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Ultramarines: can still fire after falling back (best guess at simulating old voluntary fail morale and auto regroup)
Imperial Fists: roll one extra die for each model in a unit when firing boltguns, bolt rifles, and heavy bolters (some form of bolter drill)
Crimson Fists: bolter drill, but only for special issue bolters, and the bolter part of combi weapons
Black Templar: 6" consolidation moves (dunno, I'm sure others will have better ideas)
White Scars: can charge after falling back (a sorta hit and run)
Salamanders: roll twice, keep highest for flamer hits
Raven Guard: add 2" to charge roll (not very creative... maybe a stealth mechanic of some sort)
Iron Hands: -1 to enemy's to wound roll (maybe just the less potent +1 to T)

Better/different ideas?

Probably would have better luck with this in general discussion or the news and rumors thread. Not really a rules issue

This should be moved to general discussion.

That being said, I'd love for a nostalgic take on some of the chapter rules.

Blood Angels Rhinos and Razorbacks advance 6" instead of d6. The red ones go fasta after all.

I'd like for some rule restricting or interacting with Dark Angels and Inquisition units.

Iron Hands will probably get a useless 6+++

Lamenters get a -1 to every roll but you always win a moral victory :-P

Very sry, posting from phone, not sure what I did. Thought I was in GD

If Iron Hands get +1 Toughness when Nurgle doesn't, I will be very peeved.

+T is a 30k Legion rule, not a Chapter Tactic. Iron Hands are more likely to get 6+ FNP back.

Dark Angels get +1 attack when facing a traitor legion.

Space Wolves...hmm...Counter Attack - +1 attack when charged or Accute Senses - make something up that might require freakishly good senses.

UM: Probably the doctrines again
IF: devastators re roll to hit against vehicles (similar to tankbustas). Boltguns get +1 strength
WS: Bike troops (aside characters), can charge after falling back
RG: +2 when in cover, Jump Pack units become troops (aside characters)
IH: +1 Toughness, +1 bravery
Salamanders: Heavy Flamer as a heavy weapon option, re reroll to wound with flamers and meltas

Some of those are obviously unbalanced. I don't expect them to be balanced against one another. It's hard to make RG and Salamanders fluffy and yet balanced against the others IMO.

Salamanders: roll 2 dice and pick the highest when using flamers.
Ravenguard: Deepstrike assault squads able to arrive closer than 9 inches
Black Templar: Re-rollable charge range. More ZEAL!!
Imperial fists: +2 cover when stationary in ruins for 2 turns or more.
White scars: Faster bikes!
Gork and morks legion: WAAAAAAAAGGGGHH!!! ---** Order: Exterminatus **----
Dark Angels: The ability to deny any accusations of heresy on a 2+

we're assuming chapter tactics will be simply a random buff passivly added to our units. I don't think thats a good assumption. I think we're more likely to see chapter specific stratigiums. as our chapter tactics.

Instead of "Chapter Abilities", I'd like to see "Chapter Disadvantages".

Specific chapters should not simply make a chapter "vanilla marines, BUT BETTER!!!!!"

...and yes, I'm specifically looking at Blood Angles, Dark Angles, Space Wolves, etc...

Chapter codicies should be zero sum. You should be forced to give up something for every advantage you get, and it should be something you feel when you play.

When you play Blood Angels, you should be thinking to yourself "Because I'm BA, I can do this, and it makes my army awesome!". But you should also be thinking to yourself, "Man, if I wasn't BA, I could do that instead."

I wouldn't be shocked to see a similar ability to Grim Resolve for the Dark Angels again - bonus to firing Overwatch would actually be quite nice in this edition.

 Arandmoor wrote:
Instead of "Chapter Abilities", I'd like to see "Chapter Disadvantages".

Specific chapters should not simply make a chapter "vanilla marines, BUT BETTER!!!!!"

...and yes, I'm specifically looking at Blood Angles, Dark Angles, Space Wolves, etc...

Chapter codicies should be zero sum. You should be forced to give up something for every advantage you get, and it should be something you feel when you play.

When you play Blood Angels, you should be thinking to yourself "Because I'm BA, I can do this, and it makes my army awesome!". But you should also be thinking to yourself, "Man, if I wasn't BA, I could do that instead."

It would be interesting to see something for Blood Angels like:

Benefits
- After a BA unit suffers a wound roll a D6 on a 6 the wound is ignored
- BA infantry units get +1 to hit and wound in the fight phase

Disadvantages
- BA infantry units can never fall back from a fight
- If a BA infantry unit loses combat they immediately suffer 1 mortal wound with no saves of any kind allowed

Basically infantry are monsters on the fight phase and keep their vampiric trait. However they are so sure of their combat prowess they never fall back and when they do start to lose a fight they start to fall over.

 Arandmoor wrote:
Instead of "Chapter Abilities", I'd like to see "Chapter Disadvantages".

Specific chapters should not simply make a chapter "vanilla marines, BUT BETTER!!!!!"

...and yes, I'm specifically looking at Blood Angles, Dark Angles, Space Wolves, etc...

Chapter codicies should be zero sum. You should be forced to give up something for every advantage you get, and it should be something you feel when you play.

When you play Blood Angels, you should be thinking to yourself "Because I'm BA, I can do this, and it makes my army awesome!". But you should also be thinking to yourself, "Man, if I wasn't BA, I could do that instead."

Chapter traits were a thing in 4th which gave me the opportunity to create my own chapter along with advantages and disadvantages. It was a very enjoyable time for wargaming and the Imperial Guard had their doctrines. But I don´t think GW will penalize players of the big four chapters by adding disadvantages to their factions.

Instead of "Chapter Abilities", I'd like to see "Chapter Disadvantages".

Specific chapters should not simply make a chapter "vanilla marines, BUT BETTER!!!!!"

...and yes, I'm specifically looking at Blood Angles, Dark Angles, Space Wolves, etc...

Chapter codicies should be zero sum. You should be forced to give up something for every advantage you get, and it should be something you feel when you play.

When you play Blood Angels, you should be thinking to yourself "Because I'm BA, I can do this, and it makes my army awesome!". But you should also be thinking to yourself, "Man, if I wasn't BA, I could do that instead."

You're absolutely correct, I couldn't agree more!

In the 3rd edition Salamanders rules (from WD 274) you got some cool new force org options, wargear, flamers in assult squads, melta devestators in tactic squads, a unique psycic power etc. but that came at the cost of being -1 initiative across the board and deducting 1" from any sweeping advance or fall back moves. This made it an interesting decision to model/paint your marines as a particular chapter rather than a flat advantage.

To translate this into 8th edition I would suggest something along the following lines;
• Deduct 1" from any run move made by a unit with the chapter key word 'Salamanders', 'Black Dragons' or 'Storm Giants'.
• A player no longer has access to the 'counter-offensive' strategum if their Warlord has the chaper key word 'Salamanders', 'Black Dragons' or 'Storm Giants'.

I can't agree more with the bonus and drawback option.

I've actually suggested something similar for my Ultramarines a couple of times in previous conversations and really think that is what adds character to an army. I was never really happy with just simply having re-rolls across units all the time in 7th as with the use of a gladius and then adding in Calgar or Guilliman you could get 9 doctrines a game and have re-rolls every turn, picking and choosing what benefited you without any cost.

Something like a once per game "fury of the legion" type ability for tactical squads so you're forced to remain still for a turn and maybe "tank/monster hunter" once per game for devastators but they must give up split fire for that turn. For assault marines, maybe a "hammer of wrath" equivalent but only if they charge out of deep strike. These are just suggestions off the top of my head but something akin to these risk/reward bonuses would be really interesting and force you to make really challenging decisions in game and give your army that character everyone so craves.

 Strg Alt wrote:


Chapter traits were a thing in 4th which gave me the opportunity to create my own chapter along with advantages and disadvantages. It was a very enjoyable time for wargaming and the Imperial Guard had their doctrines. But I don´t think GW will penalize players of the big four chapters by adding disadvantages to their factions.

4th ed marines...

You mean Matt's (?) marine fan-fic codex? That was actually exactly what I was thinking of when I was thinking of example of how not to do it.

That codex's traits system was an abomination because it let you take disadvantages that you never felt.

Very specifically, you should notice your disadvantages during play. The 4th ed codex didn't do that.

Gibs55 wrote:

It would be interesting to see something for Blood Angels like:

Benefits
- After a BA unit suffers a wound roll a D6 on a 6 the wound is ignored
- BA infantry units get +1 to hit and wound in the fight phase

Disadvantages
- BA infantry units can never fall back from a fight
- If a BA infantry unit loses combat they immediately suffer 1 mortal wound with no saves of any kind allowed

Basically infantry are monsters on the fight phase and keep their vampiric trait. However they are so sure of their combat prowess they never fall back and when they do start to lose a fight they start to fall over.

Exactly like this. "Cannot make fall back moves" is something you will notice because it means you can't leverage your gunline if you've been fighting in CC.

Any Other possibilities for other chapters?

I might suggest the following...

Dark Angels
- Rumors of the Fallen: Before bringing a Deathwing unit in from reserve roll a die. On a 3+ the unit arrives from reserve as normal. Otherwise the unit has prioritized tracking down a rumor of one of the fallen in the area and do not arrive this turn. On subsequent turns roll a die and add 1 to the roll for every round the unit failed to appear.

Deathwing termies are scary, but they know what their priorities are, and your game isn't at the top of the list.

Space Wolves: I have no ideas here. I don't know this chapter at all.

Additionally, you could also give their opponents additional stratagems of some kind...

Dark Angels Opposing Stratagems:
- Rumor of the Fallen [2 CP]: Use when a Dark Angels player attempts to place a unit of Deathwing Terminators on the board, or in a teleportation chamber, during normal placement. The unit MUST be placed in reserve and can only arrive via teleportation more than 9" from an enemy model at the end of their movement phase if a 6+ is rolled on a die. The Dark Angels player adds the turn number to the roll.

Just for gaks and gigs, BA tacticals should be allowed to take jump packs, or BA should be allowed to take ASM as troops.

 Lobukia wrote:
Ultramarines: can still fire after falling back (best guess at simulating old voluntary fail morale and auto regroup)
Imperial Fists: roll one extra die for each model in a unit when firing boltguns, bolt rifles, and heavy bolters (some form of bolter drill)
Crimson Fists: bolter drill, but only for special issue bolters, and the bolter part of combi weapons
Black Templar: 6" consolidation moves (dunno, I'm sure others will have better ideas)
White Scars: can charge after falling back (a sorta hit and run)
Salamanders: roll twice, keep highest for flamer hits
Raven Guard: add 2" to charge roll (not very creative... maybe a stealth mechanic of some sort)
Iron Hands: -1 to enemy's to wound roll (maybe just the less potent +1 to T)

Better/different ideas?

I want to say
Ultramarines: general rerolls of 1s or more command points (general all rounders rather than masters)
Imperial fists: reroll all 1s of bolter type weapons (meh) reroll all failed to wounds for a dev squad stratigem
Crimson fists: ditto, something for sternguard
Black templar: reroll to charge strat
White scars: charge after falling back start 99% sure
Salamanders: reroll flamers is already their captain power. mabye the to wound or something
Raven guard: probably reroll to charge or something infiltrate related
Iron hands: on 6s ignore a wound trick.

Iron Hands:
Advantages
- The Wisdom of Mars: Iron Hands space marines get +1 to wound enemy vehicles.
- Bionics: Iron Hands space marines ignore wounds on a 6.

Disadvantages
- The Anger of Mars: Iron Hands space marines (that are not in a devastator squad) must advance during the movement phase if there are any enemy vehicles within 10", and must end their advance move closer to the vehicle than they started.
- The Fury of Mars: Iron Hands space marines must attempt to charge enemy vehicles that are no more than 10" away if possible.
- The Iron Eye of Mars: Iron Hands space marines must fire all lascannons, melta weapons, and missile launchers at enemy vehicles if any are in range.

Red Scorpions

All Tactical Sergeants (and Primaris Tactical Sergeants) get the Apothecary's "Restore a Model/D3 Wounds" Ability


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Red Scorpions

All Tactical Sergeants (and Primaris Tactical Sergeants) get the Apothecary's "Restore a Model/D3 Wounds" Ability

Personally I think stuff like gaining +1 to wound and hit or rerolls of any kind are way too strong for a chapter speciality, especially when there are similar bonuses on characters. Those sort of stacking bonuses are what spoilt 7th edition! I would like to see things which add a little character without greatly enhancing the units combat perfomance.

For example, Blood Angels tactical squads could swap their bolters for a bolt pistol and CCW at no extra cost, which would show their assult focus without making them much better than normal tacticals.
Or Ultramarine units could gain 1 leadership if you have at least 1 unit in the troops, fast attack, heavy support and elite force org slots to show the advantages of fighting in accordance with the strictures of the Codex: Astartes.

The old adage less is more is emminently applicable here imo.

 Kroem wrote:
Personally I think stuff like gaining +1 to wound and hit or rerolls of any kind are way too strong for a chapter speciality, especially when there are similar bonuses on characters. Those sort of stacking bonuses are what spoilt 7th edition! I would like to see things which add a little character without greatly enhancing the units combat perfomance.

For example, Blood Angels tactical squads could swap their bolters for a bolt pistol and CCW at no extra cost, which would show their assult focus without making them much better than normal tacticals.
Or Ultramarine units could gain 1 leadership if you have at least 1 unit in the troops, fast attack, heavy support and elite force org slots to show the advantages of fighting in accordance with the strictures of the Codex: Astartes.

The old adage less is more is emminently applicable here imo.

Its kinda why i think these bonuses will be chapter specific stratagems. that way you cannot spam them.

 Arandmoor wrote:
Instead of "Chapter Abilities", I'd like to see "Chapter Disadvantages".

Specific chapters should not simply make a chapter "vanilla marines, BUT BETTER!!!!!"

...and yes, I'm specifically looking at Blood Angles, Dark Angles, Space Wolves, etc...

Chapter codicies should be zero sum. You should be forced to give up something for every advantage you get, and it should be something you feel when you play.

When you play Blood Angels, you should be thinking to yourself "Because I'm BA, I can do this, and it makes my army awesome!". But you should also be thinking to yourself, "Man, if I wasn't BA, I could do that instead."

We already have that, usually it's in available units.
Space Wolves have all the furry fury but don't have access to the Flying Potatoes, don't have access to Grav or Heavy Weapons in Troops choices, don't have access to various bits and bobs and there are times, usually halfway through a list build you'll think I wish I'd never picked this army!!!

Chapter Abilities for the most part are so situational they're often irrelevant.

Counter-attack +1 attack when you're charged, tell me that matters against Guard, Tau or Eldar when you're running about with S10 hammers and their whole gameplan is to stay the hell away from you and keep shooting.
Accute Senses lets you re-roll the table edge deployment results when outflanking, until Curse of the Wulfen gave SWs the Deathwolves FOC the only way to get Outflank on the Wolves was lucking out on Warlord Traits with the Wolves Unleashed detachment.

Thousand Sons: Everything that doesn't cast, can now cast Smite.

What I would like:


What I wouldn't be surprised to see:

@Selym re: Ultramarines: as it should be.

Kel'Shan Sept:

Jewel of the Earth Caste: When creating an army with Kel'Shan keyword your commanders/vehicles/battlesuits may purchase an additional piece of gear from the signature systems, wargear, or vehicle equipment. Kel'Shan Sept armies may purchae each additional signature system beyond the normal limit of one per army up to one additional time for each entry.

Advanced Protoytpe: Kel'shan Sept armies may purchase an additional elite unit in detachment they take.

Fear the Xenos: When fighting any xenos race they gain +1 morale when fighting xenos armies and reroll 1's to hit.

Siege Breaker Assault: Kel'shan are infamous for loving close combat assaults to break sieges with high tech close ranged combat. You may spend two command points to roll two dice for all attacks a unit makes and discard the lowest dice.

Mistrust the Auxiliary: May not purchase any auxiliary units.

Elite Forces: One less troop slot in detachments is available to you.

One less Chapter ability to guess. Ultramarines got their Chapter tactic revealed today.

+1 Ld, can shoot after falling back with -1 to hit.

I like that more than the rerolling everything ever of their X Doctrines.

 Lobukia wrote:
Ultramarines: can still fire after falling back (best guess at simulating old voluntary fail morale and auto regroup)
Imperial Fists: roll one extra die for each model in a unit when firing boltguns, bolt rifles, and heavy bolters (some form of bolter drill)
Crimson Fists: bolter drill, but only for special issue bolters, and the bolter part of combi weapons
Black Templar: 6" consolidation moves (dunno, I'm sure others will have better ideas)
White Scars: can charge after falling back (a sorta hit and run)
Salamanders: roll twice, keep highest for flamer hits
Raven Guard: add 2" to charge roll (not very creative... maybe a stealth mechanic of some sort)
Iron Hands: -1 to enemy's to wound roll (maybe just the less potent +1 to T)

Better/different ideas?

So far, you're 1 for 1, with the Ultramarines being dead on.