Author |
Message |
 |
|
 |
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/08/31 18:33:51
Subject: Does a control/reaction army exist?
|
 |
Been Around the Block
|
So my play-style tends to be a reaction (control, blue magic the gathering) sort of style (opponent makes move, I counter move). Which army would fit that style of play most closely?
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/08/31 18:38:22
Subject: Does a control/reaction army exist?
|
 |
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord
|
Eldar previously held that title as much of their psychic powers are designed to lower your opponent's odds and up yours.
However with the introduction of Stratagems that give all armies some way of mitigating bad rolls (namely, the reroll one) and psychic powers being far more limited, I doubt this is the case anymore.
Most armies nowadays do have some way of countering something else. The only restriction is that you generally don't want to bring one of everything; if you don't have at least one duplicate of something, the opponent is liable to just focus fire the one thing you have off the board. 40k's nature isn't one that lends itself well to designing a reactive army. It's better to design around a certain win-con instead (such as staying power, overwhelming firepower, or outmanouvering the opponent). 40K also has random missions, which can often change up the dynamics of some units depending on which mission you play.
|
Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!
Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.
When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/08/31 18:38:23
Subject: Does a control/reaction army exist?
|
 |
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter
|
Not...really? 40k doesn't have the ability to interact with things your opponent is doing in the MTG-control sort of way.
As for the countermove aspect I'd suggest looking at Tau battlesuits for an arsenal of mid-ranged weapons on mobile platforms that seek to maneuver to keep the other guy at some intermediate range.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/08/31 18:40:14
Subject: Does a control/reaction army exist?
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
The reason control works in Magic is because you often have the time to set up, and you are able to diminish your opponent's resources will building up your own. Eventually, your opponent is out-resourced, as you have a handful of every answer you need, while they topdeck.
40k doesn't work by the same rules (summoning spam used to, but it's gone now, unknown if it'll ever return). In 40k, it's all about attrition and movement. Either you plan on killing them faster than they kill you (going heavier on the survival or killiness side of that equiation), or you plan on being better positioned the whole game, which is often 6 turns or less! I'd say a "control" strategy in 40k is based on "board control". You want to effectively "be" everywhere that your opponent wants to go, and so you restrict their movement options.
The best people for that are ones that move very quickly, or swarm the board. Orks and Imperial Guard can swarm the board and try to "control" their opponents in that way. Eldar, Dark Eldar, and Harlequins are extremely fast, and can move places very quickly. Tyranids in this edition also have a lot of deployment tricks that can put them into a board control setup.
|
Galef wrote:If you refuse to use rock, you will never beat scissors. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/08/31 18:44:40
Subject: Does a control/reaction army exist?
|
 |
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba
|
In terms of a "reactive" army, I would say your best bet is probably either Necrons, Mechanized Eldar, or battlesuit-heavy Tau. All those armies feature units with the Fly ability to leave melee combat when they get charged (and still shoot afterwards), good durability, and weapons that are more suited to longer-term engagements rather than hoping to alphastrike and kill the enemy before they kill you.
|
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!" |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/08/31 18:45:41
Subject: Does a control/reaction army exist?
|
 |
Courageous Beastmaster
|
The only army that has universal rule like that is Ynnari sfd.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/08/31 19:51:20
Subject: Does a control/reaction army exist?
|
 |
Norn Queen
|
40k isn't a super interactive game. There isn't much in the way of counter play. It's more I shoot all my things then you shoot all yours.
|
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/08/31 20:10:24
Subject: Does a control/reaction army exist?
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Ynnari seems like the counter option. Bear in mind you have to have units close by though.
That said, I think an extremely mobile force so you can dictate plays or react to the opponent would suit you more. 40k isn't known for being able to react on the fly (as a game, Infinity does it better) but being mobile would allow you to respond faster than trudging up the field.
|
YMDC = nightmare |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/08/31 20:14:09
Subject: Does a control/reaction army exist?
|
 |
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord
|
I think the closest to reactionary moves you can do is using deepstrikers to respond to enemy threats. However with Drop Pods becoming more expensive, I think only Termicide can feasably do it.
|
Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!
Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.
When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/08/31 20:25:16
Subject: Does a control/reaction army exist?
|
 |
Loyal Necron Lychguard
|
Earth127 wrote:The only army that has universal rule like that is Ynnari sfd.
You can get something similar out of Emperor's Children with Noise Marines.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/08/31 20:27:09
Subject: Does a control/reaction army exist?
|
 |
Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade
|
Ynarri and Sisters of Battle.
Ynarri because of the obvious.
SoB because you are getting "extra" phases before your movement even begins, effectively countering what your opponent did before you take your turn.
So for example, a squad of sisters is charged and survives into their turn. The Act of faith rule lets them either move out of combat, shoot their pistols, attack again, or gain back a lost model. The example tactic would be to shoot the pistols they have, then fall back in the movement phase, effectively giving them a shooting phase they normally would not even get.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/08/31 20:28:16
Subject: Does a control/reaction army exist?
|
 |
Rough Rider with Boomstick
|
Well, I guess Necrons do have one unit that is very specifically reactive: deathmarks.
They have an ability where, when an enemy unit deep strikes, they can appear right next to it and get a free shot. Could result in some shenanigans.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/08/31 20:33:34
Subject: Does a control/reaction army exist?
|
 |
Omnipotent Necron Overlord
|
Some form of elder would suit you best I think. Harlequins most likely.
|
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/08/31 21:14:30
Subject: Does a control/reaction army exist?
|
 |
War Walker Pilot with Withering Fire
|
Tau seems like a legitimate option here, battlesuit-style. You can deepstrike them in, bounce out of melee, and use drones to buffer shots against characters. Y'vahra suits from FW are very much, "I'm going to hop down and melt your face, then hop off."
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/09/01 02:28:03
Subject: Does a control/reaction army exist?
|
 |
Battle-tested Knight Castellan Pilot
|
ross-128 wrote:Well, I guess Necrons do have one unit that is very specifically reactive: deathmarks.
They have an ability where, when an enemy unit deep strikes, they can appear right next to it and get a free shot. Could result in some shenanigans.
Do not build an army of deathmarks
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/01 05:06:39
12,000
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/09/01 03:21:44
Subject: Does a control/reaction army exist?
|
 |
Fresh-Faced New User
|
100BostonFan wrote:So my play-style tends to be a reaction (control, blue magic the gathering) sort of style (opponent makes move, I counter move). Which army would fit that style of play most closely?
Probably armies with ALOT of deep strike.
You will deploy half of your army as a fire base and then as the opponent attacks you you counter strike with Deep strike or Grav Chute or Aerial Drop.
Imperial Guard (Tempestus Command Squad, Scions, with aerial drop).
Valkyries Grav Chute Deploying troops.
Callidus Assassin "reigns of confusion" is rather blue! power sink on a 4+ when opponent spends command points!
If you are use to playing blue you will need Psychers so you can Deny the Witch "counter spells" and use psychics "sorcery spells" "enchants"
Primaris Psyhers for Deny the witch and "Counter spells" in the Psychic Phase. Also Buffs and Debuffs.
|
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/09/01 03:27:06
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/09/01 09:46:07
Subject: Does a control/reaction army exist?
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
The ruins of the Palace of Thorns
|
I'm going to go a bit "out-there" and suggest Genestealer Cults as a very reactive army. All sorts of deployment shenanigans allowing you to play silly games with your opponent.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/09/01 18:07:40
Subject: Does a control/reaction army exist?
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Ynarri for their obvious soul burst ability, any ability that allows you to do something during your opponents turn is high. On top of that being able to bring pretty much the best from eldar or dark eldar is amazing.
Second would be sisters, their acts of faith are sweet as well.
3rd is chaos. If you built a chaos force that focused on noise Marines with their emporers children bonus is quite effective, and if you take a separate small detachment of chaos undivided charecters you would get the ability to summon in some sweet sweet chaos deamons of awesome tactical use. Need to tar pit? Pink horrors. Need to stab something to death? Deamonettes or bloodletting. Get a great roll? Oh, let's get a deamon prince or maybe a great unclean one. Possibly a lord of change. Get your noise Marines shot up? They get to shoot back. It's all good with chaos.
|
|
 |
 |
|