed perils of the warp roll each Psychic phase.

Problem is with the size of my army I'll invariably be going second meaning I won't be able to give Pask and the two other tanks a 2+ until its probably too late. Any suggestions?

**CaptainO**

Requizen wrote:
Why bring Leman Russes when you can take a Supreme Command Detachment with Pask + Commanders, getting that sweet 3+ to hit? Bring a cheap HQ to get the HWS in a separate Spearhead.

I never thought of that, cool idea.

I'm tight on points though and upgrading the two Russes to commanders would be 70 more points versus the 27 I would save by not "having" to take the HWS. Also the two commanders wouldn't be able to give their tank orders to each other.

**CaptainO**

Doctoralex wrote:
See the thing with the Executioner.... an overcharged shot only get -1ap compared to the regular Battle Cannon and 2 damage instead of D3.
And following that, its more expensive and has only half its range.
Even with re-roll 1's, you re still gonna damage youraelf at least twice per game. Is that really worth taking over a regular battle cannon?

The executioner is cheaper than the battle cannon (160pts vrs 162pts) and the mathhammer shows that while its is slightly worse in standard mode than the battle cannon, when overcharged its better.

http://www.3plusplus.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/WeaponChart_IG_Russ.png

Pasks ability to give the both the Leman Russes a re-roll of 1 would further reduce the possibility of a screw up.

The shorter range is a pain but the idea would be to keep the three tanks together (in range of Pasks orders and either the Enginseer or the three Astropaths to buff them) and since my Pask is rocking the Punisher gatling cannon they're going to be within the 36" range.

**CaptainO**

Glitcha wrote:
I've not got a chance to field my ABG in 8th yet. After looking over the rules this is the list I came up with using DKoK and Tanks.

Spearhead Detachment:
HQ-
Field Marshal (DKoK) Bolter + Power sword

Tank commander (Vanquisher tank, stubber, heavy bolters x3)

Troops-
DKoK storm squad with plasma x2 in storm chimera

Heavy support
DKoK Heavy weapon team Missile Launcher x3 in Storm chimera
Hydra with heavy flamer
Mars-Alpha Conqueror battle tanks Storm bolter, lascannon and heavy bolter x2 (Squad of 3)
Mars-Alpha Demolishers battle tank Storm bolter lascannon

Super heavy Aux:
Stormsword with 2x lascannons and 2x heavy bolters.

Since most fights are fought at close range for tanks, I decided to go with stormbolters instead heavy stubbers to benefit from the rapid fire. In addition, running conqueror style tanks gives me a second stormbolter. Mean at 24" range 4 shots, 12" range 8 shots. The Conqueror battle tanks are the way to go in this edition. Used to be you didn't use them because it was a small blast and not a large blast like its brother LR-BT. Now the only difference between the two is the LR-CQ has a reduced range, but even then its 48" with a 24" Stormbolter. It makes for a great close range to medium range tank. Demolisher is in the list just because I have one on hand for the army. Same for the heavy weapon team. They have proven themselves before. Hydra is my anti-air (fly keyword) unit.

Then we come to the big boy. I usually take some form of a LoW in my tank army to give it the extra muscle it needs. Normally this is a baneblade. After looking over the rules for the baneblade, I was not impressed. So looked into some of the other variants and found the Stormsword. Stormsword siege cannon is 36" range, str 10 -4 d6 damage. Roll 2 dice, pick the highest for number of shots. Re-roll 1's for damage. This seems like a win win. There is a FW version of this model, but the rules are exactly the same.

Thoughts?

Are Leman Russ Conquerors with storm bolter really 20pts less than a regular Leman Russ with a Battle Cannon and heavy bolter?

For tournament games (and therefor smaller board) they seem an obvious choice.

**CaptainO**

The Commissar (30pts) comes with a bolt pistol (1pt) so would cost 31pts as per his description but can take up to two items from the AM melee list and replace the bolt pistol with with one item from the AM ranged weapon list.

Does this mean I can take him with a chainsword (0pts) and a las pistol (0pts) and he will cost 30pts flat. I know this doesn't sound like a lot but in tournament play I want to take exactly the point limit and that 1pt could make a difference.

**CaptainO**

Ya the punisher, Battlecannon and maybe the executioner (If you need to save 2 points/like playing with plasma) seem to be the only options.

I'm looking to base 6 infantry units of Infantry around Straken, Harker, a commissar, a priest and maybe some astropaths to mazimise buffs. I'm concerned about snipers targeting my characters (particularly the commissar) first turn because with so many drops I'll probably be going second, so was considering putting them in a Chimera (because for some reason they can't get in a Taurox Prime) when they deploy. Do any of their buffs (re-rol 1s, +1 attacks, Commissar ld etc) work if they are inside the chimera.

Or am I just being paranoid. Have many people fallen victim to character sniper fire turn one? Are snipers appearing as often as it looks like ratlings will due to their low point cost?

**CaptainO**

Do people have any recommendations in terms of target priority for AM against specific enemies based off experience with the 8th edition? A top 5 kind of thing. The removal of things that will cause movement buffs/attack buffs/ cause havoc with my tanks etc. I've only played Orks but..

Orks

1) Weirdboy (especially if its a foot slogger army). Taking him out slowed the entire army down. The opposite side of this is that he causes the orks to arrive piecemeal into a line of bayonets/FRFSRF/ a rough rider charge.

2)Anything with a custom forcefield (Orks should not be allowed saves against my big guns)

3) Tankbustas: Terrifyingly good against tanks especially if loaded into a battlewagon... I get its in the name but still...

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I get this is 2 short of a top 5 but its just to get the ball rolling.

**CaptainO**

For those worried that guard are OP check out this after action report

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXaqrt9UPh4

World eaters tabled AM in 2/3 turns. Why you ask? Because the guy playing world eaters normally plays AM and knew the weaknesses.

**CaptainO**

Cothonian wrote:
CaptainO wrote:
For those worried that guard are OP check out this after action report

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXaqrt9UPh4

World eaters tabled AM in 2/3 turns. Why you ask? Because the guy playing world eaters normally plays AM and knew the weaknesses.

+1

Dude you need to spread this all over the forum. There is so much whining about guard it is driving me nuts.

Ya man its nuts. The Rhinorush strategy isn't a new thing. He really shows that all vehicles (not just AM ones) are now super tough and even when transports are shot loads the majority of them will get to deploy the troops inside, who then can charge directly into the squishy AMs front line. The shadow sword took out a Rhino in one turn... so what!?!? The word bearers were almost certainly still in combat by turn 2. It was clever the way he avoided charging the shadowsword until he had mopped up the rest of the softer target.

People talking about running handicapped AM lists so others can have a chance is nuts. If they wanted a challenge just hand the other guy first go and explain the guards weakness. (over reliance on special characters, gak in cc and superheavies are a lot of points in one place so either destroy or avoid)

**CaptainO**

Ok I'd really appreciate some help with this.

In this scenario I have my 20+ conscript in a flat line, base to base.

An enemy declares a frontal charge, I overwatch, the charge role is a success and the enemy has at least one model within 1" of my line. This enemy unit is chosen to fight first. All models are able to pile in 3" provided they end up closer to the nearest enemy (in this case my conscripts)

My question is, are the enemy models able to "jump" my wall of models (and invariably their own "already in combat models"

and therefore be on the other (back) side of my line of conscripts or do they have to move 3" around the edge of my existing wall/line of models?

Depending on the answer I assume it would be the same of the consolidation move.

If the answer is no and they can't "jump" over my wall of models which are in base to base contact would the enemy be able to "slip through" gaps between my wall of models, <1", >1" or = 2" (assuming for ease that the base of the enemy model =1"

?

This question has been bugging me so any guidance based on experience or even better someone from GW making it clear would be sweet!

**CaptainO**

daedalus wrote:
I believe that they can go through gaps, but they'd have to be at least 3". They cannot go through your models as far as I know. Things with FLY might be able to though, because I wouldn't put anything past them.

When you say they can go through gaps but they'd have to be at least 3" you're talking about between units right? If the unit of conscripts remain in coherencey then the gaps wouldn't be >2" so does that mean the enemy couldn't go through?

**CaptainO**

pismakron wrote:
CaptainO wrote:
Ok I'd really appreciate some help with this.

In this scenario I have my 20+ conscript in a flat line, base to base.

An enemy declares a frontal charge, I overwatch, the charge role is a success and the enemy has at least one model within 1" of my line. This enemy unit is chosen to fight first. All models are able to pile in 3" provided they end up closer to the nearest enemy (in this case my conscripts)

My question is, are the enemy models able to "jump" my wall of models (and invariably their own "already in combat models" and therefore be on the other (back) side of my line of conscripts or do they have to move 3" around the edge of my existing wall/line of models?

Depending on the answer I assume it would be the same of the consolidation move.

If the answer is no and they can't "jump" over my wall of models which are in base to base contact would the enemy be able to "slip through" gaps between my wall of models, <1", >1" or = 2" (assuming for ease that the base of the enemy model =1"?

This question has been bugging me so any guidance based on experience or even better someone from GW making it clear would be sweet!

They can jump your guys in the movement phase only if they have the fly keyword. That is, if they are jump infantry, jetbikes, crisis suits etc. In the charge phase they can shoot through gaps in the line if the gaps are at least 25 mm in width (assuming 25 mm bases). Only one model has to end in CC with the charged unit, the rest of the models can go anywhere upto their full charge roll as long as they don't engage units that they did not declare charge on. In principle you can do the same with the pile in move, but you need to end the move closer to the closest enemy model, which really puts a very low limit on any practical backfield penetration. But a screen with more than 25 mm base-to-base model spacing is not a screen. You can charge right through it.

As an ork player I have on two occasions charged right through a sloppy screen, and in both cases it won me the game. What happened in one of the games was that a couple of my charging boys engaged the conscript screen (that had already been charged with a trukk to eat overwatch), the rest of the boyz used the rest of their charge move to move just short of an inch away from the stuff behind the screen. In the ensuing pile-in move a leman russ, three weapons teams and one of those half-track thingys were engaged without getting to fire overwatch. And because of the way the trukk and boyz bracketed his lines, and how his russ was placed up against some terrain he could not fall back with either unit. Regards

Thanks for the explanation man, very much appreciated. With so many models in an AM army its going to be tricky to have enough of a space between a conscript screen and the second line while also giving enough space in your back lines for your tanks and artillery to maneuver in the event they are charged. I can see the tactic of surrounding and trapping vehicles being used a lot against AM players.

"Oh no my LR is stuck in cc"

"I'll just use my cc experts to clear them off.... oh right "

**CaptainO**

More Dakka wrote:
When your LR gets into CC you back off and shoot the crap out of what was assaulting it. I like the new mechanic overall, the trick is to not put all your shooting eggs in one basket.

LR will only be able to "back off" if they can move without going through terrain and enemy units. Also the LR wouldn't be able to shoot the turn it backed off. The new tactic will involve the enemy pilling in "around" the LR, trapping it, which means the enemy unit can't get the crap shot out of it next turn.

AM deployment areas are normally pretty packed with 100+ models especially if you are using a conscript screen. Once the enemy is back there tearing gak up, successfully backing up could require a lot of movement of several vehicles further reducing AM shooting ability (-1 to hit). Deep strike denial through the use of the 9" distance rule could mean MSU or characters will be used to prevent the enemy getting behind your lines at least until they've slogged through the conscript screen.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

daedalus wrote:
Sure, if your line didn't get multiassaulted.

Typically, at least for me, it's difficult to really spread things out in the deployment zone by the time assault happens. Particularly when I want my already lackluster tanks to fire at full BS for at least the first turn.

Agreed

**CaptainO**

Do LR block LoS to other LR. Could you "hide" Pask behind two LR for turn 1 at least (I'm assuming I'm going second) ?

**CaptainO**

JB wrote:
Desubot wrote:
CaptainO wrote:
Do LR block LoS to other LR. Could you "hide" Pask behind two LR for turn 1 at least (I'm assuming I'm going second) ?

The second there is any high ground that some one can park a lascannon on the tactic wont work.

but it certainly does work if you are playing only on ground level.

It doesn't work in 8th because Pask is higher than the silhouette of the tanks in front of him. The enemy can simply aim at Pask.

I'll just be using a "normal" LR punisher as Pask. The fluff for my army is that they're from a toxic world so all infantry, rough riders and characters will have gas masks, conscripts will be zomified civilians/ex infantry (AoS zombies plus cadians) and all vehicles will be sealed (no dudes sticking their heads out)

I get that if someone can get a bead on the tank it can be shot. I just wanted to make sure that the enemy won't be able to shoot "through" the other tanks.

**CaptainO**

KestrelM1 wrote:
CaptainO wrote:

I get that if someone can get a bead on the tank it can be shot. I just wanted to make sure that the enemy won't be able to shoot "through" the other tanks.

I don't think that'll ever be possible without some creative modeling. The main problem is even if you can block the LRBT body with other LRBTs, the turret of the target tank will still be visible between the turrets of the intervening tanks.

I wouldn't plan on being able to keep an LRBT out of sight without a super-heavy, fortification, or terrain.

Gotcha. Ya it'll be hard to hide him and the big ass BS 2+ model on the board is going to attract a lot of attention. I have Pask "leading" a Cadian Spearhead detachment and Straken "leading" a brigade of catachans in my 2000 pt force. The real question is do I make Pask my Warlord and give him the FnP 6+ rule or make Straken my Warlord and not have to worry about gifting my opponent Kill the Warlord.

**CaptainO**

Has anyone tried running 3 x 10 ratlings? 210 points and they'd average 5 mortal wounds on characters per turn (no matter the characters toughness) with 2/3 more wounds on a MEQ (even more on a GEQ ) . I don't know Bobby Gs stats currently but that firepower would certainly kill any of our characters in a turn. There is a lot of talk of basing a list around Harker or Straken. Hell if someone took out my commissar then my conscripts are going to suffer a lot more wounds after a bit of close combat.

I get that due to their terrible Ld there is a good chance they're going to get wiped, especially if (as AM tend to ) go second. Alternatively just embrace it and take 6 x 5 ratlings and force the en to waste an entire turn shooting. (4+ save if they are in cover)

**CaptainO**

Ya I thought that might be the case. With their low toughness and Ld they have the staying power of an absent father.

If you managed to have a low drop count army (shadow sword packed with dudes or lots of deep strike scions) then the 3 x 10 might actually get the first turn. The ability to take out a key character is really appealing .Taking out an ork weirdboy(z/s) would definitely cause havoc with greenskins and I'm sure the nids have something similar (characters with less than 10 wounds that buff a large number of units)

With "find the best spot" do ratlings count towards "who finished putting down the last unit first"?

**CaptainO**

Straken, priest, commissar and Harker are a great buff supergroup. Throw in an astropath for only 15pts and you have a mini deathstar (more so if surrounded by infantry or conscripts) 225 pts with one plasma pistol on 2+ one on 3+(commissar) not to mention Harkers assault heavy bolter also on 3+. All with reroll ones.

Can straken definitely order himself to fix bayonets?

**CaptainO**

Otto von Bludd wrote:
Straken is indeed a savage, I realized this when, after all his infantry died around him, he killed a unit of genestealers on his own and went on to kill their patriarch. Since them I've had him gut Celestine, finish off an Imperial Knight, and rip apart a Taurox with his bare hands all in the same game. You can absolutely build around him with a bunch of infantry and a priest. Give him the +1 attack on charge WL trait for SEVEN attacks on the charge and an Astropath to give him a 2+/4++. He is an absolute monster and no one sees him coming until it's too late.

You played AM against AM? (Straken v Taurox). How did you fair. I can't find any battle reports with guard on guard action.

**CaptainO**

I'm running a Brigade and a Spearhead at 1500 pts giving me 13 Command points. Assuming I use one to steal initiative that still leaves me with 12 Command Points for the next "5" go's. There is nothing worse than finishing the game with Command points left. What do people find are the most efficient uses of CPs with AM? Is interrupting a charging unit with conscripts worth 2 or would I be better off using the rerolls for number of shots my Manticores get on a 2D6. Its a pretty open question but I was wondering what has and has not worked for other players.

Also can someone post a link to a 8th edition AM vrs AM battlereport. I can't find one anywhere.

**CaptainO**

lash92 wrote:
CaptainO wrote:
I'm running a Brigade and a Spearhead at 1500 pts giving me 13 Command points. Assuming I use one to steal initiative that still leaves me with 12 Command Points for the next "5" go's. There is nothing worse than finishing the game with Command points left. What do people find are the most efficient uses of CPs with AM? Is interrupting a charging unit with conscripts worth 2 or would I be better off using the rerolls for number of shots my Manticores get on a 2D6. Its a pretty open question but I was wondering what has and has not worked for other players.

Also can someone post a link to a 8th edition AM vrs AM battlereport. I can't find one anywhere.

I think the shooting phase is the most useful way to spend those CP.
E.g. for increasing the number of shots (see our Shadowsword discussion).
But they could also be useful if you need a D6 for rolling damage. (Lascanons)

But there are not 13 shooting phases per game so you need an alternate way for spending the CP. For example disrupting a charge.
I am really looking forward to our own Stratagems, which will definitely provide a nice way to spend all those CP which Imperial Guard can easily accumulate.

One reroll a phase does limit us. I'm thinking of running 3 astropaths to buff my armour saves so a few rerolls for the invariable Perils of the Warp would be handy. I assume its always worth rerolling one of the two perils dice rather than saving it for the D3 wounds (astropath 15pts for 3 wounds?!?!)

Assuming I use one CP in each Physic phase (highly unlikely) and one CP in each shooting phase (very likely with the amount of 2D6 shots or D6 damage weapons I'm running. I'll still have at least one "charge interruption" on me (2CP). Pretty sweet.

Hopefully we get the orbital bombardment similar to the Space Marines. I might end up using a CP reroll to ensure the area of the D6" bombardment is worthwhile.