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Hi All,

I did do a search but got 465 hits so thought I would put a post up..

In the shooting phase, does a player have to declare where each unit will shoot (including any split firing) and then start resolving, or can you just choose a unit declare targets, resolve and then move to the next?

Obviously it's an advantage for the latter, as you can choose those with few options first, resolve and then alter your targets afterwards depending on whats still standing, but the former would be more "true to life".

Cheers

P. 179 CRB Core Rules 3. Shooting Phase

It's resolved unit-by-unit.
You do have to declare where every gun within a unit is pointing before rolling any dice.
But you don't have to aim all of your units.

For an example, let's say you have Squad A (10 man tactical, plasma gun, plasma cannon) and Squad B (5 man tactical, all bolters).

You decide to shoot with Squad A first. You declare that the Plasma Gun AND the Cannon will shoot at Rhino C, and bolters will shoot at Enemy Squad D. You then resolve those shots in whatever order you feel like. But, let's say you shoot the Cannon first, and it destroys the Rhino, you CANNOT choose to shoot the Plasma Gun elsewhere.

Then, you can shoot with Squad B, following the same procedure.

 JNAProductions wrote:
For an example, let's say you have Squad A (10 man tactical, plasma gun, plasma cannon) and Squad B (5 man tactical, all bolters).

You decide to shoot with Squad A first. You declare that the Plasma Gun AND the Cannon will shoot at Rhino C, and bolters will shoot at Enemy Squad D. You then resolve those shots in whatever order you feel like. But, let's say you shoot the Cannon first, and it destroys the Rhino, you CANNOT choose to shoot the Plasma Gun elsewhere.

Then, you can shoot with Squad B, following the same procedure.

Taking that a step-by-step further if the rhino had Marines in it when it exploded the owner of the rhino has to place them on the field and then your squad b could target them assuming Los and range were OK.

Thanks all, excellent answers and apologies for my ignorance.

No apologies needed! We were all new once. Gl with your games! Remember, if you can't agree or figure a rule out while playing the easiest answer to keep the game going is to roll a die and let fate give the answer, after which do what you did and ask other players how they would play it.

Technically, we are all newbies right now... but more eyes mean less gets over-looked.

Azuza001 wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
For an example, let's say you have Squad A (10 man tactical, plasma gun, plasma cannon) and Squad B (5 man tactical, all bolters).

You decide to shoot with Squad A first. You declare that the Plasma Gun AND the Cannon will shoot at Rhino C, and bolters will shoot at Enemy Squad D. You then resolve those shots in whatever order you feel like. But, let's say you shoot the Cannon first, and it destroys the Rhino, you CANNOT choose to shoot the Plasma Gun elsewhere.

Then, you can shoot with Squad B, following the same procedure.

Taking that a step-by-step further if the rhino had Marines in it when it exploded the owner of the rhino has to place them on the field and then your squad b could target them assuming Los and range were OK.

hmm.. could the squad that disembarked be considered an intrinsic part of the Rhino, hence open to attack from the remaining shots of squad A?

gkos wrote:

Azuza001 wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
For an example, let's say you have Squad A (10 man tactical, plasma gun, plasma cannon) and Squad B (5 man tactical, all bolters).

You decide to shoot with Squad A first. You declare that the Plasma Gun AND the Cannon will shoot at Rhino C, and bolters will shoot at Enemy Squad D. You then resolve those shots in whatever order you feel like. But, let's say you shoot the Cannon first, and it destroys the Rhino, you CANNOT choose to shoot the Plasma Gun elsewhere.

Then, you can shoot with Squad B, following the same procedure.

Taking that a step-by-step further if the rhino had Marines in it when it exploded the owner of the rhino has to place them on the field and then your squad b could target them assuming Los and range were OK.

hmm.. could the squad that disembarked be considered an intrinsic part of the Rhino, hence open to attack from the remaining shots of squad A?

No. It's never worked like that, it never will work like that.

hey ho.. Fair enough

So what if a unit has a gun that can fire twice if they didn't move. Does the unit still need to declare all its targets before any dice are rolled. For example the auto boltstorm gauntlets on Aggressors.

yellowfever wrote:
So what if a unit has a gun that can fire twice if they didn't move. Does the unit still need to declare all its targets before any dice are rolled. For example the auto boltstorm gauntlets on Aggressors.

Yes, they do.

 Happyjew wrote:

yellowfever wrote:
So what if a unit has a gun that can fire twice if they didn't move. Does the unit still need to declare all its targets before any dice are rolled. For example the auto boltstorm gauntlets on Aggressors.

Yes, they do.

That highly depends on what the rule specifically says. Aggressors say they can fire twice, and it's unclear whether this means they can be picked twice to shoot ala Khorne Berzerkers or if they resolve both sets of firing at once.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

yellowfever wrote:
So what if a unit has a gun that can fire twice if they didn't move. Does the unit still need to declare all its targets before any dice are rolled. For example the auto boltstorm gauntlets on Aggressors.

Yes, they do.

That highly depends on what the rule specifically says. Aggressors say they can fire twice, and it's unclear whether this means they can be picked twice to shoot ala Khorne Berzerkers or if they resolve both sets of firing at once.

Which means each shooting attack is separate, resolved as if it was a different weapon.

FAQ somewhat relevant:

Q: If a model has an ability that allows it to ‘shoot twice’ (e.g.
Maugan Ra and his Whirlwind of Death ability), do I need to
shoot the same target each time or can I choose different targets?
A: Unless otherwise stated, you can shoot different
targets each time it shoots. Resolve the first shooting
attack completely before resolving the second.

 JNAProductions wrote:
For an example, let's say you have Squad A (10 man tactical, plasma gun, plasma cannon) and Squad B (5 man tactical, all bolters).

You decide to shoot with Squad A first. You declare that the Plasma Gun AND the Cannon will shoot at Rhino C, and bolters will shoot at Enemy Squad D. You then resolve those shots in whatever order you feel like. But, let's say you shoot the Cannon first, and it destroys the Rhino, you CANNOT choose to shoot the Plasma Gun elsewhere.

Then, you can shoot with Squad B, following the same procedure.

For added clarity to the above.....

You can't bypass this by 'declare, resolve, declare, resolve' with the same unit. So you must declare targets for the whole squad at the same time.

That's what I thought. Thanks guys

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
For an example, let's say you have Squad A (10 man tactical, plasma gun, plasma cannon) and Squad B (5 man tactical, all bolters).

You decide to shoot with Squad A first. You declare that the Plasma Gun AND the Cannon will shoot at Rhino C, and bolters will shoot at Enemy Squad D. You then resolve those shots in whatever order you feel like. But, let's say you shoot the Cannon first, and it destroys the Rhino, you CANNOT choose to shoot the Plasma Gun elsewhere.

Then, you can shoot with Squad B, following the same procedure.

For added clarity to the above.....

You can't bypass this by 'declare, resolve, declare, resolve' with the same unit. So you must declare targets for the whole squad at the same time.

So in this case, if we're talking Aggressors (who have a special rule that allows them to shoot twice), and when taking into consideration the FAQ reference above and how they can select different targets, you would actually have to "declare, resolve, declare, resolve" with the same unit because you're supposed to resolve the shooting attack "completely" before firing again, right?

Sorry if that was long winded. I would want to get this right the first time I do it, lol

Step 4 of the Shooting phase is 'Resolve Attacks'. That is what is being referred to in the FAQ.

Lemondish wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
For an example, let's say you have Squad A (10 man tactical, plasma gun, plasma cannon) and Squad B (5 man tactical, all bolters).

You decide to shoot with Squad A first. You declare that the Plasma Gun AND the Cannon will shoot at Rhino C, and bolters will shoot at Enemy Squad D. You then resolve those shots in whatever order you feel like. But, let's say you shoot the Cannon first, and it destroys the Rhino, you CANNOT choose to shoot the Plasma Gun elsewhere.

Then, you can shoot with Squad B, following the same procedure.

For added clarity to the above.....

You can't bypass this by 'declare, resolve, declare, resolve' with the same unit. So you must declare targets for the whole squad at the same time.

So in this case, if we're talking Aggressors (who have a special rule that allows them to shoot twice), and when taking into consideration the FAQ reference above and how they can select different targets, you would actually have to "declare, resolve, declare, resolve" with the same unit because you're supposed to resolve the shooting attack "completely" before firing again, right?

Sorry if that was long winded. I would want to get this right the first time I do it, lol

In this case, yes. Because the Aggressors don't so much fire each gun twice, but effectively gain two shooting phases.

Now, I'd need to read the rules properly, but I think you have to resolve one batch after the other - rather than Aggressor first volley, Tactical Squad to wipe up, Aggressor second volley?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
In this case, yes. Because the Aggressors don't so much fire each gun twice, but effectively gain two shooting phases.

From the Aggressors 'Fire Storm' rule:

Fire Storm: Models in this unit can fire twice if they remained stationary during their turn (including when firing Overwatch).

So yes, they do fire each gun twice and do not receive two Shooting phases.

 Ghaz wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
In this case, yes. Because the Aggressors don't so much fire each gun twice, but effectively gain two shooting phases.

From the Aggressors 'Fire Storm' rule:

Fire Storm: Models in this unit can fire twice if they remained stationary during their turn (including when firing Overwatch).

So yes, they do fire each gun twice and do not receive two Shooting phases.

I'm not sure that answers my question, forgive me. The FAQ states that you can choose different targets for each attack but that the first attack needs to be fully resolved before moving to the next. When you say it doesn't grant two shooting phases, are you therefore saying that it would require you to declare both targets up front?

Choosing your target is not a part of Step 4 of the Shooting phase which again is 'Resolve Attacks'. You choose all of the targets before resolving any shooting attacks. You choose Unit A for the first time they fire and Unit B for the second time they fire. Then you reach the 'Resolve Attacks' step of the Shooting phase, completely resolving all of the shooting at Unit A before you move on and resolve all of the shooting at Unit B

Ghaz explained it better.

Hmmm, we seem to now be having the same discussion in two different places. If you want to continue to discuss models that are able to fire twice, please go to this thread:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/738204.page