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So with 8th the days of having to take troops are gone so I'm thinking about a devestator army ultra marines style and have a few questions
1. How playable would a majority devastator army be backed up with contemptor dreads?
2. Is there a way to make this fluffy?
3. Am I missing anything in the new org charts


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Wow 9th company is basically this.... so next question is how viable is it

I don't think anyone can tell you how viable it is right now.

With the ability to split fire, with a devastator heavy army, you will definitely have the right shooting tool for the job on the table. If you toss in the right HQ, many of them can be doing some rerolling.

The average marine is going to be very, very cheap compared with some of the other stuff that's available. So you might be able to drown your opponent in marines.

But, keep in mind, many armies have a way to reliably pull off turn 1 charges. For instance, Orks and Tyranids, we've seen that they can do this by rolling a 9 to charge. Your devastator squads will go up in a puff of smoke in melee.

And once you start spreading out (objectives/missions) you're vulnerable.

Fluff wise, make it a 9th company. That company is the devastator reserve company, made up from 10 devastator squads.

Like Marmatag said, assault heavy armies will absolutely decimate you and you won't be able to do a thing about it.

It's not an "I Win" button for sure, but definitely viable. 8th moves a lot of the tactics from list building to the actual tabletop, so mere theoryhammer won't get you as far as it use to.

I would say that if you have contemptors, deploy them in front of the devs as a screening force; Dreadnoughts, even with only one fist, will hold up a lot better than your devastators. Hopefully this can deter most of the enemy's attempt at a first turn charge. The next turn will be highly dependent on who you're facing but you should be able to wipe out things that would make a follow up charge, or at least mitigate them.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
It's not an "I Win" button for sure, but definitely viable. 8th moves a lot of the tactics from list building to the actual tabletop, so mere theoryhammer won't get you as far as it use to.

I would say that if you have contemptors, deploy them in front of the devs as a screening force; Dreadnoughts, even with only one fist, will hold up a lot better than your devastators. Hopefully this can deter most of the enemy's attempt at a first turn charge. The next turn will be highly dependent on who you're facing but you should be able to wipe out things that would make a follow up charge, or at least mitigate them.

yeah this is what i was thinking. Use the dreads to deter CC. I have one contemptor right now. but i'll be getting two more. Basically pairing them up with each squad. Not sure if i should get two more contemptors with assault cannons and DCCW or get two ironclads to really counter charges.

also considering characters for Close combat support. but don't want to go too off the rails. seems like i could do a really fluffy 10th company.

Which leads me to the next question. Full devastator squads of 10 models and 4 Heavy weapons or small squads of 5 for maximum Heavy weapon deployment?

I think full devastator will have issues, that said the best solution would be mixed weapons. las cannons and plasma will do great agains vehicle and walker spam or terminator heavy but be useless against a horde army as you just can't get the shots to matter. I would also if you have the models be giving razerbacks as they seem pretty amazing for the points fo assault cannons and can zip around trying to take objectives for you along with the dreds.

 G00fySmiley wrote:
I think full devastator will have issues, that said the best solution would be mixed weapons. las cannons and plasma will do great agains vehicle and walker spam or terminator heavy but be useless against a horde army as you just can't get the shots to matter. I would also if you have the models be giving razerbacks as they seem pretty amazing for the points fo assault cannons and can zip around trying to take objectives for you along with the dreds.

i like this idea.... but that does lock them into the 5 man squads... or can i take a 10 man dev squad and two razorbacks to carry both split squads? If i can do that, that might just be what i do.

you are probably looking at spearhead detachment
1-2 hq 0-3 troops 0-2 eites 0-2 fast attack, 3-6 havy and 0-2 flyers.

you can take one razorback per choice. remember though you can take devs in squads of 5 and up to 6 -of these 5 man squads which can then each take a razorback. also the hq if i am not mistaken can take one as well

I also second the Razorback idea. At best, they provide an extra set of heavy weapons (remember, twin barrels now!) relatively cheaply. At worst, you can use them as more screening for your devs.

Razorbacks, heavy bolter squads, sternies with heavy flamers: all great anti-assault units with the overwatch potential, as well as mowing down hordes while your assaulted squads fall back. Don't forget to take a captain for that re-rolling to-hit within 6".

really liking the razorback idea.... BUT .... this is cheaphammer.... i have no funds and only marine bodies terminators and the contemptor (betrayal at calth)

Assault cannon on the termies works as a substitute in a pinch, their stormbolter shots aren't to be sniffed at either for overwatch.

I was thinking of putting something like this together. Came up with the following. Obviously, without the vehicles, this won't work as well. Although if you have drop pods those could be subbed in.

Spearhead Detachment

2 HQ choices, both:

Captain 76 pts
Stormbolter

6 Heavy Support choices All:
Devastators 207 pts
2 Missile Launchers, 2 Lascannons
2 Lighting Claws, Combi-Flamer on the Sergeant

6 Dedicated Transports All:
Razorback 100 pts
Assault Cannon

gendoikari87 wrote:
really liking the razorback idea.... BUT .... this is cheaphammer.... i have no funds and only marine bodies terminators and the contemptor (betrayal at calth)

if not playing in a shop or club where you need the right models... go to a toy store or model store and get a few approximately sized toy tanks for a few bucks. or build with plasticard and some time for super cheap
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/434394.page

Drager wrote:
I was thinking of putting something like this together. Came up with the following. Obviously, without the vehicles, this won't work as well. Although if you have drop pods those could be subbed in.

Spearhead Detachment

2 HQ choices, both:

Captain 76 pts
Stormbolter

6 Heavy Support choices All:
Devastators 207 pts
2 Missile Launchers, 2 Lascannons
2 Lighting Claws, Combi-Flamer on the Sergeant

6 Dedicated Transports All:
Razorback 100 pts
Assault Cannon

I just did the math on those 100 point razorbacks.... they put out roughly the same firepower as the devestator squad itself....

gendoikari87 wrote:

Drager wrote:
I was thinking of putting something like this together. Came up with the following. Obviously, without the vehicles, this won't work as well. Although if you have drop pods those could be subbed in.

Spearhead Detachment

2 HQ choices, both:

Captain 76 pts
Stormbolter

6 Heavy Support choices All:
Devastators 207 pts
2 Missile Launchers, 2 Lascannons
2 Lighting Claws, Combi-Flamer on the Sergeant

6 Dedicated Transports All:
Razorback 100 pts
Assault Cannon

I just did the math on those 100 point razorbacks.... they put out roughly the same firepower as the devestator squad itself....

mathhammer wise assault cannon razerbacks are one of the (if not the) best points per model you can spend

I'm only doing 1000 points though so something like

Captain

Contemptor dread with assault cannon
Dread with twin lascannon and ml

3x devestator squads with 2 heavy bolters 2 missile launchers
3x razorback with twin assault cannon

looks pretty strong

Looks nice.

Mathhammering the stats the missile launcher is really really gak so Going lascannons instead


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HQ
Captain in Gravis armor armour - 102

Elites
Contemptor with Assault Cannon - 123
Apothecary - 55

Heavy Support
5x Devestator squad with 2HB and 2LC Taking Razorback with Twin assault cannon- 235
5x Devestator squad with 2HB and 2LC Taking Razorback with Twin assault cannon- 235
5x Devestator squad with 2HB and 2LC Taking Razorback with Twin assault cannon- 235

Total: 985


Suggestions for the remaining 15 points?

You have to buy the wargear options on the captain, his load out is somethint around 150 points. Same for the contemptor, who has to vuy his dccw, combi bolter, and assault cannon.

 Crazyterran wrote:
You have to buy the wargear options on the captain, his load out is somethint around 150 points. Same for the contemptor, who has to vuy his dccw, combi bolter, and assault cannon.

where does it say that? You don't have to do that for other squads . The assault cannon yes but it clearly states it comes with the combat weapon iirc

The alternative is you have to buy bolters genades etc for your tac squads and that's a bit much

in 8th you always have to buy gear now. it is base guy in armor, then add things. sometimes they cost zero like I believe bolters and bolt pistols and frag/crack grenades, you just pay 0 points for them. honestly though I would suggest power levels for the first few matches

 G00fySmiley wrote:
in 8th you always have to buy gear now. it is base guy in armor, then add things. sometimes they cost zero like I believe bolters and bolt pistols and frag/crack grenades, you just pay 0 points for them. honestly though I would suggest power levels for the first few matches

that is fething slowed


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Actually reading the rules I think you guys are wrong on this the units state they come with them. I'm going to play it that way until I see a faq from hw that states otherwise


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That or exploit the obvious game exploit we have now that warhead costs the same regardless of who it goes on because now if you put it on more elite units you get more bang for your points

No, they are right, you have to pay for everything now. That is why so many basic weapons cost 0 points.

A Land Raider has to buy its lascannons and heavy bolters, even though they are listed as the default wargear. The reason for this is that if a weapon turns out to be over/under powered, they can adjust the points cost for that weapon separately without having to update the entry for every unit that uses it.

 Karhedron wrote:
No, they are right, you have to pay for everything now. That is why so many basic weapons cost 0 points.

A Land Raider has to buy its lascannons and heavy bolters, even though they are listed as the default wargear. The reason for this is that if a weapon turns out to be over/under powered, they can adjust the points cost for that weapon separately without having to update the entry for every unit that uses it.

and they can't jus include that cost on the unit profile why?


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I mean this is a seriously stupid move on gws part. But not their first stupid move

Just having single costs for war gear will mean better point use within a codex for more high end units. Especially for close combat weapons where different models get different numbers of attacks

The reason they did so is that they didn't want to list a separate price for each different weapon. Not all units actually pay for their wargear (a lot of it costs 0) but the ones that do and also have options would require the new wargear's cost recalculated.

So say A captain in Terminator Armor wants lightning claws and so does an Assault Terminator. If the Assault Terminator's cost included the lightning claws then it would be free for him, but the captain still needs to pay *something* to replace his storm bolter and Power Weapon for the lightning claws. In the old system his own entry would list the cost or point you towards the armory which usually only him, the librarian and chaplain has access to, while the Assault Terminator get his claws by default and has the cost already in his price.

The new system allows for one price for both the captain and the Assault Terminator, with each individual unit's base price adjusted in anticipation of the wargear they can get (hence why an Assault Terminator costs more than a normal Terminator).

Is it a good replacement for the old method? Debatable. It is certainly easier to write it. Personally I haven't found an issue tallying up points; you just count how many pieces of a wargear exists in your army, how many of each body, and so forth. But other people are annoyed by it. However it's most certainly a stop-gap thing because they had to push out the indexes fast. When the actual Codexes drop I'd expect a return to the old way of writing.

depends how your group l plays. for now mine is using power levels and it is working just fine. we re int the same ballpark and aside from a few obvious duds being overcosted as a whole games are fair and usually end closely. if your club, local game store, or community of friends are sticking to points for everything I would suggest having them try to power levels, it gets you in games quicker.

in narrative events my club is working in a fun change. we are using power levels. you earn 3 points for participating in a game, 2 points for winning, plus the objectives add points. you can spend points to change wargear before a battle. say you had an assault cannon on 3 razerbacks and know you are going to face an imperial knight list. then maybe you spend 2 points to swap 2 assault cannons for lascannons that battle. the person with the most points at the end of the campaign wins (really just means your faction won the battle and the write up will speak of their great victory)

Oh I forgot about power levels..... might have to try that out