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Pistols are tucked under their own branch, but lack the Assault type - which is funny given they are the epitome of run and gun I didn't see in the FAQ, and that's the only 7th edition thing I keep getting stuck in my head (that and CC with it)

No, pistols are pistols. They are their own class of weapon with their own little special rule that allows you to shoot them when locked in combat.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
No, pistols are pistols. They are their own class of weapon with their own little special rule that allows you to shoot them when locked in combat.

Meh, they're still assault even if GW has forgotten the word. The pistol in CC already existed before 8th, and the wording is terrible. In terms of their intended use, they are the epitome of the assault rule.

 ncshooter426 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
No, pistols are pistols. They are their own class of weapon with their own little special rule that allows you to shoot them when locked in combat.

Meh, they're still assault even if GW has forgotten the word. The pistol in CC already existed before 8th, and the wording is terrible. In terms of their intended use, they are the epitome of the assault rule.

No they're not Assault. Assault weapons have a whole different set of rules in this edition.

 Ghaz wrote:

No they're not Assault. Assault weapons have a whole different set of rules in this edition.

I understand that - I'm pointing out the absurdity in their wording and the splitting of the two. A pistol may still be an assault weapon, just one with a stupid short range. Submitted DCR on it.

No, because a Pistol can't be fired after the unit advances and an Assault weapon can't be fired if there are enemy models within 1". Assault weapons and Pistols are nothing alike in 8th edition.

Doesnt seem like a YMDC thread.

more like a proposed rule

 Desubot wrote:
Doesnt seem like a YMDC thread.

more like a proposed rule

I suppose. I have the rulebook, I didn't need the rules read back to me. Is there a better spot to dissect some of the more poorly worded sections of the rules rather than here?

 ncshooter426 wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Doesnt seem like a YMDC thread.

more like a proposed rule

I suppose. I have the rulebook, I didn't need the rules read back to me. Is there a better spot to dissect some of the more poorly worded sections of the rules rather than here?

Sounds like a general discussion kinda thing.

while i get that a pistol would realistically be simple to run and gun with (according to da movies) , concessions have to be made to make a game balanced.

 Desubot wrote:

while i get that a pistol would realistically be simple to run and gun with (according to da movies) , concessions have to be made to make a game balanced.

I agree - but pistols were already CC weapons. Didn't really gain anything by saying "Hey! you can fire if you're within 1!" -- the only way that happens is on the charge, you're fighting anyway They just took the old rules about gunslinger and CC pistols and made it into just pistol as the base type. It really seems to hurt fast troops that rely on pistols (seraphim for example) if they can't take advantage of their lightning hit style engagements.

 ncshooter426 wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

while i get that a pistol would realistically be simple to run and gun with (according to da movies) , concessions have to be made to make a game balanced.

I agree - but pistols were already CC weapons. Didn't really gain anything by saying "Hey! you can fire if you're within 1!" -- the only way that happens is on the charge, you're fighting anyway They just took the old rules about gunslinger and CC pistols and made it into just pistol as the base type. It really seems to hurt fast troops that rely on pistols (seraphim for example) if they can't take advantage of their lightning hit style engagements.

Well they gained a lot to be honest. Plasma pistols used to cost a lot of points and you only got +1A from them. Now you can actually fire some plasma on your opponents face in CC and they are half the points they used to be. And just to make sure, you do know that you can fire any type of weapon (pistol, rapid-fire even heavy) and still charge? So pistol wielding units have suffered none. On the contrary I would say.

 ncshooter426 wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Doesnt seem like a YMDC thread.

more like a proposed rule

I suppose. I have the rulebook, I didn't need the rules read back to me. Is there a better spot to dissect some of the more poorly worded sections of the rules rather than here?

Its not poorly worded. Its actually really clear what the differences between a pistol and an assault weapon is.
You can advance with an assault weapon and shoot it. You can't do that with a pistol.
Every weapon allows you to charge after firing it now. That overall restriction is gone.

Both Assault weapons and Pistols have their own tactical niches now. One is not the other.

It was kind of silly that Pistol, with low AP, could just add another attack to a high AP weapon profile in 7th, but now they get to use their own profile when being shot in CC in the Shooting Phase.

Can pistol weilding orkz/grotz on a battlewagon fire their pistols at units in CC with the battlewagon?

 Rismonite wrote:
Can pistol weilding orkz/grotz on a battlewagon fire their pistols at units in CC with the battlewagon?

The only requirement is that it must target the closest enemy unit. Chances are pretty good that the unit in CC with the Battlewagon is the closest enemy unit. (I'm assuming the Battlewagon has some rule allowing passengers to fire out like being open topped or something.)

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 ncshooter426 wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Doesnt seem like a YMDC thread.

more like a proposed rule

I suppose. I have the rulebook, I didn't need the rules read back to me. Is there a better spot to dissect some of the more poorly worded sections of the rules rather than here?

Its not poorly worded. Its actually really clear what the differences between a pistol and an assault weapon is.
You can advance with an assault weapon and shoot it. You can't do that with a pistol.
Every weapon allows you to charge after firing it now. That overall restriction is gone.

Note: I didn't say IT was poorly worded, I said "some of the more poorly worded...". If we're going to rules lawyer, I'm going to point it out

Pistols were always assault. From a mechanical standpoint, it's absolutely absurd that they aren't. This impacts characters that have dual pistols (and no melee) who are designed to be mobile - Seraphim are my main example. They lost the ability to rush and shoot, lost the ability to disengage and re-charge, and lost all of their attacks for having 2 pistols. They have a better WS than a stock sister, yet a single attack on a generic melee profile. That is beyond dumb.

Gdub can keep the core pistol mechanics, but needs to address the stupid scenarios of unique units that hoof two of them as their mains. The added recent nerf to Seraphim flamer hits made it even more absurd. The only use for them now is to shoot things that are engaged with Celestine, rather than shoot-charge-shoot hit and run that they've always carried by their very nature.

 Weazel wrote:

 ncshooter426 wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

while i get that a pistol would realistically be simple to run and gun with (according to da movies) , concessions have to be made to make a game balanced.

I agree - but pistols were already CC weapons. Didn't really gain anything by saying "Hey! you can fire if you're within 1!" -- the only way that happens is on the charge, you're fighting anyway They just took the old rules about gunslinger and CC pistols and made it into just pistol as the base type. It really seems to hurt fast troops that rely on pistols (seraphim for example) if they can't take advantage of their lightning hit style engagements.

Well they gained a lot to be honest. Plasma pistols used to cost a lot of points and you only got +1A from them. Now you can actually fire some plasma on your opponents face in CC and they are half the points they used to be. And just to make sure, you do know that you can fire any type of weapon (pistol, rapid-fire even heavy) and still charge? So pistol wielding units have suffered none. On the contrary I would say.

What he said. The only confusion is when you try to apply old standards to the new system. Pistols are actually much better off than they used to be, unless the model is a lousy shot.

So you're lamenting rather than needing clarification or asking a question? Feel like this would be better directed to GW than appearing to be a question thread.

 Kriswall wrote:

 Rismonite wrote:
Can pistol weilding orkz/grotz on a battlewagon fire their pistols at units in CC with the battlewagon?

The only requirement is that it must target the closest enemy unit. Chances are pretty good that the unit in CC with the Battlewagon is the closest enemy unit. (I'm assuming the Battlewagon has some rule allowing passengers to fire out like being open topped or something.)

The battlewagon's open-topped rule specifically addresses this: if the battlewagon is in close combat the unit may not fire out of it(except with pistols).

Sounds to me like the OP is still using the old definition of Assault when it comes to weapons. By the old rules definition, pistols still function as "assault", i.e., you can move and shoot and charge with no penalty with a pistol. Thing is, assault weapons work differently in 8th, and pistols do not work in the same manner.