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There's some disagreement about whether a unit that has just arrived via deepstrike can be moved or advanced in the psychic phase through the successful use of Warptime.

The rules for deepstriking state, "Units that are set up in this manner cannot move or advance further during the turn they arrive - their entire movement phase is used in deploying to the battlefield- but they can otherwise normally act (shoot, charge, etc)." I assert that the portion of that quote that I bolded is there to explain WHY such a unit normally cannot move or advance further during the turn they arrive (i.e., they've used up their whole movement phase to arrive by deepstriking, and normally that's the only phase when a unit can move or advance); otherwise, there's no reason for it to be there. What follows from that is the following argument:

1) A unit normally only gets one movement phase a turn in which it can move or advance.
2) A unit that deepstrikes uses its entire movement phase in order to finish that deepstrike, so normally it cannot move or advance that turn.
3) Such a unit CAN engage in types of movement that occur outside of the movement phase (such as charging).
4) Warptime allows a unit to move or advance outside of the movement phase, during the psychic phase.
5) Accordingly, a unit that deepstrikes and gets buffed with Warptime cannot move or advance during its actual movement phase per the deepstrike rules, but it CAN move or advance during the psychic phase.

What do y'all think?

You can't charge then, because a charge is a move, yet they point out you can still charge. Thus, you can Warp Time them because you're not doing it during your Movement Phase. In effect it should be saying that you cannot move further that phase, which makes sense with the next sentence that their entire Movement Phase is used up.

Edit; just realized you agreed. Yeah, you can totally do it and I'm surprised someone is fighting you on it.

I think the only slightly questionable thing is if Warp Time allows you to Advance.

Its the same as Swarmlord (who does it in the shooting)

totally legit

Move advance and charge are all specific described in the rules as different things

Units that are set up this way cannot move or advance further during the turn they arrive is explicit under the RAW

The line after the bit you embolden gives you explicit permission to shoot and charge etc later in the turn. RAW

The emboldened bit is descriptive and doesn't really serve any rules purpose other than justifying why thsee rules are in effect


In conclusion the rules are worded in such a way as to prevent wartime working that is the RAW. (Units that are set up this way cannot move or advance further during the turn is clear as crystal)

I agree with U02dah4, he outlines everything clearly. A move is not an advance or charge, all three are different. So no warptime and hive commander on units that arrived from reserves.

U02dah4 wrote:
Move advance and charge are all specific described in the rules as different things

Units that are set up this way cannot move or advance further during the turn they arrive is explicit under the RAW

The line after the bit you embolden gives you explicit permission to shoot and charge etc later in the turn. RAW

The emboldened bit is descriptive and doesn't really serve any rules purpose other than justifying why thsee rules are in effect


In conclusion the rules are worded in such a way as to prevent wartime working that is the RAW. (Units that are set up this way cannot move or advance further during the turn is clear as crystal)

I completely disagree. Warptime and Hive Commander both give you specific permission to move. Specific > General. You are told that reinforcement units may not move or advance any further that turn. Then, a very specific rule gives you permission to move. The specific rule overrides the general rule of reinforcements.

I think I am on the side of no move but....

When they did the online clarification.....the designers said any move....Movement, Pile In, and Consolidate all count as movement.

To carry that line of thought, Charge or any other 'movement' is movement.

If they allow charge.....do they allow Pile In???? If they do and movement is movement then reverse logic would go that if there are exceptions for one then others are valid

Yeah generally Codex(index) > basic rules

But yeah the cant move after DS rules itself is full of contradictions.. i.e. they can Charge

That is why a glossary of terms like Wounds and damage and movement would help.

Movement phase should be RE-Deploy phase.... you want to redeploy your unit into cover or redeploy forward and the term movement could be used generally for Charge, Advance(run) Pile In /consolidate...and then they could cover specific phases if needed or make a universal statement on all movement

Another question about Warptime: Do units who did not move in the movement phase, but did move via Warptime take -1 to hit when shooting heavy weapons? The Heavy Weapon rule says they take the -1 if they moved "in their previous Movement phase", and the Warptime move is during the Psychic phase, so it seems to me that RAW, they do NOT take -1 to-hit.

GodDamUser wrote:
Yeah generally Codex(index) > basic rules

But yeah the cant move after DS rules itself is full of contradictions.. i.e. they can Charge

As other people have said multiple times. Reinforcement rules explicitly state that charging is an exception to this rule.

It does not, however, give you permission to move as a result of a psychic power.

DaPino wrote:

GodDamUser wrote:
Yeah generally Codex(index) > basic rules

But yeah the cant move after DS rules itself is full of contradictions.. i.e. they can Charge

As other people have said multiple times. Reinforcement rules explicitly state that charging is an exception to this rule.

It does not, however, give you permission to move as a result of a psychic power.

That's not what it says, though. It says "their entire Movement phase is used in deploying to the battlefield - but they can otherwise act normally (shoot, charge, etc.) for the rest of their turn.

Acting normally means you follow the rule for the psychic power that tells you to move

Their movement phase is used up. Nothing more.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Acting normally means you follow the rule for the psychic power that tells you to move

Their movement phase is used up. Nothing more.

This. Listen to nos, for he is wise.

It's as simple as if something had already moved in the movement phase that was already on the board. If you were to warp time this unit, it could again move. Thus warp time would work on the unit that deep struck or a unit on the board. Deep strike makes sure in it's rules to say that they cannot move after deep striking so people don't set them up 9"s away and them move their normal movement closer. A psychic ability, act of faith, soul burst, etc would all allow this unit to move, shoot, etc during the psychic phase or phase these are used normally.

Do not forget the initial part of that statement from the BRB though. "Units that are set up in this manner cannot move or advance further during the turn they arrive". Why would they include this statement if they could move due to Warptime? Why not just say "They arrive when the movement phase is over and cannot move during that movement phase"? The reinforcements rule specifically calls out "the turn", which includes the psychic phase. I don't think Warptime works with deep-striking.

Jackal444 Don't know if you recall that Librarius Conclave (7ed formation) had this kind of statement and some people did try to cast spells in the end of phase
Anyway - models don't have permission to move outside the movement phase, and Reserves rule restriction have reason why they cannot move further during that turn - "becasue their Movement phase is used". You cannot read first part of sentence withiout that statement.
That's why when another Movement phase in Psychic phase happens the may act normally.

As i said in a another thread a key distinction in the wording is it says ITS movement phase not THE movement phase.

The unit you are casting on in this turn used all of its movement phase to deepstrike

If it lets you move as if it were your movement phase then in the preceding movement phase you could not move.

I'm not convinced that it's allowed.

"Cannot" rules are usually higher priority and need specific wording to negate. Just for example from 7e, "can assault after disembarking" did not allow you to ignore that you just arrived from reserves in a vehicle, because it wasn't specifically called out.

The fact that they call out the entire turn and then specifically allow charges is very strongly suggesting to me that they want possible charges out of deep strike, but don't want shenanigans making them sure-things, along with probably not wanting 8" flamers and melta range stuff to be in range on arrival.

So yeah I'd rule it a no go on both a raw reading and rai from my perspective.

 puma713 wrote:
Specific > General

So...
Is this mentioned anywhere in the 8e Codex?

I'm not trying to be flippant, I'm serious.

In 7e it straight up said "Where advanced rules apply to a specific model, they always override any contradicting basic rules."

I'm sure every edition have said that in some form. Now I didn't bother to buy the basic rule book because I'm a cheap b *cough*
but when I read it at the gaming store, I didn't see this mentioned.

Now you might think, "It's common sense". Tho a part of that will be due to every edition having that rule. There does exist games in which basic rules always apply.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Acting normally means you follow the rule for the psychic power that tells you to move

Their movement phase is used up. Nothing more.

I agree with this statement.

Not to mention nearly every single live game has allowed it when it has happened from GW streams to all of the others. I'm in agreement that it allows a movement outside of the normal movement phase, it's just worded oddly and would likely have caused more questions if they had tried to pin down the rule further knowing the writing.