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So, I've gotten a couple games of 8th ed in and its cool but its so bland. I cannot wait until actual codexes come out. Until then, I was brainstorming cool ideas for chapter/ legion tactics and my first instinct is to port 30k legion tactics over as a starting point. I was wondering what others thought about this from a balance perspective. There are none that come right out to me as not being compatible except for Emperor's Children. Other than that, Sons of Horus come out to me as not being super fluffy but I don't see anything being particularly disastrous. Thoughts?

Dark angels
Intractable: +1 to hit when using rapid fire weapons if remained stationary, Dw and rw do not get this rule.
Deathwing: immune to morale, +1 to hit chaos models in cc
Ravening: +1 to as if moving at full speed.

I'd just use similar rules to 7th to be honest, they'd transfer over fairly easily. Only Ultras would need rules changes.

IF - Re roll 1s to Hit with Boltguns, Pistols, Rifles, and Heavy Bolters.

IH - Basically the Warlord trait for the 6+ save on all units

Sala - Reroll To Wound rolls using Flamers and Heavy Flamers (maybe Flamestorm Cannons)

RG - On the first turn, all units count as being in cover or Units with the Fly keyword can reroll charge distance.

WS - Bike units get the Ravenwing Jink rule.

Formosa wrote:Dark angels
Intractable: +1 to hit when using rapid fire weapons if remained stationary, Dw and rw do not get this rule.
Deathwing: immune to morale, +1 to hit chaos models in cc
Ravening: +1 to as if moving at full speed.

that's good. I'll take it.

WarbossDakka wrote:I'd just use similar rules to 7th to be honest, they'd transfer over fairly easily. Only Ultras would need rules changes.

IF - Re roll 1s to Hit with Boltguns, Pistols, Rifles, and Heavy Bolters.

IH - Basically the Warlord trait for the 6+ save on all units

Sala - Reroll To Wound rolls using Flamers and Heavy Flamers (maybe Flamestorm Cannons)

RG - On the first turn, all units count as being in cover or Units with the Fly keyword can reroll charge distance.

WS - Bike units get the Ravenwing Jink rule.

I guess all of these work, but IFs in particular feel problematic because bonuses from HQs in 8th ed are rerolls. I like their Legion tactics rules because you can stack it with other bonuses.

I started a thread on this a couple days ago...

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/727876.page

Here's what I came up with...

1 Dark Angels- May advance D6” immediately after an enemy unit with 1” falls back
2 NA
3 Emperor's Children- +1 to hit and wound for characters
4 Iron Warriors- +1 dmg vs vehicles and buildings when shooting
5 White Scars- +2 to advance and fallback moves
6 Space Wolves- All Space wolves can be outflanking and deploy within 3” of table edge and more than 9” away from enemies at end of the movement phase, counts as movement.
7 Imperial Fists- +1 to hit for overwatch
8 Night Lords- Characters cause -1 leadership to units within 3” (not cumulative)
9 Blood Angels- +1 to charge distance and +1 strength if this unit charged this turn
10 Iron Hands- +1 to save vs ap0 attacks
11 NA
12 World Eaters- Units within 1” of an enemy don’t take morale tests
13 Ultramarines- On a 4+ may act as normal after falling back
14 Death Guard- Infantry get +1 T
15 Thousand Sons- +1 to casting roles
16 Black Legion- Add 1 to hit when within 6” of target
17 Words Bearers- +1 to daemonic rituals result. +1 leadership
18 Salamanders- +1 to armour save vs weapons with “flame” in the name. +1 to the number of hits with weapons with “flame” in the name
19 Raven Guard- Additional +1 to armour save in cover. -1 to hit in shooting phase against Raven Guard infantry on opponents first turn
20 Alpha Legion- Warlord and D3 infantry units already deployed can redeploy more than 9” away from enemies at the end of their first movement phase, counts as movement

Their all relatively small buffs but i think most of them are appropriate.

Let me know what you think

Taffy17 wrote:
I started a thread on this a couple days ago...

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/727876.page

Here's what I came up with...

1 Dark Angels- May advance D6” immediately after an enemy unit with 1” falls back
2 NA
3 Emperor's Children- +1 to hit and wound for characters
4 Iron Warriors- +1 dmg vs vehicles and buildings when shooting
5 White Scars- +2 to advance and fallback moves
6 Space Wolves- All Space wolves can be outflanking and deploy within 3” of table edge and more than 9” away from enemies at end of the movement phase, counts as movement.
7 Imperial Fists- +1 to hit for overwatch
8 Night Lords- Characters cause -1 leadership to units within 3” (not cumulative)
9 Blood Angels- +1 to charge distance and +1 strength if this unit charged this turn
10 Iron Hands- +1 to save vs ap0 attacks
11 NA
12 World Eaters- Units within 1” of an enemy don’t take morale tests
13 Ultramarines- On a 4+ may act as normal after falling back
14 Death Guard- Infantry get +1 T
15 Thousand Sons- +1 to casting roles
16 Black Legion- Add 1 to hit when within 6” of target
17 Words Bearers- +1 to daemonic rituals result. +1 leadership
18 Salamanders- +1 to armour save vs weapons with “flame” in the name. +1 to the number of hits with weapons with “flame” in the name
19 Raven Guard- Additional +1 to armour save in cover. -1 to hit in shooting phase against Raven Guard infantry on opponents first turn
20 Alpha Legion- Warlord and D3 infantry units already deployed can redeploy more than 9” away from enemies at the end of their first movement phase, counts as movement

Their all relatively small buffs but i think most of them are appropriate.

Let me know what you think

Death Guard seem like they get to much when compared to the others.

 mew28 wrote:
Death Guard seem like they get to much when compared to the others.

Maybe... i should have specifically said only infantry. it would mean S4 would wound them on 5s, while you'd need to be S10 instead of S8 to wound them on 2's.

We could have infantry regain a lost wound at the start of each friendly movement phase instead?

Oh yeah. I've got so much of the Corsairs worked out via extrapolating from Craftworld/DE content (Reckless Abandon: Corsair Infantry may move 3" in any direction if they're not within 1" of an enemy unit in the Consolidate phase; Dancing on the Blade's Edge: If a Corsair unit fails a Morale test one additional model flees) that I'm mostly waiting for Forge World's xeno-Index so I can see if they did it the way I did it.

I don't think that we are going to get chapter or legion chapter tactics per se. If you look at the war scrolls, they don't have the "chapter tactics" special rule. I suppose they could do something based on key words, but I doubt it.

I think what we are going to get are chapter/legion based stratagems.

Something I could see coming out in the new codices:

Bolter Drill
1 Command Point
Select a unit with the Imperial Fists key word. All models in that unit add +1 to their To Hit rolls when making attacks in the shooting phase with any weapon with the word "bolt" in the name or fluff description.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's another fun idea:

Inspiring Presence
2 Command Points
Select a character with the Crimson Fists key word. The range of its AoE effects are doubled until the end of the phase.

 Traditio wrote:
I don't think that we are going to get chapter or legion chapter tactics per se. If you look at the war scrolls, they don't have the "chapter tactics" special rule. I suppose they could do something based on key words, but I doubt it.

I think what we are going to get are chapter/legion based stratagems.

Something I could see coming out in the new codices:

Bolter Drill
1 Command Point
Select a unit with the Imperial Fists key word. All models in that unit add +1 to their To Hit rolls when making attacks in the shooting phase with any weapon with the word "bolt" in the name or fluff description.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's another fun idea:

Inspiring Presence
2 Command Points
Select a character with the Crimson Fists key word. The range of its AoE effects are doubled until the end of the phase.

I think this is also likely, "take these force org slots, only take these key words and get these benefits" so take a hq, 2 troops and a fast attack minimum, everyone must have blood angels and jump infantry keywords, get re-roll to charges"

Taffy17 wrote:

 Traditio wrote:
I don't think that we are going to get chapter or legion chapter tactics per se. If you look at the war scrolls, they don't have the "chapter tactics" special rule. I suppose they could do something based on key words, but I doubt it.

I think what we are going to get are chapter/legion based stratagems.

Something I could see coming out in the new codices:

Bolter Drill
1 Command Point
Select a unit with the Imperial Fists key word. All models in that unit add +1 to their To Hit rolls when making attacks in the shooting phase with any weapon with the word "bolt" in the name or fluff description.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's another fun idea:

Inspiring Presence
2 Command Points
Select a character with the Crimson Fists key word. The range of its AoE effects are doubled until the end of the phase.

I think this is also likely, "take these force org slots, only take these key words and get these benefits" so take a hq, 2 troops and a fast attack minimum, everyone must have blood angels and jump infantry keywords, get re-roll to charges"

I've seen other people predict this too and I don't think its unlikely but I also really hope we get passive chapter tactics rules alongside these. There's no reason in my mind for each chapter/legion to get one stratagem and one passive buff. I don't think this is likely but the ideal for me would be for each chapter/legion tactic to be formatted such that each legion gets a unique stratagem, a unique passive buff and one drawback.

Like for Imperial/ Crimson Fists:

Bolter Drill: Models firing Boltguns, Bolt Pistols, Storm Bolters and Heavy Bolters get +1 to hit.

Hold the Line: spend 2 Command Points: score one VP for each <IMPERIAL FIST> unit controlling an objective that didn't move in the last movement phase.

The Bitter End: At the end of turn 5, your opponent may choose to force an additional game turn.

The problem with chapter tactics is that basically they are free rules.

If they are passive buffs then expect point increases to pay for those rules.

Taffy17 wrote:
I started a thread on this a couple days ago...

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/727876.page

Here's what I came up with...

1 Dark Angels- May advance D6” immediately after an enemy unit with 1” falls back
2 NA
3 Emperor's Children- +1 to hit and wound for characters
4 Iron Warriors- +1 dmg vs vehicles and buildings when shooting
5 White Scars- +2 to advance and fallback moves
6 Space Wolves- All Space wolves can be outflanking and deploy within 3” of table edge and more than 9” away from enemies at end of the movement phase, counts as movement.
7 Imperial Fists- +1 to hit for overwatch
8 Night Lords- Characters cause -1 leadership to units within 3” (not cumulative)
9 Blood Angels- +1 to charge distance and +1 strength if this unit charged this turn
10 Iron Hands- +1 to save vs ap0 attacks
11 NA
12 World Eaters- Units within 1” of an enemy don’t take morale tests
13 Ultramarines- On a 4+ may act as normal after falling back
14 Death Guard- Infantry get +1 T
15 Thousand Sons- +1 to casting roles
16 Black Legion- Add 1 to hit when within 6” of target
17 Words Bearers- +1 to daemonic rituals result. +1 leadership
18 Salamanders- +1 to armour save vs weapons with “flame” in the name. +1 to the number of hits with weapons with “flame” in the name
19 Raven Guard- Additional +1 to armour save in cover. -1 to hit in shooting phase against Raven Guard infantry on opponents first turn
20 Alpha Legion- Warlord and D3 infantry units already deployed can redeploy more than 9” away from enemies at the end of their first movement phase, counts as movement

Their all relatively small buffs but i think most of them are appropriate.

Let me know what you think

The Emperor's children buff is really weak, everything except a warpsmith already hits on a 2+, though the +1 to wound does make talon princes even more insane.

Tyran wrote:
The problem with chapter tactics is that basically they are free rules.

If they are passive buffs then expect point increases to pay for those rules.

but the sixth ed SM codex was a middle tier codex except for dev centurions and bikes, which didn't have as much to do with Chapter Tactics as it did with the units themselves, so giving "free" rules to the entire army must not be so terrible. To me, its more about flavor and it makes sense because other armies get super specific rules to units that make them feel special and mechanically cohesive. The trick is to balance them against each other so you can just say that whatever the rules are worth is baked into the cost of the models themselves which is fine by me. I think SM have needed to go back up to 15 ppm for all of 6th ed anyways so I would totally pay 15-16 ppm for tacticals/ asm and like 25 ppm for vets to get cool chapter tactics.

also, its possible to make chapter tactics more swingy if you include downsides a la legion tactics. This allows for an extra nob to turn so you can make more powerful buffs balanced by making drawbacks hurt more.

Iron hands: 6+ to ignore wound in shooting phase
Salamanders: either 2d6 pick the highest result with Flamers or +1 str with Flamers.
White scars: +1 to move for all infantry, bikes and jump packs
Ultramarine: +1 command point
Raven guard: -1 to hit if already in cover for a total of -2
Space wolves: don't need anything, special units are already enough
Blood angels: assault as troops, +1 str on the charge
Dark angels: as above.

Word bearers: may take lesser Deamons as troops
Night lords: -1 to enemy morale tests in combat
Death guard: nothing, they are about to get the Gucci
World eaters: rr missed hits in combat (first round)
Emperors children: 6+ ignore wound in cc
Alpha legion: may deep strike up to d3 infantry units

Just off the top of my head

Tyran wrote:
The problem with chapter tactics is that basically they are free rules.

If they are passive buffs then expect point increases to pay for those rules.

I think all armies have these free rules, and at the moment I feel SM's unique rules are the worst. Reroll Morale tests on units with hardly any models? Hardly as good as the Orks being basically Fearless for example. They probably make up for it in wargear/units, but I'd still say that's a bit of a stretch (looking at you Tau battlesuits ).

I like the idea of general Chapter Tactics for each main Chapter, but then getting a bonus command Strategum for filling out a fluffy Force Org. Say for White Scars, 1 HQ 2 Fast Attack and for 1 CP a unit with the Biker keyword can Advance and Shoot, for example. The only problem with this would be it is going into Decurion territory, and we all know where that landed us last time.