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I managed to get enough models to just barely reach the 1,000 point minimum requirement for the Fate of Konor thing. This week is 1,000, next week is 1,250, etc. Not sure I'll be able to participate beyond this week, but we'll have to see.

What I brought to the game:

Overlord with Res Orb and Warscythe
Cryptek
11 Warriors
10 Warriors
1 Annihilation Barge with the big gun
1 Triarch Stalker
3 Scarabs
3 Wraiths

I achieved 998 points by throwing all of my models (Except for 1 warrior) on the table.

I don't know what my opponent's units were called, he was playing Tyranids. This is a picture of his stuff from after the game http://i.imgur.com/SIqj4nS.jpg and doesn't show a group of about 15-18 smaller infantry dudes. His Warlord, which had a long, narrow base and was a psyker, is the model just to the left of the really big one in front.

Basically his entire army was 15 or so small guys who he said got 4 attacks each because there was a large number of them. They also could hit for moral wounds, meaning I had no saves. Backing up the 15 or so guys were 3 guys sitting back in a fort sniping with big guns. A huge cannon-faced bug that fired 12 shots at a time for 2 damage each. A thing that popped out of the ground with 12 wounds. Two big bugs that he said were close combat monsters.

He also got an extra command point because he brought 3 Heavy Support.

So things didn't go well. We were doing the Fate of Konor scenario and I was the defender, so he got to go first. The very first thing he did was kill my Barge with the guy that shoots 12 times. He fired off a salvo for 7 wounds.. which turned out to be 14 wounds because it does 2 damage each per hit with no armor save for me.

He then begins charging across the table at me and using psyker powers to knock off my models here and there. I massed my Warriors near the center with the Cryptek and Overlord, and tried to shoot the incoming group of smaller guys, killing a couple.

I sent my Scarabs and Wraiths up one side to engage his two big melee specialists. That turned out to be a mistake, all it did was cause me to lose those models.

On his next turn, the really big bug pops up beside my guys, does a bunch of wounds to them and he says "Don't worry, it can't assault you this turn." I ask how many wounds it has.. he says 12. Don't worry huh?

On my turn, I try to focus down the really big guy who is ontop of me now, and just manage to put some wounds on it. He proceeds to kill more of my Wraiths as he says his attacks do 3 damage each.. that's enough to 1 shot each Wraith.

His turn, he charges into me with the big swarm of 11 or so little guys, plus his warlord, plus the huge 12 wound model. He gathers 30+ dice for his attacks versus my group of 6 warriors (Who were getting hit by psyker powers for mortal wounds the whole game) and wipes them out. He gets another handful of 10+ dice for my remaining group of 8 or so warriors and I decided to throw in the towel. There was no possible way to do anything and being totally honest, I wasn't having fun at that point.

So my thoughts on the whole thing. It was fun setting up my models and seeing my whole collection laid out, even though they're just primer black for the most part. It was also fun building a list and trying to think of how to use each of my units. (Putting the Barge and Stalker on each flank with infantry in the center) It was also cool meeting some people I don't know, and seeing some faces I was familiar with as I used to play Magic The Gathering at that store.

Now for the bad part. I'm not impressed at all by balance in this game. Maybe I'm a terrible general, but it really felt like there was just no way for me to possibly win that game. Everything in his army seemed to have "it's a special rule" that let him do something extra or made his units incredibly good. He had so many rerolls from abilities, and extra distance on movements.. and assaulting me in melee after moving 8 inches, advancing another 4 then charging.

I feel like I only had two units that could possibly deal with his big stuff, and that was my Barge and Stalker. The Barge died in one go, and the Stalker doing 2 shots for D6 damage each had no hope of stopping any of his big stuff. My army felt massively out-classed unit for unit and if we added things up, I feel like I had maybe 15 more models than him on the table in total. I'm pretty sure he had more wounds than me overall, and much higher toughness and saves and damage potential. It also was very disheartening that most of the times I got hit, I wasn't even allowed an armor save and had to resort to depending on my Cryptek's 5+ invulnerable aura.

I'm kind of discouraged, because I can't think of anything else I could have done to fight back. The whole drive home, I was going over it in my mind and couldn't help but come to the conclusion that my army couldn't win that fight.

I posted in the facebook group that I'd like to try again sometime next week, but expressed that I'm still a beginner with a beginner army. Hopefully someone other than a Tyranids player will want to play. I can't imagine ever beating that army.

Well first off, welcome to 40k!

The first and most important thing I will say is don't let yourself get discouraged. It's never fun to lose your first game when trying out something new, I know that from experience. You said you enjoyed putting your models all out on the table and building the army list, which is good! You should be enjoying that part. Now just like anything you will lose some games, you will have some bad games, but don't let that get you down or drive you from the hobby. Just keep on trying and play a few more games.

Honestly from what you posted it seems like your opponent took a very optimized list to this game (squeezing everything he could out of his 1000 points) while you struggled just to get to that points value, meaning your army was stretched thinner and was less optimized. Not exactly something someone should bring to someone's first game, especially if their struggling just to make the points cost. Why your opponent brought the list he did, I can't really say. Was he aware this was your first game? If you can, rather than just playing whoever walks in the door, try and sit down and talk with some of the other players, whether its before hand through social media or the day of at your store. Explain to them that you're brand new and would like a demo game or two. Unless you are unlucky enough to play in a really bad area with a bunch of terrible hole players, you should find a few guys willing to show you the ropes.

I understand you were playing the whole Fate of Konor thing which required 1000 points, but I would highly recommend starting off at lower points games. Start at 500, maybe 750 at most. Learn the basics of the game and your army, learn how things work on the board at a points value where the big things that are gonna one shot your army aren't gonna fit into lists. Don't stretch out your army just to fit a points value, wait until you have enough stuff to comfortably play at that points level before diving in (IE you're actually making choices about what to bring to the game, rather than trying to give units as many upgrades as possible to fill points. If you feel like you have to buy upgrades or extra models for the unit you normally wouldn't have taken just to fill points, you're playing too high and should play a smaller game size).

And finally, once again I will reiterate don't get discouraged. That's certainly not a great way to start your time in the hobby, but look at it this way; you've already experienced one of the worst things that can happen in this hobby (taking a fun/fluffy/casual list and going up against an apparent WAAC TFG list and getting stomped), so it's only uphill from here! Talk to some of the other players, try to avoid playing that particular guy again in the near future (or talk to him and figure out what happened), and focus on having fun and enjoying yourself. This is a game after all, everyone is there to have a good time, and part of having a good time is ensuring your opponent also has fun (for most players at least).

Hope this advice helped a bit. Sorry I can't give you more specific advice regarding the game, your list, or your opponent's list, I'm a Tau player and don't know the details of Nids and Necrons in 8th edition yet. Hope you can find some players to give you a better experience, and once again welcome to the hobby!

Don't be sad about it. Everyone loses, even more if they are beginners. I just lost two days ago agains't my 12 years old niece... I focused his poxwalkers for 3 turns. And when you focus the chaff, you just lose!

To be honest here, Tyranids are a really good army this edition. Necrons are fine too, but just as Imperial Guard, Tyranid have many really cheap and powerfull units, so in small point games, they are in an advantage.
Necrons in the other hand, for what I have read, are a little inflexible and are limited in their options to fight agains't big and armoured enemies, besides spamming gauss.
I expect others Necron players to give you better advice!

For hordes with a meh save (5+), Tesla Immortals are king so I would recommend getting a couple of boxes of those first to make a full 10 man squad. That should help against the large numbers that 'Nids can pump out. For high wound stuff your Stalker is find with either the Twin Heavy Gauss Cannon, or the Heat Ray, though I tend to favor the Gauss Cannon a little more. A Doomsday Ark would also be good against those High wound models, as well.

Keep in mind your Qauntam Shielding. It's a double edge sword, so you can't entirely rely on it. High volume, small damage weapons is the bane of it but you can shrug high damage shots with relativ ease. Sounds like your opponent knew what he was doing using the 12 shot Nid, unfortunately. It sounds like your opponent not only brought a more optimized list, but knew how to counter Necrons.

Don't get discouraged, though! Necrons are not as bad as you think. But it will take time, smaller games and more forgiving opponents to get a grasp of things. I'd do research into each unit, look at the Necron tactics thread in the Tactics forum and start watching 8th edition battle reports that involve Necrons. In fact I lost a game just tonight against Ynnari Eldar. Now that was pretty brutal with their soul burst. But I am already thinking of things to try next time against them, what I might need to use or how to adapt my tactics. (My biggest mistake in that game was not turtling in some terrain with my warriors, and deciding to not bring a Doomsday Ark because he was running 4 Wave Serpents.)

Hey! Welcome to 40k! It's actually a great game, don't let this first loss get you down too much as frustrating as it was. A quick note first, I play Tau. I'm extremely unfamiliar with the details of Necrons in the 8th Edition. I knew all their rules in 7th so I understand what their theme/general army strategy is. However, I don't know what they have that is currently "strong" or "weak". So sadly I can't give you specific details on your army list. I'd recommend posting here for better analysis on that.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/715040.page

That being said a few things you said jumped out at me, for starters...

I was familiar with as I used to play Magic The Gathering at that store.

I'll try to phrase this in terms of Magic The Gathering, since I assume you're much more familiar with it.

Now for the bad part. I'm not impressed at all by balance in this game... My army felt massively out-classed unit for unit and if we added things up, I feel like I had maybe 15 more models than him on the table in total. I'm pretty sure he had more wounds than me overall, and much higher toughness and saves and damage potential. It also was very disheartening that most of the times I got hit, I wasn't even allowed an armor save and had to resort to depending on my Cryptek's 5+ invulnerable aura.

Assume you had just played your opponent in a game of magic the gathering. You just have what is likely the equivalent of a pre-con starter deck. It has a handful of rather mediocre rares and a fair amount of playable commons and uncommons. He has his standard deck he takes to FNM every weekend. Obviously, your pre-con starter deck is going to get smashed. His deck is a well thought out murder machine. You're going to be at a massive disadvantage. Maybe if you were extremely knowledgeable at the game and he'd never played magic before you could beat him with your pre-con, but that wasn't the case here and the difference in power showed.

You just played a game with an extremely unoptimized list (and likely made a bunch of errors) against someone with a decently optimized list (who likely made very few errors).

I'm kind of discouraged, because I can't think of anything else I could have done to fight back. The whole drive home, I was going over it in my mind and couldn't help but come to the conclusion that my army couldn't win that fight.

I can't say for sure one way or another if this is a true statement, but list-building in Warhammer 40k is just as important as list building is in Magic the Gathering. If I bring an army of only anti-infantry guns and my opponent brings an army of only tanks... well that's going to end poorly for me. Warhammer 40k is very similar to EDH/commander in balance. At the truly most cut-throat level, the game's balance isn't really stellar (at least in 7th edition it wasn't). It's not unplayable (and Gamesworkshop is doing their best to improve it), but its not as good as say Chess. The importance of talking with your opponent before a game is paramount to both parties having a good game. Similar to EDH, if I bring my cut-throat infinite storm deck versus my friends beserker tribal. It's really not going to be a thrilling time. That doesn't mean that EDH isn't fun (I love me some EDH) it just means both parties have to be pretty clear with what kind of guns they're bringing to the fight before it happens or someone is going to get blown out of the water.

 SneakyTheDragon wrote:

I feel like I only had two units that could possibly deal with his big stuff, and that was my Barge and Stalker. The Barge died in one go, and the Stalker doing 2 shots for D6 damage each had no hope of stopping any of his big stuff. My army felt massively out-classed unit for unit and if we added things up, I feel like I had maybe 15 more models than him on the table in total. I'm pretty sure he had more wounds than me overall, and much higher toughness and saves and damage potential. It also was very disheartening that most of the times I got hit, I wasn't even allowed an armor save and had to resort to depending on my Cryptek's 5+ invulnerable aura.

I'm kind of discouraged, because I can't think of anything else I could have done to fight back. The whole drive home, I was going over it in my mind and couldn't help but come to the conclusion that my army couldn't win that fight.

As others have said, don't get discouraged. This is your first game.

As you went over in your head, there is a very real chance than you had absolutely no way to win that match. The fact of the matter is that vs an optimized list, there is very little a suboptimal army can do. Simple geometry.

Yes, Tyranids have a lot of tricks up their sleeve, but this is the same for every army. You just need to figure out the ins and outs of the army that you chose.

Given that this is probably a list-side issue, and (probably) not a player-side issue, I'd focus on improving your armylist. Read the various necron threads on this forum, figure out the different tips and tricks of your army, and optimize. Build the meanest list you possibly can (that fits in the points range,) and then go try it out. I think you'll have a very different experience.

In 40k if you win your first match it means your opponent was being nice.

I played my first 40k game ever last week pitting my 1000p of IG vs Space Wolves.
I cant recap exactly what was on the table or why it went the way it did but i got completely smashed!

Im not discouraged though, it was still fun and Im sure I lost mainly due to me playing badly!

Next time im sure ill do a little better

You should play against other beginner - it's super fun, trust me. Beginner vs beginner games are the best.

Or against someone who is interested in actually teaching you instead of just winning a game.

Just like to add that playing in the campaign probably also made a difference, as because game score points for either imperium or chaos they feel like they matter just a bit more than your average pick up game would.

This means that even grown ups who should know better will indulge in "seal clubbing". A chat afterwards with your opponent would probably gain you some pointers on any obvious mistake but it was probably more of a list problem.

One possible way to help you enjoy it might be to pair up with a more experienced player and play some doubles matches, even if you lose double matches are often more fun as you have someone to commiserate with. You might even find that the three side of the campaign have organised ish teams in the shop which will give you a natural bunch of people to get involved with.

40k is like golf in that you get better with practise and also like golf in that you can have a terrible round/ game but during it make one or two good shots / have something cool or cinematic happen, focus on those to keep your enjoyment up!

I dont play necrons, but my friend does. Here are some things i remember from our match. Dont use 5 model units of necron warriors. When the unit is wiped from the table you cannot reanimate models from it. Its harder to wipe out a 10 model unit. Keep your cryptek close, he gives +1 to reanimate to other units. Dont forget you have quantum shielding against ranged attacks. If a weapon does 2 wounds and you roll a 1 the damage is ignored. There is also a vehicle (i think) which lets you reroll failed reanimation rolls, but i dont remember which one. Try to get close, within 12", because you have rapid fire weapons, doubling the amount of shots. Your necron warriors have -1 AP on their guns.

As others said take big blobs of warriors with a cryptek for 5+ invulnerable save and 4+ resurrection.

Immortals with Tesla are good against hordes so worth a look.

But the big thing this edition is auras so look into special characters and how they buff your units.

And don't play any wargame expecting to win the first few games you need to learn your playstyle , keep at it.

Might be interesting for you.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/732979.page#9496148
There's a game vs a nid list in there and some other games.

Annihilation Barges, Wraiths and Scarabs are not the best units for their points cost I find.

So for for 1k I use:
Overlord with Warcythe
Cryptek

10 Warriors
10 Warriors
10 Immortals
10 Lychguard with Shields and Swords

6 command points

I've not lost with it yet but that is not to say its in anyway the best list you could take.


In your armies particular case you have answered your own question. Next time keep the Barge out of range of the shooty bug (at least until you get to shoot first) and don't charge the monsters with your Wraiths and Scarabs.

Likewise, this might just be a bad scenario for you as the defender. Try some fairer scenarios like the Maelstrom or Eternal War missions.

There are only two types of Armies in 40k

Those that are Tyranid

and those that are FOOD FOR TYRANIDS!!!

My bit of advice is what you already learned the hard way: Don't let us get too close

There are other game types as well, so if the scenario calls for capturing an objective for example, try to win the war and go for the objective so even if you do lose the battle you can still say you claimed victory before you got eaten.

SneakyTheDragon wrote:I managed to get enough models to just barely reach the 1,000 point minimum requirement for the Fate of Konor thing. This week is 1,000, next week is 1,250, etc. Not sure I'll be able to participate beyond this week, but we'll have to see.

What I brought to the game:

Overlord with Res Orb and Warscythe
Cryptek
11 Warriors
10 Warriors
1 Annihilation Barge with the big gun
1 Triarch Stalker
3 Scarabs
3 Wraiths

I achieved 998 points by throwing all of my models (Except for 1 warrior) on the table.

It is always hard when you only barely have enough models to reach the point value, especially if you didn't specifically build the list to be optimized

I don't know what my opponent's units were called, he was playing Tyranids. This is a picture of his stuff from after the game http://i.imgur.com/SIqj4nS.jpg and doesn't show a group of about 15-18 smaller infantry dudes. His Warlord, which had a long, narrow base and was a psyker, is the model just to the left of the really big one in front.

Basically his entire army was 15 or so small guys who he said got 4 attacks each because there was a large number of them. They also could hit for moral wounds, meaning I had no saves. Backing up the 15 or so guys were 3 guys sitting back in a fort sniping with big guns. A huge cannon-faced bug that fired 12 shots at a time for 2 damage each. A thing that popped out of the ground with 12 wounds. Two big bugs that he said were close combat monsters.

He also got an extra command point because he brought 3 Heavy Support.

So based on what I see your opponents list was

Brood Lord
2 Carifexes (close combat monsters)
3 Warriors (guys in the bunker)
A Mawloc(burrowing thing)
An Exocrene (shooty big bug)
15-18 Genestealers

Now from your breakdown here your opponent was either cheating or you were not remembering things correctly. Genestealers don't do mortal wounds...ever, what they do is that if he rolls a 6 to wound they are AP -4. Which against most things amounts to the same thing, but it is an important distinction if you have an invulnerable save or a 2+ save. Most of the time they are just AP -1, so most of the time you will get saves. They do have 4 attacks as long as at least 10 remain. Also the warriors can only take 1 big gun everything else only has 18" range.

So things didn't go well. We were doing the Fate of Konor scenario and I was the defender, so he got to go first. The very first thing he did was kill my Barge with the guy that shoots 12 times. He fired off a salvo for 7 wounds.. which turned out to be 14 wounds because it does 2 damage each per hit with no armor save for me.

This seems like a positioning issue, as his gun only has 36" range so you should deploy either out of LOS, or out of range if you can.

He then begins charging across the table at me and using psyker powers to knock off my models here and there. I massed my Warriors near the center with the Cryptek and Overlord, and tried to shoot the incoming group of smaller guys, killing a couple.

I sent my Scarabs and Wraiths up one side to engage his two big melee specialists. That turned out to be a mistake, all it did was cause me to lose those models.

On his next turn, the really big bug pops up beside my guys, does a bunch of wounds to them and he says "Don't worry, it can't assault you this turn." I ask how many wounds it has.. he says 12. Don't worry huh?

On my turn, I try to focus down the really big guy who is ontop of me now, and just manage to put some wounds on it. He proceeds to kill more of my Wraiths as he says his attacks do 3 damage each.. that's enough to 1 shot each Wraith.

You probably should have focused on his little guys with your warriors, and ignored the big 12 wound guy, but made it so that he could only charge 1 unit. Sending Wraiths against his CC big guys is a mistake, I would have used them as a screen for your shooting units instead.

His turn, he charges into me with the big swarm of 11 or so little guys, plus his warlord, plus the huge 12 wound model. He gathers 30+ dice for his attacks versus my group of 6 warriors (Who were getting hit by psyker powers for mortal wounds the whole game) and wipes them out. He gets another handful of 10+ dice for my remaining group of 8 or so warriors and I decided to throw in the towel. There was no possible way to do anything and being totally honest, I wasn't having fun at that point.

Yup genestealers will murder warriors, you need to be sure that they cannot multi-charge your units, using your wraiths/scarabs as a screen against them while backing up the warriors would be the best bet.

So my thoughts on the whole thing. It was fun setting up my models and seeing my whole collection laid out, even though they're just primer black for the most part. It was also fun building a list and trying to think of how to use each of my units. (Putting the Barge and Stalker on each flank with infantry in the center) It was also cool meeting some people I don't know, and seeing some faces I was familiar with as I used to play Magic The Gathering at that store.

Now for the bad part. I'm not impressed at all by balance in this game. Maybe I'm a terrible general, but it really felt like there was just no way for me to possibly win that game. Everything in his army seemed to have "it's a special rule" that let him do something extra or made his units incredibly good. He had so many rerolls from abilities, and extra distance on movements.. and assaulting me in melee after moving 8 inches, advancing another 4 then charging.

I feel like I only had two units that could possibly deal with his big stuff, and that was my Barge and Stalker. The Barge died in one go, and the Stalker doing 2 shots for D6 damage each had no hope of stopping any of his big stuff. My army felt massively out-classed unit for unit and if we added things up, I feel like I had maybe 15 more models than him on the table in total. I'm pretty sure he had more wounds than me overall, and much higher toughness and saves and damage potential. It also was very disheartening that most of the times I got hit, I wasn't even allowed an armor save and had to resort to depending on my Cryptek's 5+ invulnerable aura.

I'm kind of discouraged, because I can't think of anything else I could have done to fight back. The whole drive home, I was going over it in my mind and couldn't help but come to the conclusion that my army couldn't win that fight.

I posted in the facebook group that I'd like to try again sometime next week, but expressed that I'm still a beginner with a beginner army. Hopefully someone other than a Tyranids player will want to play. I can't imagine ever beating that army.

I'm not sure you would have won, given his army is fairly tuned, and yours is not, but some difference in choices could have made the game a bit closer.

So many replies! I wish I could individually reply to everyone, but thank you all so much for your advice and encouragement. I spoke with someone who was at the event and they said there was pretty much no way for me to win that game short of the opponent rolling nothing but 1s for the entire time. It helps a little to know that (while I'm sure I made mistakes) it isn't necessarily just me being a horrible general.

I'm going to try to arrange a game with someone else next week and see how that goes. I haven't given up!

What i found to be immensely helpful when i was first starting, was watching MiniWarGaming battle reports on youtube.

Find one where they play Tyranids. Matt - the guy who runs it - plays them a lot, and he's usually pretty good in his games.

And, try to get a few games in against a few different people with your same army. It's helpful to play a list of yours over, and over again, before growing it. That way you will better understand your shortcomings.

I see a lot of "what should i buy next," but in reality, if you're asking that question, you probably haven't played enough yet. The real question should be, "I'm having trouble dealing with X, what do you recommend?" That's the best way - in my opinion - to grow an army.

But i wouldn't give up. Losses happen. Sometimes you can do everything right and just roll really, really bad.

Not much to add, except think about playing Kill Team...that lets you use a small number of "dudes" and really get a feel for how to play, Then go for a bigger game, with bigger dudes.

 SneakyTheDragon wrote:
I managed to get enough models to just barely reach the 1,000 point minimum requirement for the Fate of Konor thing. This week is 1,000, next week is 1,250, etc. Not sure I'll be able to participate beyond this week, but we'll have to see.

What I brought to the game:

Overlord with Res Orb and Warscythe
Cryptek
11 Warriors
10 Warriors
1 Annihilation Barge with the big gun
1 Triarch Stalker
3 Scarabs
3 Wraiths

I achieved 998 points by throwing all of my models (Except for 1 warrior) on the table.

Welcome to 40K! I've played necrons for a while, though I haven't touched them since early 5th. I'll see if I can point anything out.

First, warriors should never be run in min-size squads. I realize you're doing it here because you literally don't have enough models to run anything else, but keep that in mind.

More models makes it less likely that your opponent can gun down the entire squad and prevent your resurrection protocol rolls.

Also, you should think about redundency. I'm seeing a lot of minimum size units. Minimum scarabs for one unit. Minimum wraiths for one unit. Only one Annihilation Barge. Only one Stalker. Pick something you like that you wouldn't mind making into a core part of your force, and put down a second one. I used to run a "Wraith Wing" back in 4th ed. 6 Wraiths + a destroyer lord (because they had the same movement speed, and wraiths were only 1-3 per unit back then) and they were particularly effective. The list you have right now is a good "taste test" list. Figure out your favorite, and get more of it.

Though, I will say that I'm not seeing a lot of anti-vehicle fire in your list beyond the stalker (assuming it's using the base gun). That will be a problem going forward. I'd suggest looking into some big guns from various places in the list as you expand your force.

 SneakyTheDragon wrote:

I don't know what my opponent's units were called, he was playing Tyranids. This is a picture of his stuff from after the game http://i.imgur.com/SIqj4nS.jpg and doesn't show a group of about 15-18 smaller infantry dudes. His Warlord, which had a long, narrow base and was a psyker, is the model just to the left of the really big one in front.

Basically his entire army was 15 or so small guys who he said got 4 attacks each because there was a large number of them. They also could hit for moral wounds, meaning I had no saves. Backing up the 15 or so guys were 3 guys sitting back in a fort sniping with big guns. A huge cannon-faced bug that fired 12 shots at a time for 2 damage each. A thing that popped out of the ground with 12 wounds. Two big bugs that he said were close combat monsters.

Yeah. Those small dudes were Genestealers. They're real nasty and do exactly what he said they do (I'm not sure about mortal wounds. I don't have my index in front of me). For necrons, they're the unit to beat as far as nids go.

 SneakyTheDragon wrote:


He also got an extra command point because he brought 3 Heavy Support.

And a second HQ, I hope. If he didn't have a second HQ, he was seal clubbing and you should think about not playing with him again. A 3-heavy support detachment is a spearhead(?) and it requires 3 heavy support AND an HQ.

 SneakyTheDragon wrote:


So things didn't go well. We were doing the Fate of Konor scenario and I was the defender, so he got to go first. The very first thing he did was kill my Barge with the guy that shoots 12 times. He fired off a salvo for 7 wounds.. which turned out to be 14 wounds because it does 2 damage each per hit with no armor save for me.

He then begins charging across the table at me and using psyker powers to knock off my models here and there. I massed my Warriors near the center with the Cryptek and Overlord, and tried to shoot the incoming group of smaller guys, killing a couple.

I sent my Scarabs and Wraiths up one side to engage his two big melee specialists. That turned out to be a mistake, all it did was cause me to lose those models.

On his next turn, the really big bug pops up beside my guys, does a bunch of wounds to them and he says "Don't worry, it can't assault you this turn." I ask how many wounds it has.. he says 12. Don't worry huh?

Yup. That's how nids roll. On the bright side, Necrons have units that can eat those for lunch. You just don't have any of them.
Though, it sounds like you got unlucky with the wraiths. They have 3+ invuln saves which makes them a pain in the for big guys like that to kill. Did you take your invuln saves, armor saves that got punched through because of MC AP, or just roll real badly against multi-damage attacks? Because you should have been taking a bunch of 3+ invuln saves. If you did anything but roll badly and fail invuls, your opponent was being a douche and you shouldn't play him again. If he can optimize a list like it sounds like he did, he should know the basics of every army in the game. Including Necrons.

 SneakyTheDragon wrote:


On my turn, I try to focus down the really big guy who is ontop of me now, and just manage to put some wounds on it. He proceeds to kill more of my Wraiths as he says his attacks do 3 damage each.. that's enough to 1 shot each Wraith.

Yup it is. Life sucks. Wear a helmet.

Necrons have nasty stuff too. You just did't bring any of it. Your list is real basic. Like really basic. You don't really have any of the fun stuff in it.

C'Tan Shards (either a basic one in HS or a named shard in the Elite section)
Doomsday Cannons
Death Shroud
Lychguard with Warscythes
Praetorians
Wraiths with a Transdimensional Beamer in this edition is a neat option that can help kill big things

Destroyers. Get you some destroyers. A destroyer squad would have wrecked his monstrous creatures, if used correctly. They're particularly fun with a command barge because who doesn't like hitting on 2+?

If you like running warriors, you should think about running a ghost ark for rerolling a unit's RP every turn. They're also another 10 gauss flayers on the table AND a transport you can still make WBB rolls in if circumstances permit it and you don't go above 10 models. Just do some of the math in your head. Take a squad of 20 warriors in 3" of a cryptek. They RP on a 4+ and the ghost ark lets them make two rolls per model per turn. If your opponent doesn't wipe the squad out completely, you'll get back 3/4ths of your losses will get back up.

Always save 2 command points to auto-pass that moral check with those guys. It will make your opponents rage.

 SneakyTheDragon wrote:


His turn, he charges into me with the big swarm of 11 or so little guys, plus his warlord, plus the huge 12 wound model. He gathers 30+ dice for his attacks versus my group of 6 warriors (Who were getting hit by psyker powers for mortal wounds the whole game) and wipes them out. He gets another handful of 10+ dice for my remaining group of 8 or so warriors and I decided to throw in the towel. There was no possible way to do anything and being totally honest, I wasn't having fun at that point.

So my thoughts on the whole thing. It was fun setting up my models and seeing my whole collection laid out, even though they're just primer black for the most part. It was also fun building a list and trying to think of how to use each of my units. (Putting the Barge and Stalker on each flank with infantry in the center) It was also cool meeting some people I don't know, and seeing some faces I was familiar with as I used to play Magic The Gathering at that store.

Now for the bad part. I'm not impressed at all by balance in this game. Maybe I'm a terrible general, but it really felt like there was just no way for me to possibly win that game. Everything in his army seemed to have "it's a special rule" that let him do something extra or made his units incredibly good. He had so many rerolls from abilities, and extra distance on movements.. and assaulting me in melee after moving 8 inches, advancing another 4 then charging.

I feel like I only had two units that could possibly deal with his big stuff, and that was my Barge and Stalker. The Barge died in one go, and the Stalker doing 2 shots for D6 damage each had no hope of stopping any of his big stuff. My army felt massively out-classed unit for unit and if we added things up, I feel like I had maybe 15 more models than him on the table in total. I'm pretty sure he had more wounds than me overall, and much higher toughness and saves and damage potential. It also was very disheartening that most of the times I got hit, I wasn't even allowed an armor save and had to resort to depending on my Cryptek's 5+ invulnerable aura.

I'm kind of discouraged, because I can't think of anything else I could have done to fight back. The whole drive home, I was going over it in my mind and couldn't help but come to the conclusion that my army couldn't win that fight.

I posted in the facebook group that I'd like to try again sometime next week, but expressed that I'm still a beginner with a beginner army. Hopefully someone other than a Tyranids player will want to play. I can't imagine ever beating that army.

The problem is that you're a beginner, while he's got a well tuned army that he's experienced with. I'm also not so sure you were using all of YOUR rules correctly and I'm not seeing any mention of Ressurection Protocol rolls on anyone, invuln saves on the Wraiths, or quantum shield rolls on your vehicles. Also, you've got a good list for taking down infantry, and nothing able to handle big monsters or vehicles besides an Annihilation Barge with a "big gun" (hint: It's gun isn't that big. The doomsday Ark has a much bigger gun on it).

You're going to get pwnt until you figure out what's going on. Just like if you brought an un-modified starter deck to FNM. Keep trying

For the future, look at getting some Immortals. That will let you pack all 20 warriors into one squad to maximize their RP rolls and the effects of your overlord's My Will Be Done (which makes them every bit as scary as your opponent's genestealers. 40 shots when up close, hitting on 2's with -1 AP? Don't underestimate the amount of damage that can do)

Additionally, if you decide to pack those immortals with Tesla instead of gauss, your Overlord's MWBD will let them get their extra hits on a 5+ instead of a 6 (because MWBD gives +1 to hit which will turn any roll of 5 into a 6, which triggers the ability).

I'm assuming you were taking advantage of your stalker's targeting system ability and focusing fire with your warriors. It sounds like you kept the heat ray which is, IMO, the worst of its gun options. Since I use my stalker to buff my infantry, I pack a particle caster on it for a profile that better matches the warrior and immortal weapon profiles it will be concentrating fire with. Also, don't forget that your Overlord's MWBD and the stalker's targeting system buffs stack, so if you're shooting with warriors or immortals you'll be hitting on 2's, and re-rolling any 1's that pop up. So most of your stuff should hit, and every 1 you roll will be another chance to score another 5 or 6 in the case of tesla immortals.

I'm not a fan of the annilihation barge, but that's pure personal preference. I've seen people get lots of work done with them. They're also fairly cheap, and pack quantum shields which makes them difficult for AV fire to kill except the very situation that happened to you. I do have an issue with his gunbeast dealing 2 damage per shot though but, again, I don't have my index in front of me at the moment. So I can't verify the damage off the top of my head.

If you don't plan on painting a ton more warriors, you can easily drop the scarabs as you get more models. They're okay tarpits, and their ability to wound anything on a 5+ can do absolutely shocking things (especially if your opponent is using any fortifications since they'll hit automatically), but just 3 of them isn't going to really get any work done.

If you plan on getting more wraiths, I would suggest getting a destroyer lord to accompany them. And, IIRC, they pair very, very well with Flayed Ones. I have to re-read the necron index though. I don't have it memorized (I know...shame on me).

Finally, I cannot recommend C'Tan shards enough.They're the necron equivilent of Psykers, only they're a lot more mean. A nightbringer shard will take a carnifex in CC and wreck it with little effort. A deceiver shard will let you deepstrike d6 units on turn 1 AFTER the game has started and the units have already been placed on the board. And normal shards are simply walking beatsticks with neat "magic" that can't be counterspelled by enemy psykers (and doesn't fail to cast, or hurt you if you roll poorly).

Also, if you run into a lot of trouble with enemy psykers, think about running a Tomb Spyder. Not only can they repair damage necron vehicles, they can counter enemy psychic powers, and poop out scarabs for free (as in you don't need to pay points for the scarabs they create). It's the closest thing 40K gets to "card advantage".

I see some necron ranged units that do not like to get into close combat, especialy with nids.

Aagainst nids always fall back and shoot. Nids are not that good at shooting.

Kill the mawlock or ignore it. It is not good in CC, it is just a big pile of wounds.

Mawlocks and carnifexes are very effecient big models for cheap cost, not the best, but they can overwhelm you.

It also sounds like you ran into genestealers. One of the best and most iconic close combat units in the game. Try to kill them before they get nto cc.