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Hello Everyone,

As part of my investigations into my alternative paint range, how much do you guys thin your paints by?

i.e how much water/thinner do you add to your paint to get the best consistency for brush and/or airbrushing?

Do you thin bases, layers and dry or is it just certain types?

KR

Why are you using water?

Start a new investigation into using lahmian medium I thin it 3/1 3 being the lahmian check out my orkum millitarum thread for the results, there is a fine example of before and after lahmian medium I truly believe it was gods gift to painters.

MegaKnob

I'm not using water personally, however being a water based paint and water being a good solvent, it seems like a fairly obvious choice for a thinner, though I do accept being wrong in the choice of thinner

However, since this is just an investigation, I think more of the point is, how much liquid would you guys normally add to thin your paint.

Doesn't matter on the brand, make, type etc. Just the amount of liquid.

 Supershandy wrote:
MegaKnob

Doesn't matter on the brand, make, type etc. Just the amount of liquid.

It kind of does though. Scale 75 paints are seriously thick and require a lot more thinning than Vallejo Model Air, which are often good to go from the bottle, for example. Even within lines paints can vary, Vallejo Model Colour reds tend to start thinner than many other colours Add as much liquid as each individual paint requires to get it to the consistency of milk.

 Megaknob wrote:
Why are you using water?

Start a new investigation into using lahmian medium I thin it 3/1 3 being the lahmian check out my orkum millitarum thread for the results, there is a fine example of before and after lahmian medium I truly believe it was gods gift to painters.

He's using wate because there's nothing wrong with it, if someone can't get good results with water then I'm afraid that's a user error. Besides which, Lahmian medium is no panacea; equivalent or better products from other companies existed before it and haven't gone anywhere, many of which will be cheaper.

There is no right or wrong answer. You add how much you see fit. It depends what you are trying to achieve.
You have to build up your experience of what you can do with the paint with practice.

The only general answer I can give you is. For basecoats, add until it flows smooth and self level. For glazes for blending your layers. Everything from smooth to watery.

As for what the general public actually does. Everything from 0% to 99%. Some people even paint from the pot. And most people don't even blend their colors.
Most just add until it doesn't feel lumpy is my guess. How much that is does depend on the brand make and type.
Sorry but impossible to give you a straight forward answer.

 sockwithaticket wrote:

 Supershandy wrote:
MegaKnob

Doesn't matter on the brand, make, type etc. Just the amount of liquid.

It kind of does though. Scale 75 paints are seriously thick and require a lot more thinning than Vallejo Model Air, which are often good to go from the bottle, for example. Even within lines paints can vary, Vallejo Model Colour reds tend to start thinner than many other colours Add as much liquid as each individual paint requires to get it to the consistency of milk.

 Megaknob wrote:
Why are you using water?

Start a new investigation into using lahmian medium I thin it 3/1 3 being the lahmian check out my orkum millitarum thread for the results, there is a fine example of before and after lahmian medium I truly believe it was gods gift to painters.

He's using wate because there's nothing wrong with it, if someone can't get good results with water then I'm afraid that's a user error. Besides which, Lahmian medium is no panacea; equivalent or better products from other companies existed before it and haven't gone anywhere, many of which will be cheaper.

Wow straight for the face, my painting was not bad with water and I could achieve decent results but switching to lahmian helped me break my plateau and I have tried a few mediums now and none come close to citidels.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DanceOfSlaanesh wrote:
There is no right or wrong answer. You add how much you see fit. It depends what you are trying to achieve.
You have to build up your experience of what you can do with the paint with practice.

The only general answer I can give you is. For basecoats, add until it flows smooth and self level. For glazes for blending your layers. Everything from smooth to watery.

As for what the general public actually does. Everything from 0% to 99%. Some people even paint from the pot. And most people don't even blend their colors.
Most just add until it doesn't feel lumpy is my guess. How much that is does depend on the brand make and type.
Sorry but impossible to give you a straight forward answer.

3/1 Is what I would use generally sometimes I will use thicker or thinner paint depending on the colour and situation.

 Megaknob wrote:

 sockwithaticket wrote:

 Supershandy wrote:
MegaKnob

Doesn't matter on the brand, make, type etc. Just the amount of liquid.

It kind of does though. Scale 75 paints are seriously thick and require a lot more thinning than Vallejo Model Air, which are often good to go from the bottle, for example. Even within lines paints can vary, Vallejo Model Colour reds tend to start thinner than many other colours Add as much liquid as each individual paint requires to get it to the consistency of milk.

 Megaknob wrote:
Why are you using water?

Start a new investigation into using lahmian medium I thin it 3/1 3 being the lahmian check out my orkum millitarum thread for the results, there is a fine example of before and after lahmian medium I truly believe it was gods gift to painters.

He's using wate because there's nothing wrong with it, if someone can't get good results with water then I'm afraid that's a user error. Besides which, Lahmian medium is no panacea; equivalent or better products from other companies existed before it and haven't gone anywhere, many of which will be cheaper.

Wow straight for the face, my painting was not bad with water and I could achieve decent results but switching to lahmian helped me break my plateau and I have tried a few mediums now and none come close to citidels.

I said: If someone can't get good results with just water then that's a user error. Nowhere does that say your painting is bad, it's deliberately non-specific and 'good results' is contingent on many factors, not the least of which is what someone's actually trying to achieve. While it's a direct reply, it's a general point.

I'm pleased if you found Lahmian medium helped you out, but it was important to note that that alone won't necessarily sort the issue noted by the OP.

Wow, lots of divided opinions! This is great!

However, this is really to get some ideas on my own paint line to see if starting thinner is better than starting thicker. I have no experience of thinning paints, however it seems to be quite the norm so I'm looking into this part of the developement as well.

sockwithaticket

Consistency of milk? That's quite thin! I would imagine quite a lot of layers would be needed to get a good coat on a plastic model, is there a particular reason why this consistency is better?

DanceOfSlannesh

When you mention flow smoothly, I understand this is to do with surface tension, but is this to the point where the paint is slightly transparent/slightly streaky on drying requiring another coat on top? Or smooth to the point where it is opaque on drying?

And straightforward answers are quite boring tbh, I like challenges

Megaknob

Thanks for the ratio mix, might be a good starting point.

I already have solids counts calculated for Citadel paint and my own paint range, would be interesting to see what your ratio mix calculates to

By the way to everyone viewing this thread, this is quite a concise investigation and being a lab rat this is going to get quite nerdy!

Also, if anyone is interested, you can follow the developments of my paint line here - Alternative Paint Range equal to Citadel Colours

You can measure the solid count yourself? As in count the pigments per mil of paint?

 Supershandy wrote:


sockwithaticket

Consistency of milk? That's quite thin! I would imagine quite a lot of layers would be needed to get a good coat on a plastic model, is there a particular reason why this consistency is better?

Alternative Paint Range equal to Citadel Colours

You can probably go a bit thicker if you like, it's just somethin I saw mentioned a lot by very good painters when I was starting. Took it to heart and it seems to have gone alright so far! Basically the more thin layers you apply, the smoother the finish, it also allows you to semi-blend as you go. It is situational, though, you'll want to go thicker for basecoats, this is more for the stages after that and if you're intending on doing a lot of layering.

MegaKnob

I can't calculate the amount of each individual pigment, that would take way too long, but I have got a method of matching the shades to within 95% of an original colour!

The solids count just tells me how much water there is in the paint.

By the way, you 3/1 ratio makes it quite thin, will have to test it on a plastic model to see how it does with my paint range.

sockwithaticket

Good info to know and makes a lot of sense, bit like 3d printing, thinner layer = more work, but smoother print

Well I thin my paints down to a ridiculously watery mix but I realize most people don't like that.

And there is no magic formula because every pot is different, like even literally the same paint Mephiston Red is different from one pot to the next hah.

But Vallejo Model Colour or GW Base or P3 paints I tend to generally thin a LOT (with water typically) because they are so thick.

Vallejo Game Colour or GW Layer I still thin but not as much.

I like lahmian medium for a small quick area, but if I'm making a big mix for like several models it's water all the way...

I think it depends on what you are doing.

I find that GW paints separate quite quickly when mixed with water. I don't find this is a problem when doing my base layers which all you are after is an even flat coverage. For edge highlighting it also doesn't really seem to matter.

However when it comes to other highlighting such as feathering then such separation seems to mean less even transitions and more obvious steps. Lahmian medium does seem to offset but I've always found other paints like Scale76, P3 etc to provide more consistent natural gradients (especially when combined with a medium as well).

However given the way GW demonstrates how to paint models I think this might have been what they were going for.

95% of the time I just thin with water. When thinning to absurd levels of thinness I use a medium and/or flow improver to stop the paint breaking down and reduce the surface tension. Water has a very high surface tension so if you thin too much with water the paint won't flow brilliantly.

When doing fine detail work I use a flow improver and maybe just a slight touch of a drying retarder to stop paint drying on the brush too quick. But that's only when doing really fine detail work.

Sometimes when doing the main colours on details I don't thin at all (!!) because it just unnecessarily means I have to use more coats of paint to get good coverage.

Out of the pot I ussssually prefer my paints on the thicker side, simply because I can thin them myself and you can always thin a paint down if you need it thin but it's hard to thicken up if you need it thick.

But it does depend on the specific colour I guess, some colours I prefer thinner out of the pot and some I prefer thicker.

Great discussion going on here and a bit of an eye opener into the painting world.

Seems everyone is different and has a personal favourite paint and thinner wise.

However given the way GW demonstrates how to paint models I think this might have been what they were going for.

Given that my colours are almost exactly the same shades as GW paint but just on the thinner side, layering might be more effective straight out of the pot (or in my case dropper bottles).

I'll have to see how the results are when I get feedback from the testers of my paint set, so far from painting my own models it seems to be working well.

I do have a way of thickening them up but it's still trial and error as to how thick is thick enough if it's required that the paint goes the other way.

Hence the first post asking about how much volume of thinner put in, seems that most of the time it's about 30/70% paint to water.

My paint range starts off around 70/30% paint/water and GW start off around 90/10% paint to water

I use Liquitex flow improver or water. I used to only use water but recently transfered all my GW paints to dropper bottles I used the Liquitex flow improver mixed with a bit of water Probably a 1:1 mix water:flow improver to get it into the bottles.
When thinning straight GW paints I think I go about 1:2 or 1:3 flow improver to paint plus a touch of water....don't find it very exact just kinda the way it flows and feels.

Hi guys,

I just want to say that in the warhammer TV channel How to paint series (youtube) , Duncan goes into this topic in many of the videos, just pick one and watch him go. He addresses how much water he's thinning his paint by and shows him doing it, and secondly explains why there are advantages to doing two thinner layers to one thicker layer (though how many models you are painting and how much free time you have will dictate your quality:time ratio and if that makes sense to you or not)