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Hi,

I'm not sure if I misunderstood something on my first 8th game yesterday and this is a rules question or everything is all right and this is a tactics one.

Please excuse me if it's obviously a tactic and not a problem with the rules.

I was playing genestealer cults against space marines and the space marine player deployed some of his units filling the upper floors of a ruin.

I charged the multiple units and then realized I would not have a lot of attacks because it was very difficult for me to fit units next to the marines occupying most of the "balcony".

As stated on the rules distances are measured from bases and you can attack with a unit if it's 1" of an enemy model or if it's within 1" a model from the attacking unit.

At the end of my charge the situation was as it's seen in the attached image (I photoshoped 2 pictures to better depict the end of pile in moment).

I was able to positon two genestealers on every upper floor because the defending player moved their models so mine could fit but he could have blocked me from accessing the models either by placing one or two models more on every floor or by refusing to move their models and spacing them a bit so no genestealer did fit.

As you can stand in the ruin floors but not "between floors" and there is more than 1" between floors would a unit that covered a "ledge" be impossible to charge?

I did not find any rule regarding vertical distances being any different regarding close combat (although they are different regrading unit coherency).

Am I missing some rule or is this a incredibly powerful tactic?

Thanks!

The only way to get a few more models in is via the wobbly model syndrome rule p 177. You could move onto the ruin edges etc that way.

But it remains a pretty powerful tactic to take on hordes CC.

I knew about the wobbly rule but I'm not sure if it applies I'll post it for reference:

WOBBLY MODEL SYNDROME
Sometimes you may find that a particular piece of terrain makes it hard to put a model exactly where you want. If you delicately balance it in place, it is very likely to fall as soon as somebody nudges the table, leaving your painted model damaged or even broken. In cases like this, we find it is perfectly acceptable to leave the model in a safer position, as long as both players have agreed and know its ‘actual’ location. If, later on, your enemy is considering shooting the model, you will have to hold it back in the proper place so they can check if it is visible.

If that's all there is it leaves a lot to the interpretation of "wobbly". In my example I could not balance any more models in any way so I guess the rule as worded would prevent me of putting more than there is on the picture. The "it's very likely to fall" seems to indicate that there has to be a change of not falling. Which would not be the case for any other model.

In my particular game it did not matter because it was a totally friendly game but I don't like the general solution (at least with the scenery I have available) and not just because my army is the CC horde one :-P Maybe we'll have to establish some house rule beforehand next time.

Anyway... I compiled the two other relevant rules (I guess) in case someone stumbles with this post and wants to take a look at it:

MOVING (pg. 178)
A model can be moved in any direction, to a distance, in inches, equal to or less than the Move characteristic on its datasheet. No part of the model’s base (or hull) can move further than this. It cannot be moved through other models or through terrain features such as walls, but can be moved vertically in order to climb or traverse any scenery.

RUINS (pg. 249, optional)
The galaxy is littered with the remains of once-proud cities. Unless they can FLY, VEHICLES, MONSTERS and BIKES can only end their move on the ground floor of ruins.
INFANTRY are assumed to be able to scale walls and traverse through windows, doors and portals readily.
These models can therefore move through the floors and walls of a ruin without further impediment.

Wonder if this helps

Q. What happens when an Infantry model cannot
completely end its move on a floor of ruins when
attempting to scale the walls?
A. If an Infantry model is unable to complete a move
to a stable position, use the Wobbly Model Syndrome
guidelines in the core rules to identify with your
opponent where your model’s actual location is.

Located in the stepping into new edition faq

I think it's pretty clear from the rules and FAQ that your units can move vertically to climb the walls (to get within 1") and use WMS if they can't make it all the way up to the floor being assaulted.

This is the second thread on this topic on this page

Yes, please search the forum for an existing topic before posting a new one.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/732157.page