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Hi everyone, I hope you guys can help me with two questions:

1) Is there are role that doesn`t allow disembarking from a flyer? In detail: does for example a stormraven have to switch to a Hover Jet before disembarking?

2) A Stormsurge declares before shooting to shoot at target nr. 1 with cluster rockets an two of his four destroyer missles and at target nr. 2 with the rest.
He first roll for the cluster rockets an these already destroy target nr. 1. Are the two declared rockets lost or can they be shot at another target in the next shooting phase?

Thanks for helping us out.

1) There are no general rules preventing you from disembarking from flying transports. Any such restrictions will be in the rules for the specific units. A Stormraven has no such restrictions listed in its rules, so nothing forces you to hover to disembark.

2) They're lost. You declare which weapons are shooting at which units before firing any of them. A weapon can only fire at the unit you declare as the target for it. You can't change the target of a weapon after the fact, even if its target is already dead.

The question is, do you actually have to fire all weapons ? It doesnt matter for most weapons, because their ammo is infinite. But some are one shot only. If i declare to shoot weapon A and B from my tank at target X, and destroy target X with weapon A, do i actually have to fire weapon B (which is one shot only) ?

p5freak
IMO you roll the dices one weapon after another to make it easier, but in fact they are fired simultaniously

medicinal carrots
thanks, that were my thoughts too.

p5freak wrote:
The question is, do you actually have to fire all weapons ? It doesnt matter for most weapons, because their ammo is infinite. But some are one shot only. If i declare to shoot weapon A and B from my tank at target X, and destroy target X with weapon A, do i actually have to fire weapon B (which is one shot only) ?

You are not forced to shoot all your weapons. All you need to do is declare before firing anything what weapons will fire. I am wrong and dumb, see below.

Actually, you are.

You are given a choice between all of a model's weapons at a single target, or all of the model's weapons at various multiple targets. A unit of multiple models, by the ambiguous wording, may be forced to have each model fire at a single target no matter how many ranged weapons the model hash or it may mean that each model can choose to fire all of its weapons in the above choices.

You do not have permission to not fire any given weapon on any given model outside of actually not being able to fire that weapon at any targets(lack of range).

That is a strict RAW that is not likely to be HIWPI(or anyone else really): 1-shot weapons should not be forced into an unfavorable alpha strike just because the model carrying then is confronted by a less desirable target and there are no proper targets in range/los.

What? So are you saying this applies to any target? Perhaps I have a tank with a Hunter-Killer missile... you're saying I have to fire all of it's weapons, and lose that HK, against the first target it shoots at essentially? This can't be right..

HIWPI: if you declare the 1 use only weapon, you're considered to have used it, even if the target dies before you get to roll for that weapon.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

You do not have permission to not fire any given weapon on any given model outside of actually not being able to fire that weapon at any targets(lack of range).

Where does it say that i must fire all weapons that my unit has ??

p5freak wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

You do not have permission to not fire any given weapon on any given model outside of actually not being able to fire that weapon at any targets(lack of range).

Where does it say that i must fire all weapons that my unit has ??

3. Shooting Phase, Subsection 3. Choose Ranged Weapon, Page 179

The weapons a model has are listed on its datasheet. If a model has several weapons, it can shoot all of them at the same target, or it can shoot each at a different enemy unit.

You are given the choice of shooting all your weapons at a single target, or firing each at a different target. You are NOT given the choice to fire only some of your weapons.

RAW, it does appear you have to fire all weapons.

However, I've never seen anyone play it like that. I think it needs some clarity, but I suspect the idea that you are compelled to fire your weapons is just outside the basic idea of the game.

There are certainly times when you are compelled to make certain moves (i.e. units that must move toward enemies, etc.), but a normal unit has never been compelled to fire a weapon, and I doubt that was RAI.

Its true. The rules for the shooting phase say :

1. Choose Unit to Shoot With

Unless otherwise stated, each model in
the unit attacks with all of the ranged
weapons it is armed with.

So, if you have a vehicle with a heavy bolter and four one shot only rockets, you have to shoot all its weapons. You cannot save any of those one shot only rockets for later. Its all or nothing. I also dont know anyone playing it like this.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

p5freak wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

You do not have permission to not fire any given weapon on any given model outside of actually not being able to fire that weapon at any targets(lack of range).

Where does it say that i must fire all weapons that my unit has ??

3. Shooting Phase, Subsection 3. Choose Ranged Weapon, Page 179

The weapons a model has are listed on its datasheet. If a model has several weapons, it can shoot all of them at the same target, or it can shoot each at a different enemy unit.

You are given the choice of shooting all your weapons at a single target, or firing each at a different target. You are NOT given the choice to fire only some of your weapons.

the rule says you CAN, so you're not forced to shoot each weapon when you can.

terry wrote:
the rule says you CAN, so you're not forced to shoot each weapon when you can.

Can is not the same as May.

Can indicates the ability to do something, May indicates a choice.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

terry wrote:
the rule says you CAN, so you're not forced to shoot each weapon when you can.

Can is not the same as May.

Can indicates the ability to do something, May indicates a choice.

'Can' has a secondary meaning that is synonymous with 'May'. In this instance 'Can' is being used in this secondary meaning when it comes to choosing whether to fire with a unit or not, you can tell based on the last clause in the rule 'until all eligible units that you want to do so have done so.'

In this case, it doesn't change the wording meaning that once you have selected a unit to shoot with you must shoot all of its weapons, so whilst I agree with your interpretation, I disagree with the route by which you arrive at it.

The meaning of can is not the issue here. The rule is clear : "Unless otherwise stated, each model in the unit attacks with all of the ranged weapons it is armed with." One exception is infantry with pistols. They can fire pistol(s), or any other weapon(s). But not both.

This has been a RAW issue for vehicles, and some GMCs since at least 6th; but always almost completely ignored.

In the choose a ranged weapon step in 6th and 7th it allowed you to not shoot a chosen weapon with models as a whole. Thus vehicles that carried more than 1 "one shot" weapons technically had to fire all of them the first time the weapon was chosen unless their was another rule involved(usually on the weapon itself, but markerlights used to fire seekers and destroyers went a little different).

Cases in point:
An Iron clad dreadnaught choosing to fire its hk missiles; had to fire both.

Skyray choosing seekers had to fire all 6 if it was doing so without spending markerlights(snapfiring most if it moved).

Stormsurge had to fire all 4 destroyers.

Manticore storm eagle rockets were limited to 1/turn.

Flyers were limited to a couple missiles per turn in 6th.

So the rules forcing a model to fire all of its 1-shots in the same turn isn't really that new; and neither is the community completely ignoring those rules for tactical flexibility.

Graccus wrote:
Hi everyone, I hope you guys can help me with two questions:

1) Is there are role that doesn`t allow disembarking from a flyer? In detail: does for example a stormraven have to switch to a Hover Jet before disembarking?

2) A Stormsurge declares before shooting to shoot at target nr. 1 with cluster rockets an two of his four destroyer missles and at target nr. 2 with the rest.
He first roll for the cluster rockets an these already destroy target nr. 1. Are the two declared rockets lost or can they be shot at another target in the next shooting phase?

Thanks for helping us out.

While I'm not getting into the RAW of forcing people to fire their 1 shot weapons or not. IF you opponent has declared those weapons to be firing they are fired whether needed or not. That is because the attacks happen at the same time, and are only resolved separately. Example if I decide to fire a twin linked lascannon and a HK missle at a target and the Lascannon destroys the target then I still lose the HK missle as it was fired at the same time.

I can definitely agree with wagguy on that. The only thing to think about with this(and getting into more convoluted rules ambiguity) is weapons that "overheat" declared but then not needed when the time comes.

Scenario: you have a tac squad with a lascannon and a plasma gun, you are targeting a vehicle with 6 wounds left with both, supercharging your plasma to ensure whatever wounds are left after the lascannon are almost certainly going to be stripped by the plasma. You make the lascannon attack first, hit, wound, failed/negated save. Roll for damage; a lucky 6. Now you have to roll to hit because you are making the attack with the plasma gun and could kill your gunner but your target is gone.