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I'm surprised nobody is flipping out over what could be interpreted as a veiled announcement of the frequently-rumoured plastic Warhound

Tsagualsa wrote:
I'm surprised nobody is flipping out over what could be interpreted as a veiled announcement of the frequently-rumoured plastic Warhound

For 1 edition before it's decided titan legios are actually 30k units?

Dudeface wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:
I'm surprised nobody is flipping out over what could be interpreted as a veiled announcement of the frequently-rumoured plastic Warhound

For 1 edition before it's decided titan legios are actually 30k units?

Ouch.

Where's the announcement people are getting this from?

It could happen. Was tomorrow said to be FW, or did they avoid saying that? I would be surprised if a plastic kit stayed with the FW brand, as they seem to always switch to GW when they go plastic. Has FW ever done plastic?

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:
I'm surprised nobody is flipping out over what could be interpreted as a veiled announcement of the frequently-rumoured plastic Warhound

For 1 edition before it's decided titan legios are actually 30k units?

Ouch.

Where's the announcement people are getting this from?

Extrapolating old rumours with the random fuss being made about a titan only 10th ed preview, seems a bit weird which I agree with. Have they actually announced if the warhound is a legends unit?

Dudeface wrote:
Have they actually announced if the warhound is a legends unit?

They made an exception in the squatting article for knights and titans.

Dudeface wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

Clearly not since it was pointed out the Deep Strike rule written for 10th makes the clarification already. Got anything else to add to defend?

"While a Bodyguard unit contains a Leader, it is known as an Attached unit and, with the exception of rules that are triggered when units are destroyed (pg 12), it is treated as a single unit for all rules purposes. "

So as Gabriel would be attached it's treated as a single unit for all rules purposes, a unit of terminators has the deepstrike rule. As a result Gabriel, as a part of a unit of terminators, gains the deepstrike rule. That might be a situation for a FAQ, apart from the fact they avoided the conflict by not allowing it in the first place.

What makes you think I want to "defend" anything, you said something incorrect and you're being corrected. Does that mean you're "attacking" the rules? If so who pays you do that all the time?

During the Declare Battle Formations step, if every
model in a unit has this ability, you can set it up in
Reserves instead of setting it up on the battlefield.

Does Gabriel have the Deep strike ability? No he doesn't. Would he be a part of the unit for all rules purposes, yes. He still doesn't have the Deep strike ability himself.

TreeStewges wrote:
IIRC the Horus Heresy team said they’d look into making rules for Daemon Engines to be playable at some point. If that’s true, it’s a hell of a mindset difference between the two teams.

Further, I think many could use a quick look at some rules for Horus Heresy. While extremely… rule heavy, they can manage making options that would be very minute in 40k distinctive.

Such as a tactical squad mulling over one of three melee options; bayonets, chain bayonets or chainswords! Rather than being pure statline, the differences are often in abilities.

As a brief example, parsing heresy speak using Battlescribe to the best of my ability, the difference between a power fist and a thunder hammer is that the hammer costs more points but generates two wound rolls for every successful hit. They otherwise have the same stats.

If it were me though, for 40k I would make the hammer have less damage and/or AP while having that ability, making the power fist having more reliable damage potential whereas the hammer has the chance to do more overall.

Further, too many here seem to forget that HH has solved the issue of not enough weapons or gear by making upgrade packs. While HH still have more to go, all they would have to do for 40k is the same thing for factions that need them.

So about 20 factions out of 24-25? Where other factions have multiple units actually serving distinct roles compared to Space Marines? I mean, if nobody wants to ever get new models while we start kitting everyone with options then we should be done about 10-15 years time. I mean, I guess we can wait, but I'd rather get the rest of the resin in plastic.

The reason it is easier in Horus Heresy is that for the most part you have a lot of near-mirror matches. So if you boost one weapon it technically boosts it for almost every other faction.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:
I'm surprised nobody is flipping out over what could be interpreted as a veiled announcement of the frequently-rumoured plastic Warhound

For 1 edition before it's decided titan legios are actually 30k units?

Ouch.

Where's the announcement people are getting this from?

It's from the Space Marine chapters article today, especially the last paragraph:

There’s only one more Faction Focus left in our series, and it’s a doozy – the Adeptus Titanicus wants a piece of the new edition, and they’ve brought their own datasheets along to show off how big their numbers go. Even if you don’t pack any of the insanely powerful god-engines in your army case, you won’t want to miss it, in case a Warhound darkens your deployment zone in the not-so-far future.

That's just a weird turn of phrase, especially calling out the Warhound specifically (and not just say 'one of them' or whatever), a plastic Warhound was an option that got mentioned several times as the next logical step after knights, and it has been vaguely rumoured from time to time. It's just reading tea leaves, but with their cagey 'more Lords of War' announcements and whatnot, it might happen

As a reminder, a Warhound was featured pretty prominently for the artwork in C: Skitarii.

It would be a good fit for the AdMech LoW that they lack.

Dudeface wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

Clearly not since it was pointed out the Deep Strike rule written for 10th makes the clarification already. Got anything else to add to defend?

"While a Bodyguard unit contains a Leader, it is known as an Attached unit and, with the exception of rules that are triggered when units are destroyed (pg 12), it is treated as a single unit for all rules purposes. "

So as Gabriel would be attached it's treated as a single unit for all rules purposes, a unit of terminators has the deepstrike rule. As a result Gabriel, as a part of a unit of terminators, gains the deepstrike rule. That might be a situation for a FAQ, apart from the fact they avoided the conflict by not allowing it in the first place.

What makes you think I want to "defend" anything, you said something incorrect and you're being corrected. Does that mean you're "attacking" the rules? If so who pays you do that all the time?

Just because unit has ds doesn't mean leader gets it. And as core rule says every model in unit has to have the rule. Rule is created to account unit with model without ds...wonder why?

Note how leader rule that spreads to attached unit says so. Wonder why if rule spreads as default?

Dudeface wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

Clearly not since it was pointed out the Deep Strike rule written for 10th makes the clarification already. Got anything else to add to defend?

"While a Bodyguard unit contains a Leader, it is known as an Attached unit and, with the exception of rules that are triggered when units are destroyed (pg 12), it is treated as a single unit for all rules purposes. "

So as Gabriel would be attached it's treated as a single unit for all rules purposes, a unit of terminators has the deepstrike rule. As a result Gabriel, as a part of a unit of terminators, gains the deepstrike rule. That might be a situation for a FAQ, apart from the fact they avoided the conflict by not allowing it in the first place.

What makes you think I want to "defend" anything, you said something incorrect and you're being corrected. Does that mean you're "attacking" the rules? If so who pays you do that all the time?

counter arguement: based on the leak, DEEP STRIKE is "if every model in the unit has this ability".

show me the DEEP STRIKE ability on Gabriel Seth's datasheet.

this isn;t Pirates of the Caribbean. no "part of the ship, part of the crew" here.

 Kanluwen wrote:

It would be a good fit for the AdMech LoW that they lack.

What are knights of the cog?

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

Clearly not since it was pointed out the Deep Strike rule written for 10th makes the clarification already. Got anything else to add to defend?

"While a Bodyguard unit contains a Leader, it is known as an Attached unit and, with the exception of rules that are triggered when units are destroyed (pg 12), it is treated as a single unit for all rules purposes. "

So as Gabriel would be attached it's treated as a single unit for all rules purposes, a unit of terminators has the deepstrike rule. As a result Gabriel, as a part of a unit of terminators, gains the deepstrike rule. That might be a situation for a FAQ, apart from the fact they avoided the conflict by not allowing it in the first place.

What makes you think I want to "defend" anything, you said something incorrect and you're being corrected. Does that mean you're "attacking" the rules? If so who pays you do that all the time?

During the Declare Battle Formations step, if every
model in a unit has this ability, you can set it up in
Reserves instead of setting it up on the battlefield.

Does Gabriel have the Deep strike ability? No he doesn't. Would he be a part of the unit for all rules purposes, yes. He still doesn't have the Deep strike ability himself.

I think you've convinced me, in my head I took it as the deep strike rule applying to the unit, so if the character is a part of the unit and all rules consider the unit as a singular target, he'd inherit the rule from the terminators.

Very sad to see Blood Slaughter'ers getting the Legends treatment, one of my favorite models produced and I've run them every time in my WE.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

I'm shocked - genuinely shocked - that despite the fact that they're getting their own books the various other Chapters are just being treated as detachments and all have Oaths of fething Moment.

Codex Doctrines make more sense as an army-wide rules for Codex Marines.
Sagas make more sense as an army-wide rule for Space Wolves.
Vows make more sense as an army-wide rule for Black Templars.
Mission Tactics make more sense as an army-wide rule for Deathwatch.

I have to presume that this Oath of Moment gak is just temporary, and come the apocalypse new Codices for these armies these "detachment" abilities will be promoted to full on faction rules. I also have to presume that specialist ammunition for Deathwatch will be a fething Stratagem rather than just intrinsic to their rules like they should be.

This shocked me as well, all of the detachments previewed looked great for a Faction rule rather than a detachment rule. Wonder if they'll flip it when the codex comes out.

Well it's an interesting thumbnail at least.

 Trickstick wrote:
Well it's an interesting thumbnail at least.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

It would be a good fit for the AdMech LoW that they lack.

What are knights of the cog?

So, your answer is to tell someone to "buy a second book"?

Because Knights of the Cog is just an allying mechanism. AdMech has no LoW in their book as of 9E's codex. Even Cawl is just an HQ choice.

Dudeface wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

Clearly not since it was pointed out the Deep Strike rule written for 10th makes the clarification already. Got anything else to add to defend?

"While a Bodyguard unit contains a Leader, it is known as an Attached unit and, with the exception of rules that are triggered when units are destroyed (pg 12), it is treated as a single unit for all rules purposes. "

So as Gabriel would be attached it's treated as a single unit for all rules purposes, a unit of terminators has the deepstrike rule. As a result Gabriel, as a part of a unit of terminators, gains the deepstrike rule. That might be a situation for a FAQ, apart from the fact they avoided the conflict by not allowing it in the first place.

What makes you think I want to "defend" anything, you said something incorrect and you're being corrected. Does that mean you're "attacking" the rules? If so who pays you do that all the time?

Okay, so does whatever unit Garbiel Seth gets attached to suddenly get Whirlwind of Gore?

EviscerationPlague wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

Clearly not since it was pointed out the Deep Strike rule written for 10th makes the clarification already. Got anything else to add to defend?

"While a Bodyguard unit contains a Leader, it is known as an Attached unit and, with the exception of rules that are triggered when units are destroyed (pg 12), it is treated as a single unit for all rules purposes. "

So as Gabriel would be attached it's treated as a single unit for all rules purposes, a unit of terminators has the deepstrike rule. As a result Gabriel, as a part of a unit of terminators, gains the deepstrike rule. That might be a situation for a FAQ, apart from the fact they avoided the conflict by not allowing it in the first place.

What makes you think I want to "defend" anything, you said something incorrect and you're being corrected. Does that mean you're "attacking" the rules? If so who pays you do that all the time?

Okay, so does whatever unit Garbiel Seth gets attached to suddenly get Whirlwind of Gore?

No, but after talking it through before your response (which you missed), I was wrong as the deepstrike rules don't transfer to the model embedded in the unit. The same will be true of scout, stealth etc.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

It would be a good fit for the AdMech LoW that they lack.

What are knights of the cog?

So, your answer is to tell someone to "buy a second book"?

Because Knights of the Cog is just an allying mechanism. AdMech has no LoW in their book as of 9E's codex. Even Cawl is just an HQ choice.

LoW are not a thing anymore.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Really? Even Dreadclaws? We've had those since early 3rd edition. Congratulations, no more drop pods for CSM. Gods, I'm glad I left this utter show for HH.

No doubt it's because Dreadclaws are legends from the long forgotten days of the Horus Heresy and, unlike Space Marine Primarchs, are rarely seen on the battlefields of the 41st millennium.

Tsagualsa wrote:
I'm surprised nobody is flipping out over what could be interpreted as a veiled announcement of the frequently-rumoured plastic Warhound

I'm extremely hostile but flipping out isn't going to achieve anything.

Can't believe this place isn't freaking out with the news that a lot of models are no longer allowed to be played in competitive games.

 Trickstick wrote:


LoW are not a thing anymore.

Titanic units are.

 Trickstick wrote:
Well it's an interesting thumbnail at least.

It's the cover from the Adeptus Titanicus campaign compendium.

 NorthernXY wrote:
Can't believe this place isn't freaking out with the news that a lot of models are no longer allowed to be played in competitive games.

But... combi-flamers...

 ProfSrlojohn wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:
44 datasheets, rules, enhancements, strategems...

Can we handle that much bloat???

Seriously: Gun. Heavy Gun. Sword. Heavy Sword. Pistol. And if you're a Knight you get a +1 on your Heavy Gun and Heavy Swords.

That's all the game needs!

Come on.... its better than 1000 flavours of ever so slightly different Boltgun....

I mean, i'd like to have my Shotguns, sniper rifles and underslung special weapons to function differently. Surely there's value in showing a flamethrower attachment works differently to a gravitational singularity attachment?

There is a balance point between the claims that we will suddenly just have 5 weapons and the 1000 slightly different boltgun BS we have had inflicted on us

 NorthernXY wrote:
Can't believe this place isn't freaking out with the news that a lot of models are no longer allowed to be played in competitive games.

I think it's because alot of them can really be used just not with a unique data sheet. Admittedly the dreadnoughts likely have some wysiwyg issues, but that seems to be going away a bit in terms of importance, such as leader pistols etc. With the Boxnaught to stop being sold, I'm waiting to see how many different types actually get data sheets Leviathan with two melee weapons, use it as a Brutalis. 30K rhino, use it as a Rhino. Main plastic kits I can see as an issue are the new large marine tanks, but I don't think they were ever that competitive so likely weren't used by the competitive scene much.

Eldarsif, you’re glossing over a lot of details.

1.) Space Marines, encompassing all flavors, are hardly the only factions with multi-equip option units that didn’t traditionally have everything in a box.

Adepta Sororitas, Adeptus Mechanicus, Astra Militarum for the Imperium.

Chaos Knights (the Despoiler Knight) for Chaos.

And for Xenos; Drukhari, Genestealer Cults, Harlequins, Leagues of Votann, Orks and T’au Empire.

All have major units that didn’t have everything they could equip in a single kit.

Even then we have partial exceptions. Custodes have forge world only weapon upgrades for their troop unit. Eldar Autarchs now are split between two kits for options, etc.

Titans don’t come with weapons at all, they have to be bought separate but Forgeworld factions are also weird.

Treating partial options as not counting. Only Custodes, Grey Knights, Imperial Knights, Daemons, Asuryani, Necrons and Tyranids are unaffected.

Per 9th edition conventions, I count 23 factions including both flavors of Titans. Only 7 are unaffected thus 16/23 factions are. That’s almost 70%!

2.) Even for the unaffected, they still are because of over consolidation from a pure rules perspective. How long until both weapons of Necron Warriors are made one because they aren’t distinctive enough?

3.) Despite this being an ongoing reality from the beginning of the game. Multi-option kits didn’t stop new units from being made at all.

Horus Heresy itself has loads of units, mainly infantry, that are purely different based on what they’re equipped with. Yet upgrade kits still make perfect sense.