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Took my Salamanders out for the first time with the new codex rules last night.

By the end my opponent was quite annoyed by the constant re-rolling, and I was starting to feel guilty...

Hopefully once more codexes are out, more armies will have special snowflake rules and I won't feel so bad

 Slinky wrote:
Took my Salamanders out for the first time with the new codex rules last night.

By the end my opponent was quite annoyed by the constant re-rolling, and I was starting to feel guilty...

Hopefully once more codexes are out, more armies will have special snowflake rules and I won't feel so bad

Did you *read* the World Eaters tactic from this morning?

Salamanders are the least of anyone's worries.

 Slinky wrote:
Took my Salamanders out for the first time with the new codex rules last night.

By the end my opponent was quite annoyed by the constant re-rolling, and I was starting to feel guilty...

Hopefully once more codexes are out, more armies will have special snowflake rules and I won't feel so bad

You feel guilty about salamanders?! Their rule only lets you reroll 1 dice to hit and wound for a unit, why is this rated as insane? Have i missed a syngery or something?

 Brutallica wrote:

 Slinky wrote:
Took my Salamanders out for the first time with the new codex rules last night.

By the end my opponent was quite annoyed by the constant re-rolling, and I was starting to feel guilty...

Hopefully once more codexes are out, more armies will have special snowflake rules and I won't feel so bad

You feel guilty about salamanders?! Their rule only lets you reroll 1 dice to hit and wound for a unit, why is this rated as insane? Have i missed a syngery or something?

All those rerolls add up.

That's some important shiz, yeah no biggie for bolter fire by one extra missile or lascannon or power fish getting to hit/wound could make a big different vs a vehicle or character seeing another turn.

Personnly I've not been using my extra codex/chapter rules until other sides get something. Just seems a bit unfair. But to each there own.

 Brutallica wrote:

 Slinky wrote:
Took my Salamanders out for the first time with the new codex rules last night.

By the end my opponent was quite annoyed by the constant re-rolling, and I was starting to feel guilty...

Hopefully once more codexes are out, more armies will have special snowflake rules and I won't feel so bad

You feel guilty about salamanders?! Their rule only lets you reroll 1 dice to hit and wound for a unit, why is this rated as insane? Have i missed a syngery or something?

Did that crucial shot miss? Re roll.
Las Cannon roll a one? Re-roll.

Rerolls...without using CP are very good.

1 hit and 1 wound re-roll per unit per turn. That's 1 for the best heavy/special weapon in each squad and 1 for every character. That can easily be 12+ re-rolls per turn, not counting re-roll 1's or other re-roll buffs. The result over the course of an entire game (taking into account CP's to re-roll on top of this) is that Salamanders will hit and wound significantly more with their best weapons over every other faction out there. Dunno how you'd calculate the increased efficiency of Salamanders but I'd hazard a guess that their heavy/special weapon efficiency is somewhere in the region of 10-20% more effective than any other faction out there.

This edition is all about re-rolls. Over the course of many games your dice rolls average out to predictable odds of success. We calculate how much a weapon or unit is worth by mathhammering how much damage it can output per turn. However re-rolls of any kind skew these odds, because they lessen the effect of poor rolls, either eliminating them (a successful re-roll) or making them much less likely to occur. This pushes efficiency up and increases a unit's value. Every unit affected by Salamander tactics is now skewing the odds much further. they're just gonna succeed more often, and with more dice than anyone else. You'll notice this quickly in games vs Salamanders vs any other SM chapter.

Re-rolls don't necessarily seem powerful on paper but in reality they're extremely important when the edition is built around them as a core mechanic. They're on par with things like shoot or assault twice, or extra attacks or free mortal wounds.

And the thing with Salies is that their tactic isn't situational. It's always on, regardless of what you do. Every other tactic is situational and dependent on your strategy or your opponent doing something (except for IH which is probably the weakest of the lot). Salies just always get 2 extra re-rolls per affected unit. A good Salies player would limit the number of vehicles they take to leverage much more value out of their infantry and dreads instead.

It's a strong tactic. People think the RG get the best tactic but I say this is the best, by a long shot.

That is flat out an amazing tactic, but it's not broken. When we see Salamanders in the top 30 in a tournament we'll talk lol

Played my first game yesterday with the new codex. I brought a mostly bike list, with a few storm talons, land speeder, and Thunderfire cannon.

Before game I settled for raven Guard CT (my army is still being painted), and my opponent brought a Nurgle Daemons list with Typhus and Poxwalkers...

So my CT was absolutely useless for this game, BUT I didn't want to list tailor.

That being said, from now on I will definitely be using Sallys Traits in the future. It fits my MSU special weapon army, and its a Tactic that will always be useful, no matter the opponent.

don't feel bad. Your chapter tactic is your army wide special rule - of which practically all armies have except for INDEX MARINES.

For example. Harlequins essentially have the whitescars and ultramarines tactic +1 whilst having a constant white scars stratagem up that allows them to advance and charge. You have to put things in perspective here. Ynnari get Strength from death which allows units to shoot twice in a turn. Deathgard infantry get 5+ FNP. Index marines got nothing (reroll leaderships - LOL-that doesnt even count)

 Xenomancers wrote:
don't feel bad. Your chapter tactic is your army wide special rule - of which practically all armies have except for INDEX MARINES.

For example. Harlequins essentially have the whitescars and ultramarines tactic +1 whilst having a constant white scars stratagem up that allows them to advance and charge. You have to put things in perspective here. Ynnari get Strength from death which allows units to shoot twice in a turn. Deathgard infantry get 5+ FNP. Index marines got nothing (reroll leaderships - LOL-that doesnt even count)

Index marines have ATSKNF....

This is one of the reasons I'm not a fan of re-rolls in general. It completely undermines the purpose of the initial roll. I think it's a very poor choice for game design, but it has been the bread and butter of GW's 40K rules for a long time now.

Salamanders chapter tactics are a amazing! So many re-rolls! Holy crap. I used their tactics last night and a re-roll per unit on hits and another on wounds each time it shoots or fights? Amazing. It was like 15+ re-rolls each turn. More if units shot and charged that turn.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
don't feel bad. Your chapter tactic is your army wide special rule - of which practically all armies have except for INDEX MARINES.

For example. Harlequins essentially have the whitescars and ultramarines tactic +1 whilst having a constant white scars stratagem up that allows them to advance and charge. You have to put things in perspective here. Ynnari get Strength from death which allows units to shoot twice in a turn. Deathgard infantry get 5+ FNP. Index marines got nothing (reroll leaderships - LOL-that doesnt even count)

Index marines have ATSKNF....

Like I said that doesn't even count. It might as well be removed as a rule and replaced with something that actually does something. I can completely avoid taking leadership tests just by reducing squad size - which is a good idea anyways because it hands out more command points.