Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

WOUND ALLOCATION
1. You can kill an entire unit with 1 attack if all your models see at least 1 of your opponent's models.
2. If there are parts of units outside of cover, you can allocate wounds to them first and then get cover saves after they die since the unit is fully in cover now
Both confirmed by Pete through twitter

MODIFIERS
1. With a +1 Plasma weapons never overheat.
2. With a +1 things that happen on a 6, happen on a 5 as well
3. With a -1 Plasma weapons overheat on a 1 or a 2
4. With a -1 Overwatch still happens
5. With a -1 and re-rolls, you can't re-roll a die if it would be a success without a modifier. Save: 3+ AP: -1. If you roll a 3, you can't re-roll it but it's a fail...
Confirmed by Frontline testers. in comments and video https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2017/06/09/signals-from-the-frontline-539-8th-ed-continued-discussion/#comments



Hope I didn't misundertand those

And some questions
1. How is range measured when moving up GW ruins? 3'' per floor? free?
2. How is range measured when deepstriking against units on GW ruins?
3. How is range measured when charging against units on GW ruins?

I think it's correct on the modifiers, even though it feels very weird for things like overheating.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
2. With a +1 things that happen on a 6, happen on a 5 as well

Things that happen on 6+ would happen on a 5 or 6.
If it's just on a 6 and not 6+, it would only be on a roll of 5.

fresus wrote:
I think it's correct on the modifiers, even though it feels very weird for things like overheating.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
2. With a +1 things that happen on a 6, happen on a 5 as well

Things that happen on 6+ would happen on a 5 or 6.
If it's just on a 6 and not 6+, it would only be on a roll of 5.

I assume you can't roll a 0 or a 7 with the rules..
So every 5 + 1 is 6 and 6 + 1 is still 6

wait, that point 5 is very weird. I don't think people will play taht way - it's just more bookkeeping!

There are so many rules now that let you reroll 1s along with modifiers it would seem very strange to have those rolls be 0s or -1s and, thus, can't be rerolled.

Edit: See, I already confused myself. So those 1s CAN be rerolled and then the modifiers are applied. I have to really nail into my head that rerolling 1s and rerolling misses are very different in terms of gameplay.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

fresus wrote:
I think it's correct on the modifiers, even though it feels very weird for things like overheating.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
2. With a +1 things that happen on a 6, happen on a 5 as well

Things that happen on 6+ would happen on a 5 or 6.
If it's just on a 6 and not 6+, it would only be on a roll of 5.

I assume you can't roll a 0 or a 7 with the rules..
So every 5 + 1 is 6 and 6 + 1 is still 6

6+1 is 7. This happens in Age of Sigmar also. If you have something that triggers on "hit rolls of 6 or more" and you have a +1 to hit, a natural roll of 5 or 6 will do the trick. If you have something that triggers on "hit rolls of 6" and you have a +1 to hit, only a natural roll of 5 will do the trick.

Remember, with modifiers, it's very possible to need a 7 or higher to hit an opponent AND to be able to do so if you have the right buffs in play.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

fresus wrote:
I think it's correct on the modifiers, even though it feels very weird for things like overheating.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
2. With a +1 things that happen on a 6, happen on a 5 as well

Things that happen on 6+ would happen on a 5 or 6.
If it's just on a 6 and not 6+, it would only be on a roll of 5.

I assume you can't roll a 0 or a 7 with the rules..
So every 5 + 1 is 6 and 6 + 1 is still 6

There are actual units with saves of "7+" (check the Dark Eldar index, for example). The rules must intend for it to be possible for the result of a roll to be modified beyond the values shown on a d6.

If these interpretations are correct, then, a unit with a 7+ Sv cannot benefit from a reroll, regardless of what cover or buffs are applied to it. You can't keep your 6s and reroll everything else.

 Oaka wrote:
If these interpretations are correct, then, a unit with a 7+ Sv cannot benefit from a reroll, regardless of what cover or buffs are applied to it. You can't keep your 6s and reroll everything else.

Yes you can... You can re-roll fails if you want to. A 6 is a fail but you don't want to re-roll it. Then the 6 becomes a 7 for a sucess for example


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vector Strike wrote:
wait, that point 5 is very weird. I don't think people will play taht way - it's just more bookkeeping!

But it is and has been confirmed as official(ish) by frontline


Basicly, we really need a FAQ for this gak

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

 Oaka wrote:
If these interpretations are correct, then, a unit with a 7+ Sv cannot benefit from a reroll, regardless of what cover or buffs are applied to it. You can't keep your 6s and reroll everything else.

Yes you can... You can re-roll fails if you want to. A 6 is a fail but you don't want to re-roll it. Then the 6 becomes a 7 for a sucess for example

I disagree on that point. You either choose to reroll failed rolls or you don't, it's not on a per die basis. When you have the ability to reroll a failed charge, you can't keep the high number and only reroll the lower one. But, if you roll a lower number of 6s than expected, you can choose to reroll all the dice hoping for a higher number, so I guess it does have its uses after all.

 Oaka wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

 Oaka wrote:
If these interpretations are correct, then, a unit with a 7+ Sv cannot benefit from a reroll, regardless of what cover or buffs are applied to it. You can't keep your 6s and reroll everything else.

Yes you can... You can re-roll fails if you want to. A 6 is a fail but you don't want to re-roll it. Then the 6 becomes a 7 for a sucess for example

I disagree on that point. You either choose to reroll failed rolls or you don't, it's not on a per die basis. When you have the ability to reroll a failed charge, you can't keep the high number and only reroll the lower one. But, if you roll a lower number of 6s than expected, you can choose to reroll all the dice hoping for a higher number, so I guess it does have its uses after all.

That's different. The charge is 1 roll as far as re-rolls go. It's a D12 pretty much (yes you can't roll a 1, and it averages out better etc). When doing pretty much anything else it's seperate dice and you can choose on a die to die basis.

I'll never ever agree on the Plasma overheating because of modifiers. So because the enemy is blurry your weapon will malfunction more easily ?

Nobody at my FLGS is going to apply this rule because of it's sillyness. We need a FAQ quickly, not in two months, it's really too confusing. For now we're playing it the way we played in 7th concerning things that fail on a 1.

 Aaranis wrote:
I'll never ever agree on the Plasma overheating because of modifiers. So because the enemy is blurry your weapon will malfunction more easily ?

Nobody at my FLGS is going to apply this rule because of it's sillyness. We need a FAQ quickly, not in two months, it's really too confusing. For now we're playing it the way we played in 7th concerning things that fail on a 1.

Me either...

 Aaranis wrote:
I'll never ever agree on the Plasma overheating because of modifiers. So because the enemy is blurry your weapon will malfunction more easily ?

Nobody at my FLGS is going to apply this rule because of it's sillyness. We need a FAQ quickly, not in two months, it's really too confusing. For now we're playing it the way we played in 7th concerning things that fail on a 1.

Makes total sense to me. If you're focused on hitting your enemy more than normal (due to having a negative modifier to hit), you're more likely not to be paying attention to your gun and do something stupid that causes it to blow up. Forge that narrative!

Also, don't overcharge when you have a penalty to hit.

 Kriswall wrote:
Makes total sense to me. If you're focused on hitting your enemy more than normal (due to having a negative modifier to hit), you're more likely not to be paying attention to your gun and do something stupid that causes it to blow up. Forge that narrative!

Also, don't overcharge when you have a penalty to hit.

Doesn't do any sense to me, I'm playing cyborgs with their head full of data and devoid of any emotion, they'll surely notice they're misusing their holy Plasma Caliver.

 Aaranis wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:
Makes total sense to me. If you're focused on hitting your enemy more than normal (due to having a negative modifier to hit), you're more likely not to be paying attention to your gun and do something stupid that causes it to blow up. Forge that narrative!

Also, don't overcharge when you have a penalty to hit.

Doesn't do any sense to me, I'm playing cyborgs with their head full of data and devoid of any emotion, they'll surely notice they're misusing their holy Plasma Caliver.

Sounds like the targeting protocols used a tad too much of what remains of their brains and the Rituals of Appeasement weren't properly performed before pulling the trigger. A Plasma Caliver's machine spirit can be pretty angry if you get even one bit wrong in the appeasement binaric cant.

Just saying: The Harlequin Shadowseer has a 7+ save in the profile

 Aaranis wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:
Makes total sense to me. If you're focused on hitting your enemy more than normal (due to having a negative modifier to hit), you're more likely not to be paying attention to your gun and do something stupid that causes it to blow up. Forge that narrative!

Also, don't overcharge when you have a penalty to hit.

Doesn't do any sense to me, I'm playing cyborgs with their head full of data and devoid of any emotion, they'll surely notice they're misusing their holy Plasma Caliver.

They have always failed on a 1 even without modifiers so what are you even writting...
Hell abaddon bloody hurts himself after how many years?

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

They have always failed on a 1 even without modifiers so what are you even writting...
Hell abaddon bloody hurts himself after how many years?

I'm not against the fact they blow up when you have bad luck in Overcharge, it's normal. I'm against the fact that because it's cloudy today your plasma gun is more likely to blow up, that's nonsense and I hate it.

 Aaranis wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

They have always failed on a 1 even without modifiers so what are you even writting...
Hell abaddon bloody hurts himself after how many years?

I'm not against the fact they blow up when you have bad luck in Overcharge, it's normal. I'm against the fact that because it's cloudy today your plasma gun is more likely to blow up, that's nonsense and I hate it.

I doubt anyone likes these rules and they'll probably get FAQd

But they still don't annoy me as much as all non-transport armies(admech) having a hidden "only go first on a 6" rulr

Where in the rulebook is it said that +to hit -modifiers are applied after the roll, and not before/simultaneously?

Regarding the plasma weapon overheat. It would work, if it happens like this:

Unit has +1 to hit from a spell for example. They roll 1's. Modifier +1 is applied, the roll becomes a 2.

However, where does it say modifiers are applied after the roll, and not before?

Basically if you have Night Fighting the darkness of night makes plasmaguns overheat more, according to this.

 Runic wrote:

Basically if you have Night Fighting the darkness of night makes plasmaguns overheat more, according to this.

THIS. Precisely why I think this rule is miswritten or just plain bad developped. These modifiers are really confusing if you think too much about it.

In my opinion stuff that trigger on a 1 or a 6 should always be made with the natural roll, it's supposed to represent the "luck" factor.

With a -1 to hit, you don't overheat more, because while you overheat on a 2 (which becomes a 1), you no longer overheat on a 1 (since it's a 0 after the modifier).

Frontline says you do overheat... maybe 7+ exists and 0 doesn't? Also you can automiss with BS 6+ and -1 to hit

The FAQ guys have their work cut out for them lol

I'll eat my rulebook if those are the actual rules post-FAQ. There's no way that's how it works. That's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard, but given the source, i shouldn't be surprised.

 Oaka wrote:
I disagree on that point. You either choose to reroll failed rolls or you don't, it's not on a per die basis. When you have the ability to reroll a failed charge, you can't keep the high number and only reroll the lower one. But, if you roll a lower number of 6s than expected, you can choose to reroll all the dice hoping for a higher number, so I guess it does have its uses after all.

You can reroll each roll. 2d6 is one roll so rerolling one dice isn't possible. 10 armour saves are however 10 different rolls. Rolling them all together is just speed play. Functionaly they can be thought to be rolled one at a time.

If the rule book says on a roll of a 1, if a 1 is rolled or anything similar a roll of a 2 with a -1 modifier is still a roll of 2 even if the result is 1. Thus the bad thing wouldn't happen. Similarly if you you hit on a 3 a three shows you hit the target area. Therefore it's not a miss even if after the modifier for whatever it is deemed to have not had an effect. With a powerfist this might mean the target just managed to dodge, with shooting maybe the bullet didn't break through the cover etc.

If the book says on a result of 1 we are screwed lol

RichJ wrote:
If the rule book says on a roll of a 1, if a 1 is rolled or anything similar a roll of a 2 with a -1 modifier is still a roll of 2 even if the result is 1. Thus the bad thing wouldn't happen. Similarly if you you hit on a 3 a three shows you hit the target area. Therefore it's not a miss even if after the modifier for whatever it is deemed to have not had an effect. With a powerfist this might mean the target just managed to dodge, with shooting maybe the bullet didn't break through the cover etc.

If the book says on a result of 1 we are screwed lol

This is close to it I think. If a rule says "on a roll of X" then you look at what the die says prior to modifiers. If it says "on a X+/-" then you look at what it is after modifiers.

So if Plasma says "on a roll of 1" then 2 with a -1 modifier would not overheat. If Plasma says "on a 1" then a 2 with a -1 modifier WOULD overheat, but a 1 would not because it would become 0. If it says "on a 1 or less" then both a 2 and a 1 overheat.

Frontline may play differently, but they aren't GW and they don't make rules.

I had mentioned that in the primaris rhino and plasma thread.

Every rule has the "on a roll of x" or a specified "roll of x".

High rolls are all listed as 6+.

Low rolls are all listed as simply 1.

The auto-fail on a roll of 1 rules(hit, wound, save) all state that the roll of 1 fails irrespective of modifiers. All weapon and unit abilities completely lack that clarification.

So supercharge overheat as an end result will always be a 1-in-6 to damage your model no matter how many negative modifiers to hit you add. Possitive modifiers will negate overheat altogether in this model.

If supercharge is clarified as an irrespective of modifiers then only a natural 1 will over heat, but then the natural 1 that would have hit were it not for the to-hit rules would also overheat even though you have positive modifiers(most likely this is hiwpi)

If the FAQ comes out and says that rolls may go over 6, but never below 1 after modifiers: supercharging under negative modifiers becomes suicide, but positive modifiers remove the possibility of overheat(this is the most expected end)

Guess the +1 means Tesla is in vogue again. A unit of Immortals now averages 1.5 hits per model with a potential for 6. That's funny.