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Here's the lowdown: if you've got any kind of <CHAOS> <CHARACTER> in your army (other than Cypher), you can have them forfeit their movement in order to summon some reinforcements from the Warp. Pick a God, throw up to 3D6, take a MW on doubles and D3 on triples, and then deep strike in a unit - of the God you chose - from the list and below 12" away, of a power level not exceeding what you rolled. If it's Matched Play, you'll have to set aside Points to do this. If you're a Word Bearer, you can pre-emptively spend a CP to re-roll any of those dice and ignore damage to yourself. At time of writing, there's an open question on how Be'lakor fits into this, but RAI seem to be that he's allowed.

This isn't a thread to discuss if Summoning is actually any good; some of us like to play as diabolists, some of us like the flexibility it presents and the uncertainty it creates, some of us might be about to play a scenario which requires it and need to work out what to bring along.

So, what we're going to do is vote on a worth-it list of Daemon units to bring along for summoning. Think about the space it'll take up in transit, the cost of buying the kit, the likelihood that you'll actually get to use it if it's not part of your army list, the utility it has as a summon, the impact it'll have on your opponent as they deploy knowing that you have it on your sideboard, the shock it will inflict when you bring it out after not leaving it prominently on the sideboard, the synergy it has with the way you'd play, and anything else that you think pertinent.

Copy & paste the most recent version of the big list below; the number before the entry is its ranking in the list, and the number after the ending is our score for it. Edit in your own -2 to the score of a unit you want to see pushed down the list, and your own +1 to a unit you think is currently underrated. You can split your -2 into a couple of -1 if you feel you have to. If your modifiers push something up or down the rankings, then please also edit its position accordingly. If you take something down to zero, strike it off the list! If an FAQ massively changes something that's fallen off the list, then feel free to use your +1 to bring it back from relegation to work it's way back up from the bottom. And please, only vote once a day - persistence is most welcome, but this isn't an early Wikipedia edit war

Modifiers and commentary might look like this:

...
15 Zarathruster 14
16- Gribblybeast 13 -2
16- Slimatrice 13
17 Spite Gnomes 2 +1
...

The Gribblybeast is just not worth 250pts and the beak always falls off when you pack it, I had to push it lower than Zara. How has nobody realised that Spite Gnomes completely shut down THSS Squads - they clearly should not fall off the list?

So, here's the starting list. Note that units with a PL over 18 are not included, as it is currently impossible to summon them; also note Forgeworld units have a preemptive marking down, on account of their rules and models being less widely distributed - if you think one of them is a must-take, get voting it up! And, yes, I'm afraid there's going to be a lot of tedious mass-editing of numbers until we start to see some stratifying... I'll do my best to do maintenance and tidying as and when. Let's see if we can prune this long pile of names down to a couple of dozen decent choices

1- Karanak 20
1- Skulltaker 20
1- Bloodthirster (all types) 20
1- Herald of Khorne 20
1- Herald of Khorne on Blood Throne 20
1- Flesh Hounds 20
1- Herald of Khorne on Juggernaut 20
1- Bloodletters 20
1- Bloodcrushers 20
1- Skull Cannon 20
1- The Changeling 20
1- The Blue Scribes 20
1- Lord of Change 20
1- Herald of Tzeentch 20
1- Herald of Tzeentch on Disc 20
1- Herald of Tzeentch on Burning Chariot 20
1- Horrors 20
1- Flamers 20
1- Exalted Flamer 20
1- Screamers 20
1- Burning Chariot 20
1- Epidemius 20
1- Great Unclean One 20
1- Herald of Nurgle 20
1- Plaguebearers 20
1- Nurglings 20
1- Beasts of Nurgle 20
1- Plague Drones 20
1- The Masque of Slaanesh 20
1- Keeper of Secrets 20
1- Herald of Slaanesh 20
1- Herald of Slaanesh on Steed 20
1- Herald of Slaanesh on Seeker Chariot 20
1- Herald of Slaanesh on Exalted Seeker Chariot 20
1- Daemonettes 20
1- Fiends of Slaanesh 20
1- Hellflayer 20
1- Seekers 20
1- Seeker Chariot 20
1- Exalted Seeker Chariot 20
1- Be'lakor 20
1- Daemon Prince of Chaos 20
1- Chaos Furies 20
1- Soul Grinder 20
45- Plague Hulk of Nurgle (FW) 10
45- Uraka the Warfiend (FW) 10
45- Samus (FW) 10
45- Mamon Transfigured (FW) 10
45- Cor'Bax Utterblight (FW) 10
45- Plague Toads (FW) 10
45- Pox Riders (FW) 10
45- Spined Chaos Beast (FW) 10
45- Giant Chaos Spawn (FW) 10


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Okay, now here's my opening votes:

1 The Changeling 21 +1
2- Karanak 20
2- Skulltaker 20
2- Herald of Khorne 20
2- Herald of Khorne on Blood Throne 20
2- Flesh Hounds 20
2- Herald of Khorne on Juggernaut 20
2- Bloodletters 20
2- Bloodcrushers 20
2- Skull Cannon 20
2- The Blue Scribes 20
2- Herald of Tzeentch 20
2- Herald of Tzeentch on Disc 20
2- Herald of Tzeentch on Burning Chariot 20
2- Horrors 20
2- Flamers 20
2- Exalted Flamer 20
2- Screamers 20
2- Burning Chariot 20
2- Epidemius 20
2- Great Unclean One 20
2- Herald of Nurgle 20
2- Plaguebearers 20
2- Nurglings 20
2- Beasts of Nurgle 20
2- Plague Drones 20
2- The Masque of Slaanesh 20
2- Keeper of Secrets 20
2- Herald of Slaanesh 20
2- Herald of Slaanesh on Steed 20
2- Herald of Slaanesh on Seeker Chariot 20
2- Herald of Slaanesh on Exalted Seeker Chariot 20
2- Daemonettes 20
2- Fiends of Slaanesh 20
2- Hellflayer 20
2- Seekers 20
2- Seeker Chariot 20
2- Exalted Seeker Chariot 20
2- Be'lakor 20
2- Daemon Prince of Chaos 20
2- Chaos Furies 20
2- Soul Grinder 20
43- Bloodthirster (all types) 19 -1
43- Lord of Change 19 -1
45- Plague Hulk of Nurgle (FW) 10
45- Uraka the Warfiend (FW) 10
45- Samus (FW) 10
45- Mamon Transfigured (FW) 10
45- Cor'Bax Utterblight (FW) 10
45- Plague Toads (FW) 10
45- Pox Riders (FW) 10
45- Spined Chaos Beast (FW) 10
45- Giant Chaos Spawn (FW) 10

You can bring a Bloodthirster or Lord of Change and underspend on your army by nearly a Land Raider's points. Is it going to worry your opponent? Not one bit, if they know what they're doing. You need to roll two sixes and a 5+ to summon it - and if you're not a Word Bearer throwing CPs at it, you're almost certainly going to kill yourself first. It's a massive space hog in your figure case, and 99% of your attempts to bring it in will fail.

On the other hand, you can easily summon The Changeling, and the Tzeentch Obliterators and Mutilators you teleported in to counter a scary attack just got a sweet -1 to be hit. A very handy model to bring along as an option for emergencies or as a secret weapon.

1 The Changeling 21
2- Karanak 20
2- Skulltaker 20
2- Herald of Khorne 20
2- Herald of Khorne on Blood Throne 20
2- Flesh Hounds 20
2- Herald of Khorne on Juggernaut 20
2- Bloodletters 21 +1
2- Bloodcrushers 20
2- Skull Cannon 19 -1
2- The Blue Scribes 20
2- Herald of Tzeentch 20
2- Herald of Tzeentch on Disc 20
2- Herald of Tzeentch on Burning Chariot 20
2- Horrors 20
2- Flamers 20
2- Exalted Flamer 20
2- Screamers 20
2- Burning Chariot 20
2- Epidemius 20
2- Great Unclean One 20
2- Herald of Nurgle 20
2- Plaguebearers 20
2- Nurglings 20
2- Beasts of Nurgle 20
2- Plague Drones 20
2- The Masque of Slaanesh 20
2- Keeper of Secrets 20
2- Herald of Slaanesh 20
2- Herald of Slaanesh on Steed 20
2- Herald of Slaanesh on Seeker Chariot 20
2- Herald of Slaanesh on Exalted Seeker Chariot 20
2- Daemonettes 20
2- Fiends of Slaanesh 20
2- Hellflayer 20
2- Seekers 20
2- Seeker Chariot 20
2- Exalted Seeker Chariot 20
2- Be'lakor 20
2- Daemon Prince of Chaos 20
2- Chaos Furies 20
2- Soul Grinder 20
43- Bloodthirster (all types) 19
43- Lord of Change 18 -1
45- Plague Hulk of Nurgle (FW) 10
45- Uraka the Warfiend (FW) 10
45- Samus (FW) 10
45- Mamon Transfigured (FW) 10
45- Cor'Bax Utterblight (FW) 10
45- Plague Toads (FW) 10
45- Pox Riders (FW) 10
45- Spined Chaos Beast (FW) 10
45- Giant Chaos Spawn (FW) 10

I will not summon the changeling, since I will put him on the table during deployement to protect my Tzeentch daemon.

I tried to summon some Bloodletters with instrument, they worked great !
They completely destroyed a necrons warriors blob

The lord of change are completely worthless, because Tzeentch have the worst psychic power of the game !
Plus, it's almost impossible to summon one of them.

The skull canon are also not worth it, it's best to summon an exalted flamer.
They have two mode, better ap, can fly and can hide behind other unit.

I'm thinking changling and horrors, summoned in to protect oblitorators (who will be deep striking, so no point deploying.)

At that points level, would be good to know alternatives for counter assault.
How good is Samus? Bloodcrushers could work. Or lots of bloodletters

 Stuxseth wrote:

1 The Changeling 21
2- Karanak 20
2- Skulltaker 20
2- Herald of Khorne 20
2- Herald of Khorne on Blood Throne 20
2- Flesh Hounds 20
2- Herald of Khorne on Juggernaut 20
2- Bloodletters 21
2- Bloodcrushers 20
2- The Blue Scribes 20
2- Herald of Tzeentch 20
2- Herald of Tzeentch on Disc 20
2- Herald of Tzeentch on Burning Chariot 20
2- Horrors 20
2- Flamers 20
2- Exalted Flamer 20
2- Screamers 20
2- Burning Chariot 20
2- Epidemius 20
2- Great Unclean One 20
2- Herald of Nurgle 20
2- Plaguebearers 20
2- Nurglings 20
2- Beasts of Nurgle 20
2- Plague Drones 20
2- The Masque of Slaanesh 20
2- Keeper of Secrets 20
2- Herald of Slaanesh 20
2- Herald of Slaanesh on Steed 20
2- Herald of Slaanesh on Seeker Chariot 20
2- Daemonettes 20
2- Fiends of Slaanesh 20
2- Hellflayer 20
2- Seekers 20
2- Seeker Chariot 20
2- Exalted Seeker Chariot 20
2- Be'lakor 20
2- Daemon Prince of Chaos 20
2- Chaos Furies 20
2- Soul Grinder 20
42- Herald of Slaanesh on Exalted Seeker Chariot 19 -1
42- Bloodthirster (all types) 19
43- Skull Cannon 18 -1
43- Lord of Change 18
44- Giant Chaos Spawn (FW) 11 +1
45- Plague Hulk of Nurgle (FW) 10
45- Uraka the Warfiend (FW) 10
45- Samus (FW) 10
45- Mamon Transfigured (FW) 10
45- Cor'Bax Utterblight (FW) 10
45- Plague Toads (FW) 10
45- Pox Riders (FW) 10
45- Spined Chaos Beast (FW) 10

The skull cannon just seems a bit too pricey and just not good enough compared to other dameon engines you can get.
Exalted chariot herald I voted down, as it's not a good choice due to being over 10 wounds (and so loses all its character protection). The normal chariot one seems good though.

I voted up the Giant Spawn, because I'm doing a conversion for one and it seems like it would be a pretty good distraction carnifex / killing machine, for its pretty bargain cost. I was likely to start them on the board, but summoning should work for them too.

I think we should make more -1 / +1 because we aren't very far at this rate...

Yes, it may take a little while to get some eliminations and proper stratification at this rate, even with several daily votes. I've adopted the format from one used on the Civilization Fanatics Forums, and it perhaps could have done with lower starting numbers due to the larger number of entries than tends to be the case.

If there's no objections, on my next vote I'll also cut five from every Citadel unit and two from every Forgeworld unit. That should speed things along whilst giving time for minority advocates to defend a unit that everybody else is underrating

Flesh Hounds are a solid choice IMO - easy to summon, cheap and small transport footprint if you use other canine beast sets, and decent threat range and damage output.

Summoning Nurglings seems pretty pointless - their purpose is to infiltrate and thereby hog objectives and block deep strikes. Magicking them up after the game has started seems a bit late? Maybe if you rolled a 3 for Summoning your Plaguebearers and you've already had some Nurglings squished.

I'm going to keep pushing the LoC and Bloodthirster down, they're clearly never going to be worth packing for summoning at PL 17.

1- The Changeling 21
1- Bloodletters 21
1- Flesh Hounds 21 +1
4- Karanak 20
4- Skulltaker 20
4- Herald of Khorne 20
4- Herald of Khorne on Blood Throne 20
4- Herald of Khorne on Juggernaut 20
4- Bloodcrushers 20
4- The Blue Scribes 20
4- Herald of Tzeentch 20
4- Herald of Tzeentch on Disc 20
4- Herald of Tzeentch on Burning Chariot 20
4- Horrors 20
4- Flamers 20
4- Exalted Flamer 20
4- Screamers 20
4- Burning Chariot 20
4- Epidemius 20
4- Great Unclean One 20
4- Herald of Nurgle 20
4- Plaguebearers 20
4- Beasts of Nurgle 20
4- Plague Drones 20
4- The Masque of Slaanesh 20
4- Keeper of Secrets 20
4- Herald of Slaanesh 20
4- Herald of Slaanesh on Steed 20
4- Herald of Slaanesh on Seeker Chariot 20
4- Daemonettes 20
4- Fiends of Slaanesh 20
4- Hellflayer 20
4- Seekers 20
4- Seeker Chariot 20
4- Exalted Seeker Chariot 20
4- Be'lakor 20
4- Daemon Prince of Chaos 20
4- Chaos Furies 20
4- Soul Grinder 20
40- Nurglings 19 -1
40- Herald of Slaanesh on Exalted Seeker Chariot 19
42- Bloodthirster (all types) 18 -1
42- Skull Cannon 18
42- Lord of Change 18
45 Giant Chaos Spawn (FW) 11
46- Plague Hulk of Nurgle (FW) 10
46- Uraka the Warfiend (FW) 10
46- Samus (FW) 10
46- Mamon Transfigured (FW) 10
46- Cor'Bax Utterblight (FW) 10
46- Plague Toads (FW) 10
46- Pox Riders (FW) 10
46- Spined Chaos Beast (FW) 10

I would also say it would be worth dropping by ... i dunno, -5 or something, anything that is over 12 PL, as the average roll on 3 dice would be about 9-12 (I think it's 10.5 statistically), and so anything over 12 would be very unreliable.

Though you can then make exceptions for particularly strong units, as you would have the option of bringing in cheaper units if you dont roll high enough, but have an expensive unit ready in your game box in case you happen to roll high enough.

But those particularly good units would get their score raised by votes, so I'd suggest just dropping all PL13 + units by say... 5. I'll even make a little list.

Downers:

Skarbrand - PL19, so unlikely to ever be summoned, is he good enough? (He didnt seem to be on your list so I added him)
Bloodthirsters - PL17
Kairos Fateweaver - PL20 (also not on your list, am i missing a rule that says they can't be summoned?)
Lord of Change - PL17

Daemon Prince - PL11 - This one drops by -3, because its not *that* expensive, but it is pretty useless, because when it has wings you can just guarantee a deepstrike instead of hoping for summon rolls.


Uppers:

Great unlean one - PL12 - Maybe this guy should get a +1, as he's actually pretty cheap and so relatively easy to cast, for a greater daemon.
Keeper of Secrets - PL11 - +1 for this guy too for being the cheapest of the greater daemons, and almost breaks even on the roll-average as well.
Belakor - PL12 - Same as great unclean one on PL, but I dunno how their stats and abilities compare. Give him a +1 too though, and let god sort them out. (Also wasn't on your list so I added him)


1- The Changeling 21
1- Bloodletters 21
1- Flesh Hounds 21
1- Great Unclean One 21
1- Keeper of Secrets 21
1- Belakor 21
6- Karanak 20
6- Skulltaker 20
6- Herald of Khorne 20
6- Herald of Khorne on Blood Throne 20
6- Herald of Khorne on Juggernaut 20
6- Bloodcrushers 20
6- The Blue Scribes 20
6- Herald of Tzeentch 20
6- Herald of Tzeentch on Disc 20
6- Herald of Tzeentch on Burning Chariot 20
6- Horrors 20
6- Flamers 20
6- Exalted Flamer 20
6- Screamers 20
6- Burning Chariot 20
6- Epidemius 20
6- Herald of Nurgle 20
6- Plaguebearers 20
6- Beasts of Nurgle 20
6- Plague Drones 20
6- The Masque of Slaanesh 20
6- Herald of Slaanesh 20
6- Herald of Slaanesh on Steed 20
6- Herald of Slaanesh on Seeker Chariot 20
6- Daemonettes 20
6- Fiends of Slaanesh 20
6- Hellflayer 20
6- Seekers 20
6- Seeker Chariot 20
6- Exalted Seeker Chariot 20
6- Be'lakor 20
6- Chaos Furies 20
6- Soul Grinder 20
40- Nurglings 19
40- Herald of Slaanesh on Exalted Seeker Chariot 19
42- Skull Cannon 18
43- Daemon Prince of Chaos 17
44 Giant Chaos Spawn (FW) 16
45- Skarbrand 15
45- Kairos Fateweaver 15
46- Lord of Change 13
46- Bloodthirster (all types) 13
47- Plague Hulk of Nurgle (FW) 10
47- Uraka the Warfiend (FW) 10
47- Samus (FW) 10
47- Mamon Transfigured (FW) 10
47- Cor'Bax Utterblight (FW) 10
47- Plague Toads (FW) 10
47- Pox Riders (FW) 10
47- Spined Chaos Beast (FW) 10



Edit - I have altered the above to give the Giant Chaos Spawn a further +5. I know you gave Forgeworld units a big negative because the rules and models are "rarer", but Forgeworld isn't that hard to get hold of these days, and a huge plus in favour of the chaos spawn is that it's so ripe for conversions (I'm in the process of making one right now), as well as using other models as proxies (there's a recent thread with example on here somewhere, of various cool Warhammer Sigmar models that would look great as spawn).

Plus it actually has decent and fun rules.

Feel free to retract or alter my changes, but I think I've made decent points.

Hi @Niiru,

I do agree with your changes - as it happens I'm ordering Be'lakor and making a KoS exactly for this purpose. The idea with this format is small votes are made daily - I have no issue with people casting big votes as long as they don't do so every day, so as long as you give it a while before voting again it seems ok to me

A few quick points of order, though - Be'lakor was already on the list; it was written in the order units appear in Index: Chaos, so he was just above the FW units. Also, in the OP I mentioned that units with PL18+ are impossible to summon, even for Word Bearers, and therefore have been left off this list altogether.

I've also added my own votes for today - Plaguebearers are a fine unit to bring along to bulwark an objective, just be careful with their delicate weapon tips. Down with PL17 again.

Let's also see if adding some bookends to the list makes it copy & paste more easily on iOS

--
1- The Changeling 21
1- Bloodletters 21
1- Flesh Hounds 21
1- Great Unclean One 21
1- Keeper of Secrets 21
1- Be'lakor 21
1- Plaguebearers 21 +1
8- Karanak 20
8- Skulltaker 20
8- Herald of Khorne 20
8- Herald of Khorne on Blood Throne 20
8- Herald of Khorne on Juggernaut 20
8- Bloodcrushers 20
8- The Blue Scribes 20
8- Herald of Tzeentch 20
8- Herald of Tzeentch on Disc 20
8- Herald of Tzeentch on Burning Chariot 20
8- Horrors 20
8- Flamers 20
8- Exalted Flamer 20
8- Screamers 20
8- Burning Chariot 20
8- Epidemius 20
8- Herald of Nurgle 20
8- Beasts of Nurgle 20
8- Plague Drones 20
8- The Masque of Slaanesh 20
8- Herald of Slaanesh 20
8- Herald of Slaanesh on Steed 20
8- Herald of Slaanesh on Seeker Chariot 20
8- Daemonettes 20
8- Fiends of Slaanesh 20
8- Hellflayer 20
8- Seekers 20
8- Seeker Chariot 20
8- Exalted Seeker Chariot 20
8- Chaos Furies 20
8- Soul Grinder 20
39- Nurglings 19
39- Herald of Slaanesh on Exalted Seeker Chariot 19
41 Skull Cannon 18
42 Daemon Prince of Chaos 17
43 Giant Chaos Spawn (FW) 16
44- Lord of Change 12 -1
44- Bloodthirster (all types) 12 -1
45- Plague Hulk of Nurgle (FW) 10
45- Uraka the Warfiend (FW) 10
45- Samus (FW) 10
45- Mamon Transfigured (FW) 10
45- Cor'Bax Utterblight (FW) 10
45- Plague Toads (FW) 10
45- Pox Riders (FW) 10
45- Spined Chaos Beast (FW) 10
--

1- The Changeling 21
1- Bloodletters 21
1- Flesh Hounds 21
1- Great Unclean One 21
1- Keeper of Secrets 21
1- Be'lakor 21
1- Plaguebearers 21
8- Karanak 20
8- Skulltaker 20
8- Herald of Khorne 20
8- Herald of Khorne on Blood Throne 20
8- Herald of Khorne on Juggernaut 20
8- Bloodcrushers 21 +1
8- The Blue Scribes 20
8- Herald of Tzeentch 20
8- Herald of Tzeentch on Disc 20
8- Herald of Tzeentch on Burning Chariot 20
8- Horrors 21 +1
8- Flamers 20
8- Exalted Flamer 20
8- Screamers 19 -1
8- Burning Chariot 20
8- Epidemius 20
8- Herald of Nurgle 20
8- Beasts of Nurgle 20
8- Plague Drones 20
8- The Masque of Slaanesh 20
8- Herald of Slaanesh 20
8- Herald of Slaanesh on Steed 20
8- Herald of Slaanesh on Seeker Chariot 20
8- Daemonettes 20
8- Fiends of Slaanesh 20
8- Hellflayer 20
8- Seekers 20
8- Seeker Chariot 20
8- Exalted Seeker Chariot 20
8- Chaos Furies 20
8- Soul Grinder 20
39- Nurglings 19
39- Herald of Slaanesh on Exalted Seeker Chariot 19
41 Skull Cannon 18
42 Daemon Prince of Chaos 17
43 Giant Chaos Spawn (FW) 16
44- Lord of Change 12 -1
44- Bloodthirster (all types) 12 -1
45- Plague Hulk of Nurgle (FW) 10
45- Uraka the Warfiend (FW) 10
45- Samus (FW) 10
45- Mamon Transfigured (FW) 10
45- Cor'Bax Utterblight (FW) 10
45- Plague Toads (FW) 10
45- Pox Riders (FW) 10
45- Spined Chaos Beast (FW) 10

------------------

I took the bloodcrusher because they hit reaaally hard, but they die quite quickly.
Plus, with 3 hp and an 4+ armor, the ennemy plasma/lascanon isn't wasted on them.
Sooooo, summoning them keep them safe from heavy fire and they can kill something for Khorne.

horrors... Because they are super cheap !
ten horrors can stand for a long time, it's simple to summon them even with two dice, and you can hold an objective, screen something or tarpit almost annithing.
I have hold a thunderwolf cavalry, five wulfen and a space wolf dreadnought hq for three turn with the changeling help and some reserve point ^^
Don't try this against Khorne berserker, they will die, quick.
But at least they don't charge your hq !

And screamers because they are too pricey and are quick, so summoning make them slower.