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 Tim the Biovore wrote:
I've always felt he just tries to paint them in as wide a spectrum as possible, less about schemes and more just showing off the look of as many colours he can fit. With the consistency of his output, he can't be planning things out too specifically, or he'd have no time for his personal hobby

That's always been my impression too. And I can generally find one or two that I particularly like. The sergeant for this unit and the pale blue armored Veletaris to the left of it are both great.

 Tim the Biovore wrote:
I've always felt he just tries to paint them in as wide a spectrum as possible, less about schemes and more just showing off the look of as many colours he can fit. With the consistency of his output, he can't be planning things out too specifically, or he'd have no time for his personal hobby

Yeah, I mean there are some in there I definitely wouldn't touch, but it gives a pretty reference for the options in terms of colours.

Vegetarian with axes look great! So weird GW refused to show them, and still have only shown their sprue at this point.

"Refused" and "Didn't bother to get a unit painted" are very different things.

I'm surprised there's no discussion of the reviews of The Battle for Beta-Garmon and how GW absolutely borked the Shattered Legion rules.

chaos0xomega wrote:
I'm surprised there's no discussion of the reviews of The Battle for Beta-Garmon and how GW absolutely borked the Shattered Legion rules.

The first review I saw was 30 minutes of useless rambling and then I had to leave the house. And it looks like my favorite "man reads book on camera" channel isn't doing Heresy... got a good link?

I'm old fashioned and read my reviews: https://www.goonhammer.com/goonhammer-review-the-battle-of-beta-garmon/

Obviously without having the rules infront of me, but having read through that self-same review:

SL seems like they'll be (mostly) fine so long as they keep things reasonable. Ergo a two-legion force with most units having something like a 7-3 ratio, or at least removing casualties in such a way that the rules will be intentionally maintained until the unit's really down on its last legs. Some stuff, such as NL dreadnoughts being unable to charge, will have to be straight up house-ruled. The rules can also be made significantly simpler via house rule (check at the start of each turn, not each phase). Stuff only starts getting really hairy if someone's intentionally trying to powergame (they want their squads to be DG during the shooting phase, and have BA in the back pocket for when they WANT to charge, but bounce it around to avoid the draw-back until they want it). Or if players don't approach their squads with the intent of maintaining their combination of bonuses and flaws.

With that said, as that review says, that's pretty bonkers. That something they very much tried to sell the book on would have such cases of extreme near unusability is really disappointing.

Blackshields look great. Plenty of fluffy and thematic rules which will allow for a huge variety of forces. They look so good I'm tempted to create a force of them.

Personally I think the review was right, shattered legions should've been a set of options within the blackshields rules rather than a separate set of rules. Alternatively, the mutable tactics rules should have been locked in on listbuilding rather than being something that changes every phase.

Counter - why is it power gaming? It makes perfect sense to me that DG members would lead in shooting phase while BA would lend their expertise in assault. Isn't it, like, the whole point of Shattered Legions?

And the fix here is so easy, why even have the dumb requirement to have 3 legions in an unit? Simply assign each unit major/minor rule at the start of the game, rebalance them to not have any obvious must haves, there, done, good rules 10 minutes of work later. I agree with goon, writer must have Phil Kelly syndrome to think this terrible mess you can easily WAAAC to be OP if you try hard is any good, too bad GW promotes based on seniority not skill...

Errgghh......those Shattered Legions rules make my head hurt. I can't imagine an actual game with that mess. House rule, house rule, house rule.

Black Sheilds look quite cool, however.

Shattered Legions do honestly sound fun to me if you have the self restraint to not actively work towards having 3 powers swappable at will. I wonder if they'll make Tsons playable...

Blackshields sound fun. All psykers characters would be a nice narrative for post Nikaea era force.

I agree that the SL rules sound a bit hairy but one of our group is buying Beta-Garmon for the Blackshields rules so I'll take a look then.

It does feel like the writers have gone for the "hardcore" SL vibe we see pop up in the novel series which I do appreciate.
I think with a lot of things HH, it's not made for events or tournaments in mind and as such they can go a bit nuts with it.
How that plays out we'll wait and see but they're always optional rules and not core to the game so I'm sure it'll be all right.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Shattered Legions do honestly sound fun to me if you have the self restraint to not actively work towards having 3 powers swappable at will. I wonder if they'll make Tsons playable...

Yea at first glance I bought into the "totally unplayable" part from the Goonhammer article but the more I think about it, the less of a problem I think it will be in actual practice for a certain type of person.

Granted, my playgroup is the type that takes artificer armor on all their sergeants to tank wounds for the unit, so if any of them decided to play Shattered Legions it would be... a whole time.
But for a superior breed like myself, who doesn't have enough brain function to do anything but move models forward, attack the closest unit, and pull the closest models from the enemy as they die, Shattered Legions seems fine?

Spending even 15 seconds deciding which models to pull for "optimal benefits" every time a model dies would be absolutely heinous to play as or against.

edit: just going to add, to be explicit, the "superior breed" comment was a tongue-in-cheek joke at my own expense.

Reading that Goonhammer article they specifically say that "unscrupulous players" can take advantage of the SL rules and honestly yeah but where is that any different to any army in any game?

Chill people will be chill and gremlins will be gremlins.

 Gert wrote:
Reading that Goonhammer article they specifically say that "unscrupulous players" can take advantage of the SL rules and honestly yeah but where is that any different to any army in any game?

Chill people will be chill and gremlins will be gremlins.

Not the worry. The worry is figuring out what each unit does each phase. Every turn I can deal with. But every phase?

I don't see how it would be that hard.

I have 10 Tacticals, 4 Salamanders, 5 Iron Hands, and an Ultramarine. I lose 2 Iron Hands and a Salamander. The Salamanders are now the majority, I apply their rule which I have in my rulebook right in front of me.

The only problem I would foresee is if you pick Legions that are all really similar in paint scheme, which they largely aren't. Maybe if you've decided to do Thousand Sons, Blood Angels, and Word Bearers but then that's on you for being a muppet.

Yea I don't really see an issue, make markers, place the "active" Legion marker next to each unit, swap them out as and when they take casualties, no need to literally count all your models every phase if they're not changing, is there? Start your units with a clear majority, pull the middle legion models first, then the minority legion. Done, you've built something that's barely more complex than regular DA outside corner cases like enemy sniping models to change your rules.

The real problem are the traits that break down on single model units, like Night Lords dreadnoughts not being able to charge at all.

TBH while annoying, it's also very funny.

 Gert wrote:
TBH while annoying, it's also very funny.

"Funny" how? Like, it's annoying, it's functional, and freakout over it is funny. Or it's just funny in general. Not picking a fight. Just looking for your honest oppinion Herty Gerty.

A Dreadnought, a machine of mass slaughter, can't get into combat with more than one enemy because it's scared of a one-on-one fight.

 Gert wrote:
A Dreadnought, a machine of mass slaughter, can't get into combat with more than one enemy because it's scared of a one-on-one fight.

Ok, yeah, that's funny. But you can avoid it by avoiding the 8th Legion. Which is inimical to purposely built armies. So, is the humor solely based on the idiocy of it all?

Edit: So are you just laughing at the rules writers? I'm honestly confused here

Yes, I am laughing at the silly interaction that rule has.

Based on that Goonhammer review, I think we're ALL confused, Gad.

Gert wrote:Yes, I am laughing at the silly interaction that rule has.

Ah. I see.

Manfred von Drakken wrote:Based on that Goonhammer review, I think we're ALL confused, Gad.

No kidding. The basic confusion being: Did they actually play this?

More Legions Imperialis stuff is on pre-order next week with Arvus Lighters, Solar Aux Artillery, Warhounds, Direwolves, Drop Pods, and Land Raiders.

Endryd Haar is also up for pre-order for regular size Heresy.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/03/24/sunday-preview-frozen-skirmishes-necromundan-oddballs-and-reinforcements-for-legions-imperialis/?fbclid=IwAR3nf8kRLrj7Y1_-jcJaUnoArkE3RyxnNcYPCoRa0mtBtoXM0tZ4IcdI9aQ

Sunday Preview – Frozen Skirmishes, Necromundan Oddballs, and Reinforcements for Legions Imperialis

Endryd Haar & some transfers:

Those Rogue Trader era officer markings transfers are finally releasing, sweet

Interesting that they have the field police markings on it. I know it's popped up as an Easter egg in some color plates but we have yet to actually see it detailed as part of a legions standard organization, etc.