Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Anyone else feeling a bit unsettled by the necessity of so many HQ units if you want to use a bunch of Troops and/or gain a decent amount of command points? The least restricted army for this seems to be Space Marines, and they only get 3 different guys before they start having to double up. It's even worse for armies like admech, who not only have just a single non-named-character choice, but only have one model that can represent it. Seems to me like we're going to see a lot of armies with multiples of the same model, which is kinda goofy both from a modelling and fluff perspective. What self-respecting Ork Warboss is going to share leadership of a Warband with another Warboss, instead of kicking his head in to prove who's REALLY in charge, before leading the boyz into battle?

I wonder if it might have been a better idea to have made a lot of the now-Elites models that were previously part of units move into some sort of sub-HQ role, which you can fill additional HQ slots with once you've already got your warlord?

I've only looked at AM, so YMMV, but there's enough want to take HQ units there to make up for the need to take many of them. Since platoons kind of went away, the org structure got a little flatter, and so I feel like company commanders are going to supplant platoon commanders, particularly since we have plenty of other good stuff in the elite slot choice to take rather than the PC.

You will have to look through your 8e codex. I cannot imagine an Ork player not taking a Weirdboy for the deep strike. Unless i'm totally mistaken and these guys aren't HQs in 8e. The leaks were taken down.

Meh, I'm ready to model up as many Librarians as it takes...

 daedalus wrote:
I've only looked at AM, so YMMV, but there's enough want to take HQ units there to make up for the need to take many of them. Since platoons kind of went away, the org structure got a little flatter, and so I feel like company commanders are going to supplant platoon commanders, particularly since we have plenty of other good stuff in the elite slot choice to take rather than the PC.

Which just leads to armies where multiple captains are running the show while their lieutenants are nowhere to be found. Or, for patrol detachments, captains leading a single squad of Guard around.

Platoon Commanders should absolutely have been HQs.

 Luciferian wrote:
Meh, I'm ready to model up as many Librarians as it takes...

Considering you can only attempt to cast smite more than once - every other spell is one attempt per turn - you might consider techmarines.

I had a similar impression at first, but there's something sort of obvious about command points coming from more HQ's.

As a chaos player with easy access to cheap Heralds, I'm perfectly fine with taking more.

If you plan to run Sisters, be prepared to have Celestine, maybe Uriah, and then infinite canonesses. That's all they got for HQs.

Imperials have a lot of options though. While not particularly synergistic you could always add cheap Inquisitors.

My Nids are happy. Between the broodlord being a HQ choice, Tervigons no longer becoming troops and Walking Hive Tyrants becoming more useful, there's no shortage of potential HQ choices.

Can always throw in some non upgraded chaplains, or such to add up the Hq requirement with the traditional captain blingous in about 6 relics and upgrades.

Emp champ, helbeot and chaplains could make a nasty Templets list in CC.

Actually, I'm happy that I can now take more HQ's freely.

I thought 2 HQ's was very restrictive.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Imperials have a lot of options though. While not particularly synergistic you could always add cheap Inquisitors.

They have a lot of options and not many things have downsides to taking a general imperial list (for now). I'm not really bothered that sisters have only 3 HQ choices with 2 being unique characters. We still have yet to see what individual codices will do to the game in terms of relics, abilities, new FoCs, etc etc.

I literally threw 2 hqs into a 1500 points and netted me a 3 command points like it was nothing.

im also finding that +3 command points is more than enough at those points.

also to note that it seems every HQ also hands out a fairly significant bonus to units near by universally meaning they are not really a waste of points ether.

 Formerly Wu wrote:
Which just leads to armies where multiple captains are running the show while their lieutenants are nowhere to be found. Or, for patrol detachments, captains leading a single squad of Guard around.

Platoon Commanders should absolutely have been HQs.

Well there is a wide range of ranks that can fill the two options. Platoon commanders can be Lieutenants or 2nd Lieutenants. For the Company Command, you could have Captains, Majors, Colonels or even Generals if you want. There is even the freedom to use any ranks from history or make up your own. You could have a Shield-Centurion leading your 100 man platoons. Glancing at the 5th Edition codex, they give some examples of different company commander titles: Major, Byzarr, Hetman, Spear-Chief, Prime-Warden or High Preator. The cultural variance across the Imperium is extreme, far greater than the amount of cultures currently found on Earth. Just because Cadian equipment is common in games, doesn't mean that the meat wielding it is the same at all.

I think that if I ever field multiple commanders, I will probably give one a piece of wargear the elevates him above the rest. That model would be the Colonel, with any other models being Majors or Captains.

It may not be fluffy, but I can't really argue against a bunch of 100 point biker bosses otherwise.

It annoys me that Skitarii only have the Techpriest Dominus available as an HQ (Cawl, technically as well) when they used to not require any HQ. I guess I could take something from one of the other sections from a different army, but if I want pure Ad Mech, it is a single choice.

 Nazrak wrote:
Anyone else feeling a bit unsettled by the necessity of so many HQ units if you want to use a bunch of Troops and/or gain a decent amount of command points? The least restricted army for this seems to be Space Marines, and they only get 3 different guys before they start having to double up. It's even worse for armies like admech, who not only have just a single non-named-character choice, but only have one model that can represent it. Seems to me like we're going to see a lot of armies with multiples of the same model, which is kinda goofy both from a modelling and fluff perspective. What self-respecting Ork Warboss is going to share leadership of a Warband with another Warboss, instead of kicking his head in to prove who's REALLY in charge, before leading the boyz into battle?

I wonder if it might have been a better idea to have made a lot of the now-Elites models that were previously part of units move into some sort of sub-HQ role, which you can fill additional HQ slots with once you've already got your warlord?

You want multiple HQs. Most give an aura buff limited to 6" (highest i have seen is 9"). So bringing 2 of the same HQ just means buffing more guys. Try to look at your HQ to Troop relationship as Ethereals to Fire Warriors.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What I hope they do is add a couple of HQs to thr more needy factions. And spread the abilities out a bit some to incease toughness other to increase offences, and still other to increase movement. Could make for some intresting builds

The DKoK have 3 HQ choices to pick from. Which is perfectly ok with me.

IoM factions pretty much all have inqusitors. no matter what your army, an inqusitor is fluffy.

This idea also opens up the future to many more named characters (possibly bringing special command points/abilities to certain armies, etc.).

If you're concerned about models - get hackin/slashin. That or you'll see a bunch of Forge World options start to appear...because money.

Tau have gotten a HARD push towards Fire Warriors: the humble Shas'la is cheaper, and the cheap foot commanders are necessary to get command points, while suits have all nearly doubled in point cost.

And my Kroot, who I only managed to use once in 7e, have exchanged Stealth and Infiltrate for a rule called "Stealthy Infiltrators" which does neither of these things. Oh well, good thing I love my Kroot models

More HQ's more command points...

If you notice.. most of the Detachments give you 1 Command point per compulsory HQ

But 2 HQ choices isn't a lot really for the Battalion detachment and I can see most people just using that for 2k games

I have a excuse now to use all those Wargameexclusive models that I have bought for my Tau but that I just didn't used because Cadre Fireblade sucked in 7th

 Trickstick wrote:

 Formerly Wu wrote:
Which just leads to armies where multiple captains are running the show while their lieutenants are nowhere to be found. Or, for patrol detachments, captains leading a single squad of Guard around.

Platoon Commanders should absolutely have been HQs.

Well there is a wide range of ranks that can fill the two options. Platoon commanders can be Lieutenants or 2nd Lieutenants. For the Company Command, you could have Captains, Majors, Colonels or even Generals if you want. There is even the freedom to use any ranks from history or make up your own. You could have a Shield-Centurion leading your 100 man platoons. Glancing at the 5th Edition codex, they give some examples of different company commander titles: Major, Byzarr, Hetman, Spear-Chief, Prime-Warden or High Preator. The cultural variance across the Imperium is extreme, far greater than the amount of cultures currently found on Earth. Just because Cadian equipment is common in games, doesn't mean that the meat wielding it is the same at all.

I think that if I ever field multiple commanders, I will probably give one a piece of wargear the elevates him above the rest. That model would be the Colonel, with any other models being Majors or Captains.

100 Guard Conscripts..... no. Also that isn't even their complaint.

Well, the force org charts seem to be built backwards from a conclusion of upgrading Apothecaries, Ancients and Techmarines into solid ICs, with a Company being spread over three or four Force orgs and bringing along their Captiain and Chaplain and a bunch of Librarians and Techmarines. It's like taking a Company formation and a couple of the Power Rangers type ones.

I totally get why people with less diverse armies might be feeling hard done by Herohammer 40,000, though. Especially if their one HQ option, aside from mixing subfactions, offers little practical versatility.

Me? I'm maining Chaos and intend to fully exploit having loads of Lords giving re-rolls on supercharged Plasma Chosen & Havocs. Going to start Novamarines with my boxed game Primarines as well, who come with four characters. Might well dust off my Behemoth and Genesteela Kult as well. I have little to complain about, and hope that other factions get the variety in leaders they need to build interesting lists.

As a Chaos player currently being forced to run my Legion as 2 different Legions (the Death Guard forgot what Chosen, Havocs and Terminators were) I'm just fine and dandy with the extra HQ slots - that way I can apply bubble effects to things that need them.

Also, I always like having HQ slots spare for Fabius Bile. Though he lacks an invuln save...Fabius is bloody hilarious now. Cheap and cheerful and buffs Heretic Astartes Infantry units every turn - this includes Poxwalkers and cult troops

pigasuspig wrote:
Tau have gotten a HARD push towards Fire Warriors: the humble Shas'la is cheaper, and the cheap foot commanders are necessary to get command points, while suits have all nearly doubled in point cost.

And my Kroot, who I only managed to use once in 7e, have exchanged Stealth and Infiltrate for a rule called "Stealthy Infiltrators" which does neither of these things. Oh well, good thing I love my Kroot models

prefacing with the fact that I haven't had a chance to read the rulebook (or leaks yet), (though I did get access to the Tau Index) I was smitten with the idea that I could take Longstrike as a HQ. (Even if my stormsurges may ultimately be cheaper to field than riptides). And if I may just say. . . wtf happened to seeker and destroyer missiles?!? one shots that only hit on a six (regardless of buffs)?

I find it kinda of annoying since my 7e Talons of the Emperor army of Custodes and Sisters of Silence doesn't really work without taking HQs from outside those factions - cheap Inquisitors, Primaris Psykers or maybe something choppy on their own like a Gravis Captain or Celestine.

I might "count-as" my Tribune as a Space Marine Captain to meet the HQ tax, even if it doesn't synergize with the rest of the army.