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*could the admin's lock or delete this? I want to completely update in a new post and have this removed.*

At the moment, you aren't really presenting enough information to warrant people spending their money. The only images of your work I can find are your submissions here, and they are medium on your rating.

Whilst I appreciate money is the important part, at the very least you need:

- Images/galleries of each of your varying paint levels and basing levels
- Better/exact explanations of what constitutes extra detailing
- A website/facebook page at which people can view all of these items.

I just cant comprehend going that cheap...Im not saying that from a commission studio worried about getting undercut, Im saying that as a fellow painter who knows that he could beg on the street and make more money than what youre asking. (for the time invested)


This says that a squad of fully custom tac marines would be 10 for the assembly (So right off the bat you're making way less than $10 an hour) and then at whatever a 'medium' quality means, 40 bucks. So $50 for what, 7-8 hours of work? What if it takes you an hour per miniature? Thats $5 an hour? Its just not worth it.

Not to come off harsh, but when I see such cutthroat prices, it starts to seem...dubious.

You'll also need some details about how it works, terms and conditions, what happens if people aren't satisfied, where you're based, how you want to be paid, shipping costs etcetc

Suggestion: Charge less for basic basing and more for assembly. Assembly is probably one of the more time consuming parts, while basing is one of the less time consuming parts, though there are materials concerns. Also, you don't make any difference in allowance for plastic, metals or resin, which can make a big difference in assembly times.

Edit: You might consider just rolling basing into painting cost; few people will go for advanced basing on tabletop quality. Keeping it simple for the customer might be a good thing.

And here go the giant red flags for a scam. If you're offering to paint a titan to your highest standard for less than $100 then either your highest level is still trash, or you're just going to take the money and run. No legitimate painting service is going to accept such a ridiculously low hourly rate, and anyone who tries is going to get burned out immediately and go out of business (probably before even finishing that first titan).

Thanks for the replies, the prices are not finalized so I put this up here more to see what people thought of the prices.

As I said I haven't gotten all of the information and photos out and I'm litterally working hours upon hours making display models of each quality and base.

Just to be clear, about people saying that it's too low, I am a single painter and a newbie to the Commission industry so I'm placing my prices low until I get at least some reputation then I might consider changing stuff around and making things more expensive. Aside from al that though, I'm someone who has wanted to get heir army done by commission for a while now, but everyone is way too damn expensive. This isn't as much about the money for me, but to allow others to actually get a low priced but still decent quality commission.

If this is legit, for your own good, I'm going to have to say multiply your prices by five. Charging this little for skilled labour is idiotic.
$15 per hour at MINIMUM.

 Verviedi wrote:
If this is legit, for your own good, I'm going to have to say multiply your prices by five. Charging this little for skilled labour is idiotic.

As I did above, I'm not in need of money, I'm doing this for others.

As for it being a scam, 'I go on a quarter up front the rest on completion and delivery of the models'

When people whine about commission prices, I constantly remind people that you're paying a professional artist with thousands of hours of work a living wage, to perform skilled labor for you.

Remember, you're the professional in this case. You're performing a task that others can't, which takes a long time, and you deserve a living wage for your difficult work. Lots of people will say it's too expensive, but a hard core of customers will accept that, and those are the people you're marketing towards.

If you charge this little, you are hurting yourself. You deserve compensation for your work.

 John Prins wrote:
Suggestion: Charge less for basic basing and more for assembly. Assembly is probably one of the more time consuming parts, while basing is one of the less time consuming parts, though there are materials concerns. Also, you don't make any difference in allowance for plastic, metals or resin, which can make a big difference in assembly times.

Edit: You might consider just rolling basing into painting cost; few people will go for advanced basing on tabletop quality. Keeping it simple for the customer might be a good thing.

I know there is a time difference, but honestly building is one of the best parts of the hobby for me, I'm not going to charge more for the fun part


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Verviedi wrote:
When people whine about commission prices, I constantly remind people that you're paying a professional artist with thousands of hours of work a living wage, to perform skilled labor for you.

Remember, you're the professional in this case. You're performing a task that others can't, which takes a long time, and you deserve a living wage for your difficult work. Lots of people will say it's too expensive, but a hard core of customers will accept that, and those are the people you're marketing towards.

If you charge this little, you are hurting yourself. You deserve compensation for your work.

Fair enough, going to 5X my original price is a bit much for a Newbie to the industry, I'll revise the price but only to about 3X

I do local commissions. I did my own work to form a portfolio of my own stuff before I got to work, and I update it with new work. It's important to note that I generally do tabletop standard pieces, as well. I, too, made the mistake of charging low prices at the start ($15 for a Swarmlord, ye gods!). It burned me out and made me want to quit. Now that I charge a reasonable rate of $15 an hour, time calculated at start, I am much happier and produce the work that customers pay for, quickly.

Are they going to be paying $45 for an infantry HQ? Yes. Is it worth it? Absolutely. In fact, that may be far too cheap, if I was less quick of a painter.

 Verviedi wrote:
I do local commissions. I did my own work to form a portfolio of my own stuff before I got to work, and I update it with new work. It's important to note that I generally do tabletop standard pieces, as well. I, too, made the mistake of charging low prices at the start ($15 for a Swarmlord, ye gods!). It burned me out and made me want to quit. Now that I charge a reasonable rate of $15 an hour, time calculated at start, I am much happier and produce the work that customers pay for, quickly.

Are they going to be paying $45 for an HQ? Yes. Is it worth it? Absolutely. In fact, that may be far too cheap, if I was less efficient of a painter.

thank you for your input!
as for a portfolio, I don't really want to show off my own models, I don't really put much effort into my own models and only really feel like I can do well if I'm working for someone else, that's why I'm doing display models specifically for this, that way I can show off my best work at every painting level.

I understand what you meant about my prices being too cheap, I just feel bad about adjusting them (although I'm still going to do it)

again, thanks for the input.
-Jax

 Xjax1 wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:
I do local commissions. I did my own work to form a portfolio of my own stuff before I got to work, and I update it with new work. It's important to note that I generally do tabletop standard pieces, as well. I, too, made the mistake of charging low prices at the start ($15 for a Swarmlord, ye gods!). It burned me out and made me want to quit. Now that I charge a reasonable rate of $15 an hour, time calculated at start, I am much happier and produce the work that customers pay for, quickly.

Are they going to be paying $45 for an HQ? Yes. Is it worth it? Absolutely. In fact, that may be far too cheap, if I was less efficient of a painter.

thank you for your input!
as for a portfolio, I don't really want to show off my own models, I don't really put much effort into my own models and only really feel like I can do well if I'm working for someone else, that's why I'm doing display models specifically for this, that way I can show off my best work at every painting level.

I understand what you meant about my prices being too cheap, I just feel bad about adjusting them (although I'm still going to do it)

again, thanks for the input.
-Jax

Good. Sometimes, what's best for others is the opposite of what's good for you. You are a business. Look out for yourself, first.

 Verviedi wrote:

 Xjax1 wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:
I do local commissions. I did my own work to form a portfolio of my own stuff before I got to work, and I update it with new work. It's important to note that I generally do tabletop standard pieces, as well. I, too, made the mistake of charging low prices at the start ($15 for a Swarmlord, ye gods!). It burned me out and made me want to quit. Now that I charge a reasonable rate of $15 an hour, time calculated at start, I am much happier and produce the work that customers pay for, quickly.

Are they going to be paying $45 for an HQ? Yes. Is it worth it? Absolutely. In fact, that may be far too cheap, if I was less efficient of a painter.

thank you for your input!
as for a portfolio, I don't really want to show off my own models, I don't really put much effort into my own models and only really feel like I can do well if I'm working for someone else, that's why I'm doing display models specifically for this, that way I can show off my best work at every painting level.

I understand what you meant about my prices being too cheap, I just feel bad about adjusting them (although I'm still going to do it)

again, thanks for the input.
-Jax

Good. Sometimes, what's best for others is the opposite of what's good for you. You are a business. Look out for yourself, first.

I guess I put myself as a hobbyist first, putting down what would be commission prices I can pay without too much difficulty

 Xjax1 wrote:
As I did above, I'm not in need of money, I'm doing this for others.

Then you're either a fool, or a scammer. Painting is a business, period. You sell your labor in exchange for money, and your goal is to maximize your profit. Trying to treat it like a charity guarantees that you will get burned out immediately and end the business.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Xjax1 wrote:
As I did above, I'm not in need of money, I'm doing this for others.

Then you're either a fool, or a scammer. Painting is a business, period. You sell your labor in exchange for money, and your goal is to maximize your profit. Trying to treat it like a charity guarantees that you will get burned out immediately and end the business.

already changed the prices, don't worry bout it




just going to say this because my only interactions with you haven't been very... Friendly...
if you were a bit nicer and just talked to a person instead of calling them a fool or a scammer instantly, it would help make you more likable.

What are you talking about? I only see the literal voice of the heavens, speaking directly to you through the most sacred computer imaginable. Do you not feel enlightened by the Word Of The Great Bird?

 Xjax1 wrote:
already changed the prices, don't worry bout it

It's not just the prices, it's your mindset of "I'm not doing this to make money, I'm doing it to help people". If you don't think of this as a for-profit business then you aren't going to succeed.

Also, your prices are still laughably cheap. Like many "I'll do this for cheap" commission painters you seem to have a very limited understanding of just how much time and effort goes into painting at the highest levels of quality.

just going to say this because my only interactions with you haven't been very... Friendly...
if you were a bit nicer and just talked to a person instead of calling them a fool or a scammer instantly, it would help make you more likable.

What makes you think being likeable is my goal? I'm not here to be your friend, and I'm not going to refrain from telling you that your ideas are bad (or that you look like a scammer) out of some desperate hope that a strange I will never meet will like me. Like me or don't, I don't care.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Xjax1 wrote:
already changed the prices, don't worry bout it

It's not just the prices, it's your mindset of "I'm not doing this to make money, I'm doing it to help people". If you don't think of this as a for-profit business then you aren't going to succeed.

just going to say this because my only interactions with you haven't been very... Friendly...
if you were a bit nicer and just talked to a person instead of calling them a fool or a scammer instantly, it would help make you more likable.

What makes you think being likeable is my goal? I'm not here to be your friend, and I'm not going to refrain from telling you that your ideas are bad (or that you look like a scammer) out of some desperate hope that a strange I will never meet will like me. Like me or don't, I don't care.

K,

don't have anything more to say on this front other than this last bit.

and who says I cant do both? I do my work for the people by not having stupidly expensive prices, but I work for myself by making enough money for this to be a legitimate job.

 Xjax1 wrote:
and who says I cant do both? I do my work for the people by not having stupidly expensive prices, but I work for myself by making enough money for this to be a legitimate job.

Because the point you keep failing to get is that commission painting prices aren't stupidly expensive. Once you consider the amount of time required to paint at a reasonably high level you'll notice that most commission painters are actually making a fairly low hourly rate, often below minimum wage. This is a problem that newbie painters keep having, they start out with the idea that they can do it for much cheaper, then promptly get burned out and quit when they realize how little money they're getting for their time.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Xjax1 wrote:
and who says I cant do both? I do my work for the people by not having stupidly expensive prices, but I work for myself by making enough money for this to be a legitimate job.

Because the point you keep failing to get is that commission painting prices aren't stupidly expensive. Once you consider the amount of time required to paint at a reasonably high level you'll notice that most commission painters are actually making a fairly low hourly rate, often below minimum wage. This is a problem that newbie painters keep having, they start out with the idea that they can do it for much cheaper, then promptly get burned out and quit when they realize how little money they're getting for their time.

Fair enough

This was supposed to be a PM. Ignore.

 Xjax1 wrote:
I know there is a time difference, but honestly building is one of the best parts of the hobby for me, I'm not going to charge more for the fun part

Hey, getting paid for having fun is the best possible business decision you can make. You don't want to stop one day and say "You know, I used to love assembling minis but I make so little doing it that it's kind of a bummer now." Yes, making your hobby a business CAN do that to you. At least if you're making a living wage you help to avoid that.

 John Prins wrote:

 Xjax1 wrote:
I know there is a time difference, but honestly building is one of the best parts of the hobby for me, I'm not going to charge more for the fun part

Hey, getting paid for having fun is the best possible business decision you can make. You don't want to stop one day and say "You know, I used to love assembling minis but I make so little doing it that it's kind of a bummer now." Yes, making your hobby a business CAN do that to you. At least if you're making a living wage you help to avoid that.

Perfectly valid point, that's why I increased the prices to a point where I earn minimum wage most of the time but it's still not too crazy

When I started working on commission I charged way too little.

From memory I think that was in the region of £4-5 for a display quality model.
Before long I realised three important things;
1) I was WAY overloaded and close to burning out.
2) I began to hate painting
3) I had MASSIVELY underestimated the time it takes.

I thought at £5 an infantry I'd be making a decent wage, instead I was often getting only £2-3 an hour.


Sure, go for a few cheap commissions but be prepared to up your prices once you have a few done and some photos available.


Another point I'd make - you're coming here to ask advice from people many of whom ARE the commission painters you're trying to undercut.

We all understand it can seem expensive when you look at the prices commission services charge. It's an expensive hobby.

Look at it in these terms: You are paying for somebody's time, and their skill, saving your own time and (often) the need to develop your own skill. You're paying for their focus, their materials, their tools, all saving you buying your own. You're paying for their artistic vision and usually their own individual style.

PossumCraft wrote:
When I started working on commission I charged way too little.

From memory I think that was in the region of £4-5 for a display quality model.
Before long I realised three important things;
1) I was WAY overloaded and close to burning out.
2) I began to hate painting
3) I had MASSIVELY underestimated the time it takes.

I thought at £5 an infantry I'd be making a decent wage, instead I was often getting only £2-3 an hour.


Sure, go for a few cheap commissions but be prepared to up your prices once you have a few done and some photos available.


Another point I'd make - you're coming here to ask advice from people many of whom ARE the commission painters you're trying to undercut.

We all understand it can seem expensive when you look at the prices commission services charge. It's an expensive hobby.

Look at it in these terms: You are paying for somebody's time, and their skill, saving your own time and (often) the need to develop your own skill. You're paying for their focus, their materials, their tools, all saving you buying your own. You're paying for their artistic vision and usually their own individual style.

Fair enough, although my intention was never to take away from other Commission Artists, their work is amazing and a lot better than mine. I just want to be affordable because I never could afford to get my army done up.

If other folks work is a lot better than yours, you're not 'high quality', and shouldn't say you are. This is a skilled job, and it takes a LOT of practice to get good and consistent (both of which are essential).

Without pictures, words describing artwork mean very little. If you offer levels of service, you need pictures of the same model done to those differing levels.

Going on about how you can do a professional job with no visible portfolio just puts people off and makes you look like a scammer.

Put up (pictures) or shut up is probably the most concise I can be on that.

So presentation - good clear, well lit photos (GW's 'how to photograph minis' tells you what you need), non-disruptive backgrounds (white or blue gradient is old school traditional). Watch your spelling, watch your grammar.

Business wise, it's been said a lot - you need to price in such away that the business supports you, not the other way round. There are a great many 'I'm starting a commission business' threads that have cropped up over the years, and they usually devolve into the same sort of pattern, so I suggest you spend a bit of time reading those.

Peregrine's hit the nail on the head here though, but bear in mind that competition (how easy it is to score work at a given rate) can get fierce, especially in the army workspace:

Once you consider the amount of time required to paint at a reasonably high level you'll notice that most commission painters are actually making a fairly low hourly rate, often below minimum wage. This is a problem that newbie painters keep having, they start out with the idea that they can do it for much cheaper, then promptly get burned out and quit when they realize how little money they're getting for their time.

 Peregrine wrote:
It's not just the prices, it's your mindset of "I'm not doing this to make money, I'm doing it to help people". If you don't think of this as a for-profit business then you aren't going to succeed.

Also, your prices are still laughably cheap. Like many "I'll do this for cheap" commission painters you seem to have a very limited understanding of just how much time and effort goes into painting at the highest levels of quality.

Then again if he isn't in it to make big profitable business financing him with it alone...

As weird as it might be some people don't think only about hourly rate. We don't know for example his income. Money is not something that you double your income you double your life quality. It's reducing curve.

The OP's talking about a business (replete with name), not a hobby / amateur pitch. VERY different ballparks to play in.

Honestly, if it's not making profit it's not worth it - paint for yourself.

It's easy to think you can be altruistic with it, but the truth (as you find out when you actually do it) is that it's a massive time sink that will come to dominate your time, and breed resentment. There will be things you'd rather be doing than another 50 space marines in a slightly different flavour to the last 50. It's hard to put devotion and time into something that doesn't provide a tangible benefit - and believe me, when the work becomes work (and it will), the benefit needs to tangible.

I don't even do mates' rates. It's better to just paint a mate's stuff for free as and when you can, or better yet get together and paint together. Then there's no real 'work' to it - it's just a favour for favour's sake.