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Hola amigos,

I'm currently wanting to do some light conversion work to my Imperial Guard troops. Now, the photo below is more or less how I want them to look:



However, would the addition of a non-GW lasgun make it not acceptable for tournament use? I'd like to add my own flavour to my troops, but want to use them for tournaments too.

Is there any sort of guide, or is it a case of emailing the organisers to check eligibility?

GW's official stance is that converting is 100% extra heresy and if you do it you'll never be permitted to play ever again and won't ever get rules for your models ever.

It depends on the event. GW sponsored events are for obvious reasons stricter about non-GW parts than independent ones.

Yeah, GW events are very much "no third party conversions". If in doubt, emailing them is best, but all the same, I'd err on the side of not.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Yeah, GW events are very much "no third party conversions". If in doubt, emailing them is best, but all the same, I'd err on the side of not.

'GW events' these days pretty much just means anything actually run at Warhammer World. And even then, I don't think they've ever imposed a blanket ban on 3rd party components... they just may choose to not photograph them.


For other tournaments, it's very much at the discretion of the tournament organiser, but as a general rule you're unlikely to run into any dramas so long as your models adequately represent what they are supposed to be, and aren't confusing for your opponent to understand what is what.

What if you make a model cast and do your own casting.

I have the Jes Goodwin Wave Serpents x6. I love the old 'iron' looking WS as opposed to the newer 'horseshoe' WS.

I always thought the Eldar wraith units and vehicles that looked like they were 'grown' by the BoneSingers organically rather than assembled in some factory fitted the look of an ancient race.

Would you permit those in your tournaments?>

 admironheart wrote:
What if you make a model cast and do your own casting.

Of a model that you have made yourself? That would depend on the tournament organiser.

Of a model that you have bought? That would be copyright infringement (and no, the US 'Fair Use' clause does not cover this situation... that's not a discussion that needs to be had here) and most TOs would be against it on principle, if they were aware of it.


You can also run into issues with tournaments when an old model is significantly different to its current incarnation. Some TOs will refuse to allow such models, and some will require you to have a current model on hand to 'sub in' to resolve LOS disputes as necessary. Although given that the old resin waveserpent is a fair bit taller and chunkier than the GW model, you probably wouldn't have too many issues there.

 insaniak wrote:

You can also run into issues with tournaments when an old model is significantly different to its current incarnation. Some TOs will refuse to allow such models, and some will require you to have a current model on hand to 'sub in' to resolve LOS disputes as necessary. Although given that the old resin waveserpent is a fair bit taller and chunkier than the GW model, you probably wouldn't have too many issues there.

I hope those cases are rare. The only thing i can think of that might seem reasonable are the new greater daemons, if anything, just because theyre giant compared to the older ones. But I've got some original Land Raiders Id hate to have kicked out of an event (presumably for being too awesome).

It used to be that models had to be made from a certain percentage of GW parts. Like 75% or 95%, something like that and that the other bits were meant to be scratchbuilt and not 3rd party. I don't know if that's changed, but most of my ork vehicles are about 50% GW parts and 50% random plastic bits. I've no idea if they're tournament legal.

 Warboss_Waaazag wrote:
It used to be that models had to be made from a certain percentage of GW parts. Like 75% or 95%, something like that and that the other bits were meant to be scratchbuilt and not 3rd party. I don't know if that's changed, but most of my ork vehicles are about 50% GW parts and 50% random plastic bits. I've no idea if they're tournament legal.

They aren't. As proven by the SM codex conversions are 100% illegal now. Stock Citadel Miniatures only.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Warboss_Waaazag wrote:
It used to be that models had to be made from a certain percentage of GW parts. Like 75% or 95%, something like that and that the other bits were meant to be scratchbuilt and not 3rd party. I don't know if that's changed, but most of my ork vehicles are about 50% GW parts and 50% random plastic bits. I've no idea if they're tournament legal.

They aren't. As proven by the SM codex conversions are 100% illegal now. Stock Citadel Miniatures only.

What exactly does the new space marine codex prove about no conversions ever? Everyone knew GW hated conversions with 3rd party bits for ages now. What did they do, put something along the lines of "using other subpar model lines and companies in combination with our minis is heresy." directly in the codex or something? It's not going to stop people from doing it of course, they're your property and you can do as you please.

To OP, it is going to vary heavily based on where you are playing and live. When in doubt, call the area you're wishing to play at and get an idea of what they allow. For the most part, the following rules apply, especially with IG

1. It looks like it's supposed to (aka a melta gun has a big heat barrel, a lasgun is a basic looking rifle, autocannons are heavy weapons with big bullets in a chunky magazine, etc.)
2. It's a cool conversion. A conversion that had a lot of heart and soul poured into it that looks good will be looked at much more favorably than gluing melta guns to dollar store army men
3. It must be painted. People do not take conversions well if they're just primed and not painted at all. Painted models shows off how cool the models are and gives credence to you putting in the work.

I have played in areas that didn't require GW models at all, I've played at some where you needed a certain amount of models in your army to be GW, or even places where any conversions at all were forbidden. I don't bother going to the last one because I would say over half my IG models are not GW models and heavily converted. However, any conversions I play are painted.

I often hear of a 50% or 75% rule, where that percentage of the model must be official GW parts. This can be almost impossible to prove unless you have a near encyclopedic knowledge of an army's entire line going back decades, and I've had people think official models in my army were 3rd party and yet hold up a 3rd party guardsman and claim it was an excellent FW model . With guard you would be amazed just how little the average person knows about what our infantry are supposed to look like. Don't go talking about how you used "Superior 3rd party bits over inferior GW bits" in the store and most people will never even notice.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
They aren't. As proven by the SM codex conversions are 100% illegal now. Stock Citadel Miniatures only.

It wasn't funny the first time. If you have nothing to contribute to the thread, please retain from posting in it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Warboss_Waaazag wrote:
...and that the other bits were meant to be scratchbuilt and not 3rd party

That was never a thing, unless it was a strictly regional rule where you were playing. Some stores had rules against 3rd party bits, but I never heard of a tournament not allowing them, unless they are being run in said stores.

 insaniak wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
They aren't. As proven by the SM codex conversions are 100% illegal now. Stock Citadel Miniatures only.

It wasn't funny the first time. If you have nothing to contribute to the thread, please retain from posting in it.

I am 100% sincere.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
They aren't. As proven by the SM codex conversions are 100% illegal now. Stock Citadel Miniatures only.

It wasn't funny the first time. If you have nothing to contribute to the thread, please retain from posting in it.

I am 100% sincere.

Where is this written in the codex, you're the first person I've heard of talking about this.

Because last I checked scratch built has always been allowed, especially considering many of GW's official publications even have pictures of people greensculpting things or making vehicles from plasticard for conversions. A picture or at least a page number would be nice.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
They aren't. As proven by the SM codex conversions are 100% illegal now. Stock Citadel Miniatures only.

It wasn't funny the first time. If you have nothing to contribute to the thread, please retain from posting in it.

I am 100% sincere.

The you are 100% wrong, as evidenced by the recent white dwarf leaks showing how to convert a Grey Knight Grand Master Dreadknight which will be an option without a model in the new codex.

And I would counter that with the removal of the ability to take a Kor’sarro Khan, a White Scars Captain, a chapter that is almost exclusively bike mounted, on a bike, because they don't provide a model.

It's all up to the TO. As far as GW tourneys go I thought at least 70% of the model had to be GW parts. This was years ago and may have changed. Best bet would be to contact the tourney you are playing in to verify.

The general "rules" seem to be essentially:

-At a GW store or GW run event = GW only.
-The model should look like the unit it's representing (i.e. no My Little Pony armies)
-The model should be the same size and use the same base as what it's representing.
-The model should be identifiable as far as wargear goes.

Essentially no "these green plastic army men with M16s are actually my IG fellas w/ plasma guns..."

 BaconCatBug wrote:
And I would counter that with the removal of the ability to take a Kor’sarro Khan, a White Scars Captain, a chapter that is almost exclusively bike mounted, on a bike, because they don't provide a model.

Bolded for emphasis - that's not true. The White Scars may be about rapid mobility, but that doesn't mean they're all on bikes. Kor'sarro Khan is the captain of a battle company, so if he needs to move fast, he'll be in a razorback with the rest of his command squad. IIRC, Captains and Librarians on Bikes are still unit options, and they've never made models for those; only Chaplains, and that model is discontinued.

In any case, you're arguing a different point from the OP. He's not talking about concerting up a unit that doesn't exist, he's talking about making his ordinary Imperial Guard squads (and presumably officers, command squads, etc) - something that is in the Index - look a little different.

The rules pack for the upcoming Kronor Kill Team event at Warhammer World does say all models need to be exclusively GW parts. Probably because it's easier to judge than a percentage (by mass? volume? part count?). However, other events are free to do what they want - run a 40k tournament where Citadel miniatures are banned, if they like.

 insaniak wrote:

 Warboss_Waaazag wrote:
...and that the other bits were meant to be scratchbuilt and not 3rd party

That was never a thing, unless it was a strictly regional rule where you were playing. Some stores had rules against 3rd party bits, but I never heard of a tournament not allowing them, unless they are being run in said stores.

That was a thing, in fact, at the GW store in Manhattan that I worked at for 5 years. And the rule extended to official GW events at the time.

I have a ton of converted models, including some with 3rd party bits, and I used them at Games Workshop Swansea now and again.

I would make your army look how you wanted, personally. It's better to do that than be unhappy because of 'restrictions' that may not even fully apply.

Besides, there may be GW bits you're looking for. I've found that the Carbines from the Sicaran Infiltrators kit make excellent looking SMGs for Guardsmen models, for example.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
And I would counter that with the removal of the ability to take a Kor’sarro Khan, a White Scars Captain, a chapter that is almost exclusively bike mounted, on a bike, because they don't provide a model.

rThat doesn't prove anything. GW has been removing rules for units that don't have an official model since they released 7ed. That doesn't prove you can't convert models that still have rules

And you wonder why people think you're a troll

Thanks for all the input so far guys - it's been really interesting and helped my decision making! I'll probably never do 'official' GW events, so I guess I have a bit more leeway, but I'll ensure the weapons are clearly what they are intended, to avoid issues!

AndrewGPaul hit the nail on the head. I want to customize my guardsmen, not make up an entirely new unit. BaconCatBug, learn to English. Or stop trolling. Either is acceptable.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
And I would counter that with the removal of the ability to take a Kor’sarro Khan, a White Scars Captain, a chapter that is almost exclusively bike mounted, on a bike, because they don't provide a model.

Hmm, must've missed the part where they said you can longer use the indexes for these such models.

No wait, they actually said the exact opposite...

the answer to this is simple, as someone who's played in several tournaments with third party bits or minis: dont mention it, dont make a big deal about it and 99% of the time nobody will even notice. On the off chance they do? explain you wanted them to look "different" and they'll be okay with it.

 Freddy Kruger wrote:
Thanks for all the input so far guys - it's been really interesting and helped my decision making! I'll probably never do 'official' GW events, so I guess I have a bit more leeway, but I'll ensure the weapons are clearly what they are intended, to avoid issues!

Now, autoguns have exactly the same stats as lasguns, so you can give your guardsmen assault rifles instead of laser guns and still be WYSIWYG without changing any rules.

 supreme overlord wrote:
the answer to this is simple, as someone who's played in several tournaments with third party bits or minis: dont mention it, dont make a big deal about it and 99% of the time nobody will even notice. On the off chance they do? explain you wanted them to look "different" and they'll be okay with it.

Tournament, pressed for time and turns.
No ones gonna have time to examine how many 3rd party heads you added.