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I was curious what people thought of the sisters of Battle this edition. They look strong to me, particularly acts of faith and the zealot rule.



Anyone more experienced with the army want to offer their opinion?

The army is brilliant, flexible, and every unit has it's place. Ignoring the whole 'infinite celestine' issue, I think there is potential for power builds based around mech and infantry and the flexibility and nuance of the AoF system is fantastic.

That said, there are a few quibbles. We are still very fragile though the newfound road-runner esque speed of the army will help mitigate this a lot. We don't have a whole lot of weapon options so outside of combi-plas on sergeants and exorcists we can't really efficiently kill heavy infantry.

The biggest thing though is the poor penitent engine. This unit benefits more than anything else in the army from AoFs, mitigating it's main weakness, skyrocketing it's already frankly ludicrous damage potential into 'one-shot a knight' territory, even just shooting twice would be devastating in certain situations. Except there's no possible way to give them an AoF. The unit in the army that would benefit most can't use 'em

SilverAlien wrote:
Zealot is great however, as the wording indicates it should apply to overwatch as well, which is wonderful for your shooty squads.

Zealot is just on a few Ecclesiarchy units that are not Sisters of Battle.

SilverAlien wrote:
The changes to pistols and heavy weapons make seraphim and retributors stronger.

Not true for seraphims, the pistols rules are actually worse for them: they don't get the extra attack anymore, and they will disengage to shoot just like they did before.

ERJAK wrote:
We are still very fragile though the newfound road-runner esque speed of the army will help mitigate this a lot.

Well, the rhinos and immolators can't benefit from Acts of Faith, and neither can units that starts the turn embarked, so I don't really agree there with them being fast except for Celestine/Seraphims.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

SilverAlien wrote:
Zealot is great however, as the wording indicates it should apply to overwatch as well, which is wonderful for your shooty squads.

Zealot is just on a few Ecclesiarchy units that are not Sisters of Battle.

SilverAlien wrote:
The changes to pistols and heavy weapons make seraphim and retributors stronger.

Not true for seraphims, the pistols rules are actually worse for them: they don't get the extra attack anymore, and they will disengage to shoot just like they did before.

ERJAK wrote:
We are still very fragile though the newfound road-runner esque speed of the army will help mitigate this a lot.

Well, the rhinos and immolators can't benefit from Acts of Faith, and neither can units that starts the turn embarked, so I don't really agree there with them being fast except for Celestine/Seraphims.

Nope, rhinos and immos can both get Celestine's AND imagifiers AoF due to some clever wording on GW's part, they just don't get the turn roll. Also unless they FAQ it you get to aof in the order you want so you can rocket-girl celestine up to launch a vanguarded dominion squad 12 more inches down field so they can disembark.

Oh these girls are fast now. A mate had the leaked rules at club night the other night so we had a small game just to get a taste for the new edition; and holy moly! We just did HQ and 2 troops game (though I took an imagifier just to try it out). At the end of the first turn, thanks to faith and incredible advance rolls in both faith and movement phase, my basic sister foot slogging squad was right on his deployment line. ( I'm calling start of turn 'faith phase' so I never forget to use them.)
Foot slogging blob sisters will be able to keep pace with our transports...let that sink in.

While seraphim dud lose out on having extra attack in close combat with the pistol rule changes; they can use them in shooting phase in combat too now let us remember! They can use faith to shoot in combat, jump out, and then shoot again in shooting phase. Their potential damage output has actually increased. Their basic tactics haven't chamged- still wanna be out of combat, but they're doubling down on those d6 hand flamers or inferno pistols now.

The imagifiers work as well as you'd expect. 5 turns and 2 activations. Not great but better than no chance at more.
Sisters still play much the same way- stay the hell away from combat unless youre a ministorum combat unit.
Faith has just given us the tools to close the gap and be where we need to be (that 12" sweet spot).

There are some things in our lists I don't like - like points for penitent engines and their loss of invo, exorcist missiles doing only d3 damage, basic sister squad size cap down to 15.

I do not feel however that we got shafted. There are some gems in there. I think the biggest thing going foe us is the fact that every army has been hit across the board and the playing field feels much more even.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Not true for seraphims, the pistols rules are actually worse for them: they don't get the extra attack anymore, and they will disengage to shoot just like they did before.

Can't they shoot with both their pistol in close combat in addition to their single CC attack? In that case, they have become much more dangerous in CC. 2 S 4 attack plus 1 attack at S 3 is much better than two S 3 close combat attack. Thanks to weilding two pistols they won much from this change in the rules.

epronovost wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Not true for seraphims, the pistols rules are actually worse for them: they don't get the extra attack anymore, and they will disengage to shoot just like they did before.

Can't they shoot with both their pistol in close combat in addition to their single CC attack? In that case, they have become much more dangerous in CC. 2 S 4 attack plus 1 attack at S 3 is much better than two S 3 close combat attack. Thanks to weilding two pistols they won much from this change in the rules.

You can shoot pistols in close combat...in the shooting phase. So they have to survive a round for the rule to matter to them. Honestly they're best at hunting either light vehicles or chaff depending on loadout. With AoF they're one of the few things DE and Harlie vehicles can't really outrun.

From my briefest of looks at them they seem pretty solid. However my two big issues are

1) AoF are one unit per turn (This is how I read it and am happy to be wrong)
2) Pen engines don't have Shield of Faith anymore, which imo gave them a lot more life expectancy

 captain bloody fists wrote:
From my briefest of looks at them they seem pretty solid. However my two big issues are

1) AoF are one unit per turn (This is how I read it and am happy to be wrong)
2) Pen engines don't have Shield of Faith anymore, which imo gave them a lot more life expectancy

1) True, but you can use Celestine and Imagifers for additional AoF each turn.
2) I'm not entirely sure that you can, but using AoF on PenEngines will make them something to fear, and nobody expects PenEngines to survive anyways.

I think they look fun to play, personally holding out to see the points cost of my six repressors before I get too geeked. I like the idea of buying Repentia in three's to leave hanging behind other squads as a fun welcoming commitee for everyone trying to charge my Sisters blobs.

Is it me or is Celestine insanely good for her cost?
Granted, she's only T3, but she has a 2+/4+, 7 wounds (and can regain d3 each turn on a 2+) and on a 2+ she gets back up on full wounds after being killed the first time.
Offensively, she has a Heavy Flamer and her sword is basically a Power Fist with 1 less strength that doesn't give her any penalty to hit.
And that's on top of moving 12" and having various other auras and buffs.

Is there ever a reason not to take her?


That said, her bodyguards are quite expensive. Do you think they're worth getting?

So trying to wrap my head around some wording for AoF on some units. I know the one we get each turn specifies that they have to have the AoF to be able to use it. However Celestine's says they have to have Adepta Sororitas keyword and the Imagifier has Order.

Does this mean we can Aof our vehicles? I know Pen Engines would be out since they have neither.

 vipoid wrote:
Is it me or is Celestine insanely good for her cost?
Granted, she's only T3, but she has a 2+/4+, 7 wounds (and can regain d3 each turn on a 2+) and on a 2+ she gets back up on full wounds after being killed the first time.
Offensively, she has a Heavy Flamer and her sword is basically a Power Fist with 1 less strength that doesn't give her any penalty to hit.
And that's on top of moving 12" and having various other auras and buffs.

Is there ever a reason not to take her?

That said, her bodyguards are quite expensive. Do you think they're worth getting?

She seems like an auto take imo. The act of faith and boost to shield of faith alone make her exceptional for her cost.

I'd take a single bodyguard, as that allows you a regenerating 2w buffer. Both might be better, but largely seems unneeded.

LykanLunatik wrote:
So trying to wrap my head around some wording for AoF on some units. I know the one we get each turn specifies that they have to have the AoF to be able to use it. However Celestine's says they have to have Adepta Sororitas keyword and the Imagifier has Order.

Does this mean we can Aof our vehicles? I know Pen Engines would be out since they have neither.

I'm using AoS as the baseline here. Keyword usage is very deliberate. It's how buffs/combos are built. Both intentionally have different keyword abilities to allow for more variations (in turn the possibility of more variance in armies on the table).

So yes, if the vehicle has the appropriate keyword it can be buffed.

So basically take Celestine or be damned.

 dracpanzer wrote:

 captain bloody fists wrote:
From my briefest of looks at them they seem pretty solid. However my two big issues are

1) AoF are one unit per turn (This is how I read it and am happy to be wrong)
2) Pen engines don't have Shield of Faith anymore, which imo gave them a lot more life expectancy

1) True, but you can use Celestine and Imagifers for additional AoF each turn.
2) I'm not entirely sure that you can, but using AoF on PenEngines will make them something to fear, and nobody expects PenEngines to survive anyways.

I think they look fun to play, personally holding out to see the points cost of my six repressors before I get too geeked. I like the idea of buying Repentia in three's to leave hanging behind other squads as a fun welcoming commitee for everyone trying to charge my Sisters blobs.

2) Possibly, sometimes though that Shield of Faith saved my Engines... oh well.

yeah i'm waiting on the Repressor points now as well. i have two of them lined up ready to go. I think i might be investing in some Repentia with this edition.

LykanLunatik wrote:
So trying to wrap my head around some wording for AoF on some units. I know the one we get each turn specifies that they have to have the AoF to be able to use it. However Celestine's says they have to have Adepta Sororitas keyword and the Imagifier has Order.

Does this mean we can Aof our vehicles? I know Pen Engines would be out since they have neither.

No AOF can only be used by units with the AOF rule. The Vehicles (as far I as recall when looking) do not have the AOF rules and are thus ineligable.

What it does mean is that Celestine's AOF works on any unit regardless of Order while the Imaginer only works on units of the same order (which can't be Celestine sine she doesn't have an Order keyword).

 alextroy wrote:

LykanLunatik wrote:
So trying to wrap my head around some wording for AoF on some units. I know the one we get each turn specifies that they have to have the AoF to be able to use it. However Celestine's says they have to have Adepta Sororitas keyword and the Imagifier has Order.

Does this mean we can Aof our vehicles? I know Pen Engines would be out since they have neither.

No AOF can only be used by units with the AOF rule. The Vehicles (as far I as recall when looking) do not have the AOF rules and are thus ineligable.

What it does mean is that Celestine's AOF works on any unit regardless of Order while the Imaginer only works on units of the same order (which can't be Celestine sine she doesn't have an Order keyword).

The turn AoF only works on units with AoF, Celestine's works on anything with 'adepta sororitas' and imagifiers work on anything with '<order>'; regardless of the AoF rules by RAW. Go read it again if you don't believe me but nothing in the AoF rule prevents non-AoF units from benefiting from Celestine or Imagifiers so long as they meet THEIR requirements.

I think the 2nd sentence in Acts of Faith makes both Celestine and the Imaginer's ability fall within the limitations for the general rules for who can use Acts of Faith.

I'm leaning towards it being a mistake, or oversight. I'd like to it to be otherwise, but it reads against the intent of the ability, to me.

edit: nevermind, I'm reading the wrong page.

 alextroy wrote:
I think the 2nd sentence in Acts of Faith makes both Celestine and the Imaginer's ability fall within the limitations for the general rules for who can use Acts of Faith.

Nope, that second sentence is entirely related to the 2+ role. The only stipulations they put on other AoF sources is that you can't use an AoF more than once per unit per turn.

And yes, it could very well be an oversight but if it is A) Sisters are massively weaker and B) imagifiers would be overpriced useless garbage.

I don't see how not being able to use AOF on vehicles suddenly makes SOB suck.

 alextroy wrote:
I don't see how not being able to use AOF on vehicles suddenly makes SOB suck.

I suppose they just revert to how they've always been.

at least we still have Shield Of Faith on all of our vehicles (minus the Pen Engine and possibly the Repressor)

ERJAK wrote:
And yes, it could very well be an oversight but if it is A) Sisters are massively weaker and B) imagifiers would be overpriced useless garbage.

That's one way to say “GW can't for the life of them write rules that are clear and understandable”…

Just some of my first impressions opinions (I have played sisters since came out, but i took like 2 editions off so with a grain of salt)

First in regards to Act of Faith: My opinion, only models with AOF in there abilities section can use it. It may be debatable with Celestine or imagifier, but even from them I would still only use on models/units with the AOF ability (good to debate for GW when do there faq in december, however if you used this I would think you are trying to exploite rules and though would still play/finish the game, would leave a sour taste at playing you again).

Multiple named character (celestine): funny for an oversite but obviously ludicrous

Repentia: My sisters order is a derivative of the Order of the Valorus Heart, so I have alot of repentia (just got some more before i sore the repentia eviscerator stats, so at 60 or so I think). Disappointed with the repentia eviscerator stats tbh, maybe with a priest and mistress nearby, but points add up...

Penitant engines: I have alot of these (My order) Without AOF will I think be ok if i take more priority targets, otherwise wayyy to expensive (do we pay just +40 for the buzz or is it +80? Cause have 2? If + 80 ridiculous)

Not that I use to many (have converted all mine to power axe/bolt pistol) but the fact that they made one of the only sister superiors can still get invalid (eg boltgun/power sword model. Moreover, the older power maul/combi weap is also invalid) is laughable.

I like how they gave AOF to crusaders (not that would come into play much but is fun to have). I like the model, have a far few. Should be an ok tar pit/ absorbe fire unit (as much as can tarpit now, if not is fun to run anyway).

Rest will wait until some testing. Just some quick thoughts. I hope all have fun.
Cheers,
SC

 alextroy wrote:
I don't see how not being able to use AOF on vehicles suddenly makes SOB suck.

It makes Imagifiers suck and it makes Sisters weaker, not necessarily bad. It just means that you end up ignoring AoF outside of Celestine and Retributors. You end up in a situation where this really cool fun thing sisters can do is so hard to do anything meaningful with that it just isn't worth.

ERJAK wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
I don't see how not being able to use AOF on vehicles suddenly makes SOB suck.

It makes Imagifiers suck and it makes Sisters weaker, not necessarily bad. It just means that you end up ignoring AoF outside of Celestine and Retributors. You end up in a situation where this really cool fun thing sisters can do is so hard to do anything meaningful with that it just isn't worth.

So just to be clear - you are saying that letting a unit of Retributors or a Dominion squad shoot twice is bad? Seems weird to me.

Imagifiers are definitely stronger if they let you use AoF on vehicles, but I don't think they are garbage if they don't, because for the most part it seems better to use those extra AoF on allowing more sisters to shoot. Or if the Repentia squad ends up being good instead of overpriced like my first impression, letting them fight twice in the Fight phase.


Some initial impressions from me - who hasn't played the game at all or Sisters since 3rd Edition - but hey, brand new game!

The Stormbolter option on Dominion squads is actually kind of interesting. At first I was looking at a squad of Flamers + Combi Flamer because Flamer hype is real yo. That puts out 5d6 auto hitting S4 shots. Not too shabby at all - averages 18 Str 4 hits including the 50% chance to hit with the combi bolter. Clocks in at 97 points.

Then I thought about the Stormbolter. 5 Stormbolters (4 from special weapons, one from the Ranged list for Superior) clock in at only 70 points. At 12" range, 4" longer than Flamer range you end up getting 20 shots for about 13-14 hits. Only a few hits less, but you get longer range and at 12"-24" range you end up still getting 6-7 hits out of them. The saved 27 points, the way you can take the full 10 man squad and still be effective at every range from flamer range up to 24" and the way it potentially combos with the Cannoness all make it seem like Stormbolters may edge out Flamers in Dominion squads.

I still think it is a good idea to match up units with intent even if you can select different targets just because of ideal ranges. If you have a bunch of Flamers/Meltas adding a Multi Melta just makes you want to hang back some. Though I could see dropping Multi Meltas into a squad that had a Stormbolter. Combi-Plasma works pretty well with Multi Meltas I think, Plasma Pistols work well with Meltas. I don't think you want Inferno Pistols on anyone but Seraphim, but I could be wrong about that.

In regards to squad sizes - other than the big 15 Sister blob squad for if you need to hold a point, I think Retributors and Dominion squads should be full 10 sister squads in Rhinos, while troop Sisters should be 5-6 sisters in Immolators. This maximizes the special weapon options for the Battle Sisters, maximizes your troop choices for those sweet sweet CPs, and provides extra bodies for protection for the special and heavy weapons on Dominion/Retributor squads. It also makes Dominion Squads better at using their Vanguard move to take and hold objectives. It also let's you make the most of Divine Guidance - you get the heavy/special weapon shots and depending on ranges probably get a bunch of extra bolter shots too. You usually won't want to be wasting act of faith on the line sisters.

Exorcist vs Retributors is a matter of range and toughness vs more reliable offense. I think I'd probably go 1 Exorcist per 2 Retributor squads, or maybe 2/3. Though it is worth taking into account the cost/potential survivability of the transport too. 10 Retributors with Multi Meltas and a CombiPlasma Superior is 213 points to the Exorcist 166 with HK. Add in the 83 for a Rhino and Exorcists are much cheaper. However, the Retributors are putting out a lot more firepower. Hmm. Still not sure on this.

Also not sure if it's worth going the Heavy Flamer route with them. Heavy Flamers + Combi Flamer with 10 Retributors is 169 points. The Str 5 Ap -1 is much, much, much, much better than the Str 4 AP nothing. On the other hand though, Sisters have loads of anti-infantry so maybe it's better to spam that and leave the Retributors to the Multi Melta job?

Penitent Engines are the other thing to consider. 129 points because you have to buy the weapons (just the one buzz bladeS as someone was asking above - their unit description clearly doesn't say two buzz blades, so much like scything talons covers "two" with one profile, the buzz blades cover both arms with one profile). That's very price - but they also bring effectively an Imagifier along the for the ride, with a 4+ chance to get effectively the extra fight Act of Faith. They are fairly tough and bring a 4 Str 10 AP - 3 D 3 with rerolls if there is any charging going on, plus the 2d6 auto hit Str 5 Ap - 1. Just so expensive though, and even though they are 7" move, they can't Act of Faith for move or get transported. To compare, Space Marine Dreadnaught is 148 with CCW, Heavy Flamer and Assault Cannon. Not exactly the same but close as it gets there. Dreadnaught seems better over all - but the Penitent Engine might be better in close combat. Both wound each other on 3+, Dread gets a 2+ against Toughness 6, Penitent only 5 or less. Penitent gets the potential double fight phase which really blows the Dread out the water - but Dread is tougher, with a better save (but no invlunerable) smoke launchers and a very good ranged weapon. Hmm.

Seraphim seem pretty fun. You can fall back over the enemy unit on your turn, letting you get past screens and put those hand flamers or inferno pistols where it will hurt the most. Potentially even letting you get characters as the closest unit. There are some tough character units out there, but not many of them will enjoy eating either 4d6 Str 3 hits or 4 Str 8 AP - 4 D D6 shots. Plus another Str 7/8 AP-3 D 1/2 from the Plasma Pistol. Fun note - if you are in melee using the pistol ability, the Inferno Pistol will get the roll two dice pick the highest melta benefit.

*EDIT* One last thought. What do people think about Inquisitor and Assassin allies? The Culexus and Inquisitor Karamazov in particular seem interesting to me in that they synergize with the Deny the Witch that all the Sisters stuff get. Giving -1 to 3 to their psychic test makes us rolling a d6 seem a lot more feasible to deny. Average roll on a 2d6-3 is like 4? Most psychic powers don't seem strong enough to bother, but some of them do actually seem worth preventing or hassling.

Huh. Just had a thought - what about taking a Cannonness with an Eviscerator, running them with a squad of Repentia and having her charge first to absorb Overwatch fire? Against most Overwatch she won't die, then you can have the much more fragile Repentia and Mistress charge in after. Worth the cost?

The Happy Anarchist wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
I don't see how not being able to use AOF on vehicles suddenly makes SOB suck.

It makes Imagifiers suck and it makes Sisters weaker, not necessarily bad. It just means that you end up ignoring AoF outside of Celestine and Retributors. You end up in a situation where this really cool fun thing sisters can do is so hard to do anything meaningful with that it just isn't worth.

So just to be clear - you are saying that letting a unit of Retributors or a Dominion squad shoot twice is bad? Seems weird to me.

I guess I should have been clearer. Not being able to use imagifiers on vehicles means that only Celestine, retributors, and Seraphim will really see benefit from AoF and makes imagifiers scale poorly.

Dominions have to be alive and disembarked at the start of your turn to benefit from AoF and the Vanguard rule makes giving them an imagier impractical. The turn role or Celestines AoF could be very powerful but setting up for double shooting with them requires either their vehicle being blown up and them being ignored, or being on the table within 12" of an enemy unit for your opponents turn. The movement effectt is still powerful but you'll rarely get double shooting.

Basic battle sisters in blobs of 15 could see some good use of AoFs but in a 'grind it out' sort of way, not anything exciting. Same goes for Celestians and all the characters.

Repentia will almost never get to double attack anyway, due to having to survive 2 rounds of combat, and giving them the double move AoF requires them to be on the table at the start of your turn and again, they don't get much out of an imagifier because they can't use one on disembark or benefit the turn they charge both a priest and a MoR do more for them unless you're footslogging.

Basically running imagifiers without retributors or seraphim or infantry blobs is a tad wasteful and Dominions and repentia benefit more from other similarly pointed characters.

TL: DR, no vehicle AoF means 1 imagifier in lists with 5+ tanks rather than 3-4 and doesn't effect infantry heavy lists much.

So question about Celestine. She has a 4+ invuln. But her beacon of faith gives all Adepta Sororitas units +1 invuln, which she is also. Now AoS allows the bearer of the rule to also be affected (Orruk megaboss counts as an ironjawz unit for number of ironjawz) and I've seen people say that Captains give themselves the reroll abilities. Does this work the same way or does it work differently because it says (Friendly Adepta sororitas)?

Just to confirm...yeah you DON'T get AoF on vehicles.




About 18 minutes in.

Carnith wrote:
So question about Celestine. She has a 4+ invuln. But her beacon of faith gives all Adepta Sororitas units +1 invuln, which she is also. Now AoS allows the bearer of the rule to also be affected (Orruk megaboss counts as an ironjawz unit for number of ironjawz) and I've seen people say that Captains give themselves the reroll abilities. Does this work the same way or does it work differently because it says (Friendly Adepta sororitas)?

It does effect her, but it only gives +1 to the shield of faith rule. So it gives her a 5++ and is pointless since she gets a 4++ from her armor.

 mmzero252 wrote:
Just to confirm...yeah you DON'T get AoF on vehicles.




About 18 minutes in.

Carnith wrote:
So question about Celestine. She has a 4+ invuln. But her beacon of faith gives all Adepta Sororitas units +1 invuln, which she is also. Now AoS allows the bearer of the rule to also be affected (Orruk megaboss counts as an ironjawz unit for number of ironjawz) and I've seen people say that Captains give themselves the reroll abilities. Does this work the same way or does it work differently because it says (Friendly Adepta sororitas)?

It does effect her, but it only gives +1 to the shield of faith rule. So it gives her a 5++ and is pointless since she gets a 4++ from her armor.

Super sad...but hey, at least I was right about only 1 imagifier being any good!