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I've been having some bad experiences with Army Painter spray primer, recently (see link to my P&M blog below) , and I got to thinking.

Are there any methodical alternatives to spray primer other than the obvious 'grab a brush and brush it on?'.

I just don't think I can be bothered with the complete lottery of ...

If its hot it goes on crap
If its cold it goes on crap
If its humid it goes on crap
If your too far away it goes on crap
If you didn't clean your nozzle it goes on crap

Sigh.

Airbrush, airbrush primer (I like Vallejo PU surface primers).

Also use for varnishing.

You don't need an expensive airbrush for priming and varnishing.

Outside of an airbrush (and thus being able to spray inside if you have a ventilator set-up), not really. I live a swampy part of the US and can go for days without being able to spray.

winterdyne wrote:
Airbrush, airbrush primer (I like Vallejo PU surface primers).

Also use for varnishing.

You don't need an expensive airbrush for priming and varnishing.

Cheers. Any links to example kit I should be looking at?

When I first started out,I had 3 cans of Army Painter primer go to gak halfway through the can in a row and vowed never to use them again. It was Black/Metallic and White.

Nowadays, I either airbrush it or if its a larger model I use Valspar Matte Black. I live in super humid/hot South Carolina and the Valspar actually goes on well even in high humidity, if its available over there maybe give it a try. Its by far cheaper than GW/Army Painter cans.

It's strange but of all the methods of priming I find using a spray can the easiest and it also gets the best results.
With an airbrush there are too many variables (particularly before you become experienced)
With a brush it takes too long to get a nice smooth finish, and it's never as fine a coat.

 Zach wrote:
When I first started out,I had 3 cans of Army Painter primer go to gak halfway through the can in a row and vowed never to use them again. It was Black/Metallic and White.

Nowadays, I either airbrush it or if its a larger model I use Valspar Matte Black. I live in super humid/hot South Carolina and the Valspar actually goes on well even in high humidity, if its available over there maybe give it a try. Its by far cheaper than GW/Army Painter cans.

This sounds suspiciously what I've encountered, the can I have is definitely over half used and feels much lighter than when I received it.


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 Huron black heart wrote:
It's strange but of all the methods of priming I find using a spray can the easiest and it also gets the best results.
With an airbrush there are too many variables (particularly before you become experienced)
With a brush it takes too long to get a nice smooth finish, and it's never as fine a coat.

I've got some spare models lying around at home and a can of Corax White. I'll give that a go for now, as well as testing brushing on primer.

Brushing on primer doesn't scare me - if its really thin, like milk, it goes on evenly if a little translucently. I'd use a shade paint over this and then paint my initial base colour over this. I'm used to painting 2-3 mutliple thin coats for GW layer paints anyway to get a smooth result, so my method wouldn't change. A big enough brush makes brush-on priming easy enough.

The 'too many variables' of an airbrush does scare me, however.

 Furiyen wrote:

 Zach wrote:
When I first started out,I had 3 cans of Army Painter primer go to gak halfway through the can in a row and vowed never to use them again. It was Black/Metallic and White.

Nowadays, I either airbrush it or if its a larger model I use Valspar Matte Black. I live in super humid/hot South Carolina and the Valspar actually goes on well even in high humidity, if its available over there maybe give it a try. Its by far cheaper than GW/Army Painter cans.

This sounds suspiciously what I've encountered, the can I have is definitely over half used and feels much lighter than when I received it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Huron black heart wrote:
It's strange but of all the methods of priming I find using a spray can the easiest and it also gets the best results.
With an airbrush there are too many variables (particularly before you become experienced)
With a brush it takes too long to get a nice smooth finish, and it's never as fine a coat.

I've got some spare models lying around at home and a can of Corax White. I'll give that a go for now, as well as testing brushing on primer.

Brushing on primer doesn't scare me - if its really thin, like milk, it goes on evenly if a little translucently. I'd use a shade paint over this and then paint my initial base colour over this. I'm used to painting 2-3 mutliple thin coats for GW layer paints anyway to get a smooth result, so my method wouldn't change. A big enough brush makes brush-on priming easy enough.

The 'too many variables' of an airbrush does scare me, however.

I'm just about getting there with it but still prefer a rattle can for priming

 Furiyen wrote:

winterdyne wrote:
Airbrush, airbrush primer (I like Vallejo PU surface primers).

Also use for varnishing.

You don't need an expensive airbrush for priming and varnishing.

Cheers. Any links to example kit I should be looking at?

This'd get you started:
https://www.everythingairbrush.com/airbrushing-kits-brand/value-kit-range/finespray-kits/as-06-compressor-ab-130a-airbrush-starter-kit.html

You'll also want:
A 'dirty' work area. Get a plastic sheet for the carpet and desktop, or use a desk you don't mind getting overspray on.
Concentrated windscreen wash (3-4l), for cleaning.
Cotton buds (q-tips).
Vallejo airbrush thinner & cleaner
Vallejo PU surface primer(s) - can't really go wrong with black.
Winsor & Newton Galleria Satin varnish (My go-to topcoat, preserves metals pretty well, not too shiny for flat surfaces).
Winsor & Newton Galleria Gloss varnish (Gloss for decals and oil washing)
Winsor & Newton Galleria Matt varnish (I almost never use this).
2l bottle of clean water. (Squeezy bottle of water also really useful).
Toilet roll.
Plastic tub for tipping dregs into. I tend to loosely line one with loo roll and spray into it when cleaning.


Optional but very useful: An ultrasonic cleaner. James 7000 type (about £30) does fine. Helps with cleaning, but will eventually destroy the welds on the AB-130 type brush reservoir. Expect to have to reseal it (a smear of araldite does the job), or re-braze (tricky with all the chrome plate), or replace. It's a cheap gakky chinese airbrush so no great loss (about £15).

All in all, your outlay is about £120. Seems like a lot, but take it from me it works out more efficient than rattlecans pretty quickly.

I've had trouble with specialized primers for miniatures and really don't use them. Oddly I use the cheapest possible wall mart spray paints and get great results. More expensive ones are more likely to go bad in my experience.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Of course, that pretty much limits me to priming either white or black, but so it goes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
My theory is that the cheap paint is thinner somehow and does better for that reason.

So I've had a lot of trouble with Army Painter and GW sprays. I switched to priming with my airbrush, but my Vallejo Surface Primers all dried out. On a lark, I picked up Tamiya's Primer at Hobby Lobby. I live in Austin, TX and it was 108 degrees out. Was worried it wasn't going to work. I have to say, it was just as smooth as airbrushing. Never worked with a better primer. Cans are kinda small, but they have coupons for 40% off all the time. I would give it a try if you haven't. I may switch back to using cans now as it's a lot quicker.

Or if you don't want to bother with an airbrush, you can buy Vallejo PU primer that also can be brushed on suffer even more

I wouldn't brush on the vallejo primers unless there's a very practical reason to do so (ie almost never); the primary issue people have with them (durability) is almost always down to cure time. Thicker coats take longer to cure, and 24-48h is the minimum I like to leave even a thin airbrushed coat before handling it.

A second issue is they tend to thicken (especially the black I've found) once opened. I buy the smaller (25ml ish) bottles now for that reason.

The Tamiya primer is excellent (as you'd expect from Tamiya), but expensive. Soooo nice though.

I tend to use Tamiya sprays and find they're pretty forgiving so long as you spray them thin.

The downside to Tamiya primers for painting miniatures is even though they stick well to the model, the final surface is on the slick side and doesn't have a huge amount of bite.

If I'm not using a Tamiya spray primer, I'll use Gunze Mr Surfacer 1500 through my airbrush, thinned with Gunze self levelling thinner and use a nice big nozzle (0.5mm or 0.7mm).

I'll toss in another vote for Vallejo Polyurethane Surface Primers. They go on fabulous with an airbrush, I still thin mine a tad with flow improver even though the bottle says you can push them straight. I have also hairy brushed them on to bits before and had 0 problems. Like other posters have said definitely give them AT LEAST 18-24 hours later. My go to is to prime the evening before a day or two off so when I want to paint the following day I can get down to business. A far cry from the days of turning on the fan and throwing your t-shirt over your face in your local's bathroom and spraying a couple thin coats so you could start slopping layers on.

Edit: Just thought of a fun anecdote to go along with the end of my post. That behavior is how one of my local GWs got kicked out of our mall. The store manager would allow and advertise that he would let you dip into the back of the store to use their restroom to rattle can your models so you could sit at their very nice painting bar and finish it up, so you know you could buy whatever you didn't have already. On a particularly busy day and lots of dudes popping in and out of the improved spray booth enough chemicals had built up in the exhaust fan that the store's ceiling caught on fire as well as both of the stores next to them. Their lease was terminated and they had to move to a strip mall about 30 minutes away

The weather in my area is too variable to trust spray primers (rain, snow, humidity, etc.). I just use acrylic gesso now. Here's a link to a great article about Priming With Acrylic Gesso:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Priming_With_Acrylic_Gesso

People will tell you that gesso isn't meant for miniatures but I haven't had a problem with it. Apply 2-3 thin coats of gesso thinned with water, let it dry, and you're good to go. Treat it like applying a wash -- dab at the pools of excess. Yes this takes longer than using spray primers, but I can prime my minis 365 days of the year.

Here is an example of a mini that's been spray primed vs coated with gesso:

Acrylic Gesso. It's magic, thins well and can be tinted whatever colour you please. A 4oz tub for a few <local currency> will keep you going forever.

I've also found that Gesso works just fine, provided you aren't working on a model that has incredibly fine detail. Even thinned, the gesso I've used tends to obscure more detail than airbrushed Vallejo Surface Primer.

Currently I'm using an airbrush, and probably won't go back to the gesso; the airbrush is really nice for priming and then doing an incredibly solid basecoat. It also allows me to put on very even coats of paints that tend to be more difficult to do that with (yellows, some reds, whites, etc).

 anyname121 wrote:
Acrylic Gesso. It's magic, thins well and can be tinted whatever colour you please. A 4oz tub for a few <local currency> will keep you going forever.

Got a link to the one you use? Been eyeing up Hobbycraft this evening.

+1 for gesso. I started using it a couple of years ago after reading the article linked above, and have never looked back. In my experience, it gives great coverage, sticks to anything, and doesn't obscure details (assuming you apply it thinly).

Thinned Vallejo PU primer by brush. All it takes is one humid or hot day, or one bad can to ruin your work bia spray can. If you go with a dedicated airbrush setup, then you might get good results, but who wants to get bogged down dissabling and cleaning an airbrush.

I have found using my cheap, simple airbrush with flat enamel of the main base color the mini will be when it is finished not only gives a rock-hard base coat, but gets the main color knocked out in one step and speeds up your painting considerably. After all, why paint a primer just to paint over every inch of your mini again?

Flat enamels (like Testors) come in every color imaginable (nearly) and I can thin them down with thinner to run through my brush no problem. Gives a flawless base coat ready to paint with acrylics.

Its cool temperatures here in the UK.

My Wraithlord just got its third attempt at primer, with GW Corax White instead of the Army Painter Skull Bone.

Its gone gritty again.

*Throws all spray cans he owns in the bin in disgust*

 Furiyen wrote:
I've been having some bad experiences with Army Painter spray primer, recently (see link to my P&M blog below) , and I got to thinking.

Are there any methodical alternatives to spray primer other than the obvious 'grab a brush and brush it on?'.

I just don't think I can be bothered with the complete lottery of ...

If its hot it goes on crap
If its cold it goes on crap
If its humid it goes on crap
If your too far away it goes on crap
If you didn't clean your nozzle it goes on crap

Sigh.

I had a similar problem one year, where it rained all spring, then it got too hot so I could not spray undercoat or varnish.

So I switched to using brush on varnish and simply washing the minis and then painting them over bare metal/plastic. The first coat can sometimes (rarely) be a bit rough, but after I apply a wash on top things seem to work out fine.

Got a link to the one you use? Been eyeing up Hobbycraft this evening.

HobbyCraft's own. DecoArt stuff from there is about a few squid and it's perfect. The surface is so matte as well, like a spray can.

 Furiyen wrote:
Its cool temperatures here in the UK.

My Wraithlord just got its third attempt at primer, with GW Corax White instead of the Army Painter Skull Bone.

Its gone gritty again.

*Throws all spray cans he owns in the bin in disgust*

There are dozens of posts on "gritty" primer.

More than likely its not the primer (so get it out of the rubbish bin).

This happens when the paint starts to dry mid flight. Its not the spray can - it is how far the can is held from the model when spraying. hold it a bit closer but go in fast even strokes.

Do a search - you will find literally dozens of posts on it.

I've tried Army Painter, Rustolem Sandable Auto Primer, Tamaiya White, GW's black primer, and Vallejo's small bottle white primer.

I liked the Army Painter stuff. It seemed to go on thin, but it sort of seemed less like primer and more like acrylic. I felt the same thing with GW's. It's also more temperamental than Rustoleum's cheap auto primer, and seven or so times the price.

Rustoleum's cheap sandable auto primer from Walmart is what I've used the most. So long as I don't spray from too far away and get the gritty surface, it seems to behave well. I do have one can that tends to crack, which is irritating, but it doesn't happen often and most of the surface is smooth and detail seems to be unobscured. That said, I've seen some very very badly primed models done with the same paint. I think it's people who put on multiple coats. I have a friend whose marines' eyes are all filled in by the stuff. Just don't hold it on the model. Sweeps.

The Tamaiya primer seemed to go on thicker than I'd like the few times I used it, and its surfaces are smoother than I'd like for gripping paint. That said, I've only used it a few times, and only from the one can, so it might be an ancient can or something.

I brush on the Vallejo primer if I've primed with glossy airbrush stuff for Alclad, and I've used it through an airbrush. I've mixed it with colored paint to make a sort of crap colored primer and that seemed to work well and go on very thin and smooth. I like the outcome and I think I'll be doing it more in the future. Cleaning the airbrush is irritating but acetone's cheap.

 Furiyen wrote:
I've been having some bad experiences with Army Painter spray primer, recently (see link to my P&M blog below) , and I got to thinking.

Are there any methodical alternatives to spray primer other than the obvious 'grab a brush and brush it on?'.

I just don't think I can be bothered with the complete lottery of ...

If its hot it goes on crap
If its cold it goes on crap
If its humid it goes on crap
If your too far away it goes on crap
If you didn't clean your nozzle it goes on crap

Sigh.

When I was having issues with Krylon spray primer someone on here suggested I try out Dupli-color sandable auto primer. stuff is amazing such a smooth finish, zero issues with it yet. just sprayed with it today on a fairly humid day here and it was fine. my previous primers would 'spit' sometimes out of the spout, but this one hasn't done that to me yet.

I don't prime I just use acrylics straight onto the plastic .never had any issues

 CURNOW wrote:
I don't prime I just use acrylics straight onto the plastic .never had any issues

You monster.