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I've been wondering how grav weapons are going to work in 8th. I was thinking the added effect could either be "reduce the targets movement stat by 1 for every unsaved wound inflicted" or "models with stat degradation charts move 1 step down the chart any turn it suffers 1 or more unsaved wounds".

I know the wording is clunky but I think it would kind of show off what effect grav has on things. It'd also make it more desirable against big tanks and monsters but be a bit wasted on smaller stuff. Maybe also make it a solid 4+ to wound regardless of toughness again, it makes it useful against bigger stuff and less so against smaller things. Thoughts?

Crazy Jay wrote:
I've been wondering how grav weapons are going to work in 8th. I was thinking the added effect could either be "reduce the targets movement stat by 1 for every unsaved wound inflicted" or "models with stat degradation charts move 1 step down the chart any turn it suffers 1 or more unsaved wounds".

I know the wording is clunky but I think it would kind of show off what effect grav has on things. It'd also make it more desirable against big tanks and monsters but be a bit wasted on smaller stuff. Maybe also make it a solid 4+ to wound regardless of toughness again, it makes it useful against bigger stuff and less so against smaller things. Thoughts?

God no! How many shots would it take for Grav to immobalise a horde? Two shots could do to a 'vehicle' what normally 17 shots would do? Just no! Grav was a bad idea when it was intoduced in 7e and, hopefully, it will be hit with a nerf hammer this edition.

Grav was a bad idea to compensate for other, even worse ideas. I play a list that is very vulnerable to grav, and I'd still not put it in my top 5 problems for 7th.

If those problems are gone, they can make grav a niche weapon.

With all of the ultra high toughness vehicles now having armor saves, grav will not exist in its 7th edition form in 8th edition, pretty sure on that.

The question really is, what role is grav supposed to fill now, that MCs and Vehicles are one in the same.

Melta & lascannon are supposed to be anti-tank, and anti-MC. So what is the purpose of grav?

 Marmatag wrote:
With all of the ultra high toughness vehicles now having armor saves, grav will not exist in its 7th edition form in 8th edition, pretty sure on that.

The question really is, what role is grav supposed to fill now, that MCs and Vehicles are one in the same.

Melta & lascannon are supposed to be anti-tank, and anti-MC. So what is the purpose of grav?

For killing multiple heavily armoured infantry models.

Oh wait that's plasma's role- one that it was perfectly good for prior to grav's introduction!
(Plasma was also plenty good enough to ruin most monstrous creatures' day)

Jbz` wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
With all of the ultra high toughness vehicles now having armor saves, grav will not exist in its 7th edition form in 8th edition, pretty sure on that.

The question really is, what role is grav supposed to fill now, that MCs and Vehicles are one in the same.

Melta & lascannon are supposed to be anti-tank, and anti-MC. So what is the purpose of grav?

For killing multiple heavily armoured infantry models.

Oh wait that's plasma's role- one that it was perfectly good for prior to grav's introduction!
(Plasma was also plenty good enough to ruin most monstrous creatures' day)

But not the ones that mattered most. It was a derpy but necessary fix.

simpliest solution, grav fires more shots, but each shot deals 1 wound. Plasma shoots less but each shot deals d3 wounds. Plasma becomes a light vehicle cracker/terminator killer.

Martel732 wrote:

Jbz` wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
With all of the ultra high toughness vehicles now having armor saves, grav will not exist in its 7th edition form in 8th edition, pretty sure on that.

The question really is, what role is grav supposed to fill now, that MCs and Vehicles are one in the same.

Melta & lascannon are supposed to be anti-tank, and anti-MC. So what is the purpose of grav?

For killing multiple heavily armoured infantry models.

Oh wait that's plasma's role- one that it was perfectly good for prior to grav's introduction!
(Plasma was also plenty good enough to ruin most monstrous creatures' day)

But not the ones that mattered most. It was a derpy but necessary fix.

I disagree a "fix" would have brought the few OP MCs into line.
All grav has done is screw over all the weaker ones, add to the fact that only loyalist marines (and cult mechanicus) got it left everyone else in the lurch against the problem MCs

Grav is a really stupid invention of 7th ed. (it doesn't bear any resemblance to the original graviton guns) and should really be completely neutered/changed.

Jbz` wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

Jbz` wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
With all of the ultra high toughness vehicles now having armor saves, grav will not exist in its 7th edition form in 8th edition, pretty sure on that.

The question really is, what role is grav supposed to fill now, that MCs and Vehicles are one in the same.

Melta & lascannon are supposed to be anti-tank, and anti-MC. So what is the purpose of grav?

For killing multiple heavily armoured infantry models.

Oh wait that's plasma's role- one that it was perfectly good for prior to grav's introduction!
(Plasma was also plenty good enough to ruin most monstrous creatures' day)

But not the ones that mattered most. It was a derpy but necessary fix.

I disagree a "fix" would have brought the few OP MCs into line.
All grav has done is screw over all the weaker ones, add to the fact that only loyalist marines (and cult mechanicus) got it left everyone else in the lurch against the problem MCs

Okay. Partial fix. Even weaker MCs can die in a fire in 7th ed, imo. Too durable for the points compared to other options. When was the last time your "weaker" MC immobilized itself on a shrub? Because my 250 pt tank does that 16% of the time. Or get one-shotted? It's basically impossible outside what? A silencer?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Elbows wrote:
Grav is a really stupid invention of 7th ed. (it doesn't bear any resemblance to the original graviton guns) and should really be completely neutered/changed.

Since lascannons and melta actually work against MCs now, I agree.

Grav should make near to 0 damage, and be a weapon to slow down units for tactical advantage. Slowing those Eldar Vehicles for example, or even stopping them completely.

Obviously, that will make all the people that has put Grav weapons in every single model in their army go nuts. But personally, I don't mind that.

I have two grav cannons, two grav bikers, and a combi-grav sarge biker. That's it.

I have two bike squads with two grav guns each. The rest have meltas. Since meltas and other anti-tank guns seem to be doing what they're made for I wouldn't be upset if grav guns lost their current role, but I definitely wouldn't appreciate it if they did zero damage... lol.

Melta is on my attack bikes and jump dudes and drop pod tacs.

I wasn't talking about literally 0 damage, but making their damage a second thing, being the capacity to slow or stop enemy units the primary role. Even attracting enemies to your lines, like a magnet.
To meele focused Marines, that would be ultra usefull, I think.

HAHA. Like a scorpion hook! Get over here, elf boy!

Reduce movement by half. Have fun moving 3" a turn.

 Galas wrote:
I wasn't talking about literally 0 damage, but making their damage a second thing, being the capacity to slow or stop enemy units the primary role. Even attracting enemies to your lines, like a magnet.
To meele focused Marines, that would be ultra usefull, I think.

That might actually be cool. It would make it basically impossible to avoid CC with my Black Knights.

Make it like a Tau Markerlight in that it just needs to roll hits.

Then make it that a unit that has been affected by 1 or more Grav Hits this turn suffers -1" movement.

How about we keep them 2/3 salvo weapons that still wound based on armor save, and make them cause mortal wounds on a roll of six

 Luciferian wrote:
How about we keep them 2/3 salvo weapons that still wound based on armor save, and make them cause mortal wounds on a roll of six

and why would I ever take a plasmagun instead? that was my biggest problem with grav, they made plasma UTTERLY obselete. I can't think of many armies in which you'd take plasma over grav. Deamons was about it

Yep, I don't have any plasma guns in my army except for the plasma talons on my Black Knights - which basically turned into double the amount of plasma guns overnight with the twin linked rule.

I do kind of expect grav guns to stay basically the same, though. Perhaps 2/3 salvo that wound based on armor save and do one damage, with none of their other special effects. That would make them much less optimal for killing vehicles and MC with a huge amount of wounds, and terrible at killing light infantry. They would absolutely wreck heavy infantry though.

I assume they will probably do something similar to now. Wound on armor save, but now with cover stacking with armor saves and the possibility of lots of invult or special rules, I suspect grave weapons won't be as effective as they used to be.

I am just pulling this out of my ass but I would think it would work like this: Grave weapons Always do not follow te wound equation, instead take the targets armor save and it wound on equal to or greater that number. AV-3. Vehicle types are only wounded on 5s or 6s despite their AV.

Thats jus tmy guess.

How did yon 2nd Ed and 30K handle Grav again?

Talamare wrote:Make it like a Tau Markerlight in that it just needs to roll hits.

Then make it that a unit that has been affected by 1 or more Grav Hits this turn suffers -1" movement.

That's one option. Either it is any model hit by 1 or more Grav Hits suffers -1" Movement, or the unit as a whole. It depends on how prevalent.

Tsol wrote:I assume they will probably do something similar to now. Wound on armor save, but now with cover stacking with armor saves and the possibility of lots of invult or special rules, I suspect grave weapons won't be as effective as they used to be.

I am just pulling this out of my ass but I would think it would work like this: Grave weapons Always do not follow te wound equation, instead take the targets armor save and it wound on equal to or greater that number. AV-3. Vehicle types are only wounded on 5s or 6s despite their AV.

That's just my guess.

Before or after the AP of the Weapon takes affect?

 Luciferian wrote:
Yep, I don't have any plasma guns in my army except for the plasma talons on my Black Knights - which basically turned into double the amount of plasma guns overnight with the twin linked rule.

I do kind of expect grav guns to stay basically the same, though. Perhaps 2/3 salvo that wound based on armor save and do one damage, with none of their other special effects. That would make them much less optimal for killing vehicles and MC with a huge amount of wounds, and terrible at killing light infantry. They would absolutely wreck heavy infantry though.

why would they wreck heavy infantry?
Sure, you wound on armour save value, but if there is no -AP roll, those heavy armoured things are saving on 2s and 3s. That would be just fine by me.

I'd put it in a completely different role: doing damage to heroes that have really high defenses, like so.


Grav Pistol: R12 S* AP M Dmg 1 Pistol 1 - Wounds on a 5+, wounds thus inflicted are mortal.

Grav Gun: R18 S* AP M Dmg 1 Assault 1 - Wounds on a 4+, wounds thus inflicted are mortal.

Grav-Cannon: R24 S* AP M Dmg 1 Heavy 2 - Wounds on a 4+, wounds thus inflicted are mortal.

Grav-Amp: A model equipped with a grav-amp gains +1 to wound with any Grav weapons.

Basically the same. To wound equal to the armour save of the target, Damage 1, AP-3. Shooting profile as it is now. No slowing/initiative changing effects.

They're reasonable against heavy infantry (but less so against anything that has multiple wounds) they can whittle down heavy armour (if you want to devote multiple squads to one target) and lose effectiveness against lighter targets.

With the wound/save mechanic on vehicles, as well as massive numbers of wounds, they're not as OP as they were before.

Graviton guns in 30k. That's it.

 NivlacSupreme wrote:
Graviton guns in 30k. That's it.

How does graviton guns work in 30k?

Crazy Jay wrote:

 NivlacSupreme wrote:
Graviton guns in 30k. That's it.

How does graviton guns work in 30k?

18" small blast, models hit have to take a strength test or suffer a wound, AP4. After the shot you leave the blast marker, and for the next turn it counts as difficult and dangerous terrain. It's also Haywire and Concussive.