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I found out there seem to be 2 types of re-roll charge rolls abilities, so what is the difference between

1) "Can re-roll failed charge rolls"

vs.

2) "Can re-roll charge rolls "

To clarify this is not Command Point ability, this is unit/character/faction ability

darrekbaal wrote:
I found out there seem to be 2 types of re-roll charge rolls abilities, so what is the difference between

1) "Can re-roll failed charge rolls"

vs.

2) "Can re-roll charge rolls for units"

I mean just by reading your 2 examples it seems pretty clear, 1 would allow you only to re-roll failed charge rolls. The other would allow you to re-roll any of your charge rolls. I have not seen your number 2. As far as I can see, all the examples in the SM codex and Index, it's all failed charges. Where do you see the second iteration?

I had little argument with my friend few week ago on this ability "reroll charge rolls" because I play Chaos and that's what Icon of Khorne said. It's the first page in Chaos Space Marine index/codex

I asked a few other people and they say reroll charge roll tend to reroll ALL DICES since the whole charge fail. So I took it as what they said

Then I ran into Orc codex faction main ability called "reroll FAILED charge roll"

turn out there are two different abilities. 1) Reroll charge roll vs. 2) Reroll FAILED charge rolls

It short, does it this mean 1) Reroll charge roll is better since you get to pick which dice to reroll?

darrekbaal wrote:
I had little argument with my friend few week ago on this ability "reroll charge rolls" because I play Chaos and that's what mark of Khorne said. It's the first page in Chaos Space Marine codex

I asked a few other people and they say reroll charge roll tend to reroll ALL DICES since the whole charge fail. So I took it as what they said

Then I ran into Orc codex faction main ability called "reroll FAILED charge roll"

turn out there are two different abilities. 1) Reroll charge roll vs. 2) Reroll FAILED charge rolls

It short, does it this mean 1) Reroll charge roll is better since you get to pick which dice to reroll?

You do not get to pick which dice you re-roll. If your able to re-roll a charge roll, or re-roll a failed charge roll, you must re-roll both dice. There was even some clarification on re-rolling in the faq which would apply here. Now, you can always spend a CP to just re-roll a single charge roll dice but that's totally different, but often times the better option. If you roll a 5 or specially a 6, your better off just spending the CP to re-roll the low dice.

Having said all that, Being able to re-roll ANY charge roll is better than just getting to re-roll FAILED charge rolls because always having the option of attempting a further charge if you want.

The FAQ clarified that you must reroll ALL dice, even the CP reroll.

 S.e.r.a.p.h.i.m wrote:
The FAQ clarified that you must reroll ALL dice, even the CP reroll.

That's incorrect. Go read it again. If you spend a CP to re-roll 1 dice, that's all you get to re-roll. If an aura or rule gives you the ability to re-roll the result of multiple dice, such as charge distance, psychic text etc, you must re-roll both dice (or however many dice you roll to get the result), but again, using a CP for re-rolls specifically allows only a single dice to re-roll.


EDIT: I'll just go ahead and add the FAQ line to my post because it's very clear.

‘Some rules allow you to re-roll a dice roll, which means
you get to roll some or all of the dice again. If a rule
allows you to re-roll a result that was made by adding
several dice together (e.g. 2D6, 3D6, etc.) then, unless
otherwise stated, you must roll all of those dice again.
You can never re-roll a dice more than once, and re-rolls
happen before modifiers (if any) are applied.’

This definitely does not include the re-roll CP, which says, "Command Re-roll Strategem, you can re-roll any single dice" Had it said re-roll any single die roll result, then you'd be correct.

/\ /\ /\ Correct.

If you can re-roll charge results as an ability, you must re-roll all the die.

If you spend a CP to re-roll a die, you re-roll just 1 die.

bobafett012 wrote:


Having said all that, Being able to re-roll ANY charge roll is better than just getting to re-roll FAILED charge rolls because always having the option of attempting a further charge if you want.

What does "the option of attempting further charge mean"?? you either successfully roll high number to charge and reach enemy unit or roll low number and failed.

How is re-roll ANY charge would be better than reroll FAILED charge rolls?

The purpose of reroll failed roll is so you can get 2nd chance to get better result roll to reach enemy unit since 1st attempt failed.

Well if I have to reroll ALL dices for both abilities then that wouldn't make any sense since that means both abilities are the same. Why call it a different ability, the fact one is free and other costs point indicate they don't function the same. One must be better or worse.

I mean think about this...

For the ability "re-roll ANY charge rolls" If you already reach the enemy with successful charge rolls, why would you want to reroll it? and if you have to reroll all dices, that's exactly what other ability does anyway, "re-roll FAILED charge rolls"

Clearly they are not the same abilities since one cost point and other is free.

 wtwlf123 wrote:
/\ /\ /\ Correct.

If you can re-roll charge results as an ability, you must re-roll all the die.

If you spend a CP to re-roll a die, you re-roll just 1 die.

Then isn't "re-roll charge rolls" the same as "re-roll failed charge rolls"?? that mean both abilities are the same? if so why one costs point and other is free?

To clarify this is not Command Point ability

Because one let's you re-roll a charge roll even if it was successful while the other only lets you re-roll it if it failed.

Then isn't "re-roll charge rolls" the same as "re-roll failed charge rolls"?

No. One allows you to re-roll any charge roll you want, and the other only allows you to re-roll them if the charge failed. There could easily be instances where you want to re-roll a charge roll even if you reach, so that you can move further with the unit and get more attackers engaged. You can't do that with the one that only allows you to re-roll failed charges.

darrekbaal wrote:

How is re-roll ANY charge would be better than reroll FAILED charge rolls?

They are different abilities and always being able to re-roll charge distance is better than just being able to re-roll failed charges. period. Keep in mind, charging works NOTHING like it used to in past editions. There is lots of situations that might have you right next to 1 unit, but further away from a 2nd or even 3rd unit you want to multicharge charge, and so maybe you roll low, which might get you into CC with the close unit but not the further unit, so you'd have the option to re-roll. Here's another example, you want to charge a unit relatively close to you, and consolidate into a unit a bit behind them but you roll very low, enough to get into CC on the front side, but not enough to maybe wrap around to the backside of the unit, where you could then consolidate into that unit behind them if you wipe your fist target out.

There's literally many situations where the option to re-roll charge distances regardless if you fail or not could and would be useful.