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So, I have a pair of predators that I'll be assembling and painting soon. What is the most optimal load out for them now? Seems like the autocannon is actually worth considering with the changes to it in 8th, but what about the sponsons?

How important are the extra pips of strength and save modifier?

Thanks!

Lascannons.

An autocannon / heavy bolter can kill troops, but a lascannon can kill anything.

If you want a dedicated troop killer, FW has some Rapier Quad Heavy Bolters that each cost just slightly more than 12 cultists. For the points, it's the most efficient troop killer in the game.

Why pay more for less?

Typo wrote:
So, I have a pair of predators that I'll be assembling and painting soon. What is the most optimal load out for them now? Seems like the autocannon is actually worth considering with the changes to it in 8th, but what about the sponsons?

How important are the extra pips of strength and save modifier?

Thanks!

The optimal loadout is magnets so you can try them both out whenever you feel like. But if I had to pick one I'd go with the lascannons.

I prefer Destructors over any of the other variants. The Predator Autocannon is more flexible and reliable than a Twin Lascannon. Sure, it's not an anti-tank weapon, but it'll deal nicely with anything but T8 vehicles. I like both sponson options, it mostly depends on if I already have other dedicated anti-tank options and how many points I have left.

I like Quad Lascannon Predators. The +2 STR is the difference between wounding on a 5 and wounding on a 3.

I've been eternally unimpressed with autocannons, and I still am.

Mine is autocannon and lascannons. I like the extra shots of the auto cannon but I don't want to go full dakka so I opted for lasacannons on the sponsons for anti-tank

I like auto cannon/ 2x las cannon. Things with high invo saves are better targets for the auto cannon and that reliable 3 damage is really nice. Also if you get lucky you can get 6 shots. Both are nice options really - I don't think you can go wrong with ether TBH.

nekooni wrote:
I prefer Destructors over any of the other variants. The Predator Autocannon is more flexible and reliable than a Twin Lascannon. Sure, it's not an anti-tank weapon, but it'll deal nicely with anything but T8 vehicles. I like both sponson options, it mostly depends on if I already have other dedicated anti-tank options and how many points I have left.

Im not 100% on that, the Autocannon, while under strength compared to the lascannon has the potential to inflict more damage if it wounds with its flat 3 damage. I'd almost wager that in the long run both options are about the same, with the autocannon being far more deadly to lighter vehicles like chimeras or rhinos. Of course Im terrible at math hammer so take that into consideration.

In the tournament I played in a couple weeks ago, I ran Las primary with HB sponsons. I found the set up pretty underwhelming. While it worked for clearing out dudes, the amount of good vehicles on the board in all the games was pretty high. As a result, my preds got nuked within the first couple turns, making my ability to blow up their vehicles super hard if not impossible. If I had to do it over, I would have used quad las.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
I like Quad Lascannon Predators. The +2 STR is the difference between wounding on a 5 and wounding on a 3.

I've been eternally unimpressed with autocannons, and I still am.

Might be an edge case, but quantum shielding on Necron vehicles make lascannons almost useless and autocannons a more attractive option.

 GangstaMuffin24 wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
I like Quad Lascannon Predators. The +2 STR is the difference between wounding on a 5 and wounding on a 3.

I've been eternally unimpressed with autocannons, and I still am.

Might be an edge case, but quantum shielding on Necron vehicles make lascannons almost useless and autocannons a more attractive option.

I'd say that's an edge case. If you're list tailoring to play Necrons, bring the Autocannon every day, because their vehicles are T6, Sv4+, but ignore high damage shots, so the Autocannon is the ideal weapon.

Otherwise, bring the Lascannons. The whole deal with being S7 is pretty crappy, in my opinion.

Even with more shots, the Autocannon lacks the fire rate to confront light infantry and isn't any more effective for cost against MEQ than a Assault Cannon or Heavy Bolter. Because it's S7, it also wounds tanks on a 4+ or 5+, whereas the Lascannon always gets a 3+, and they get a 4+ save vs. the Autocannon vs. a 6= save vs. the Lascannon, so I think it's pretty straightforward.

Well, the Autocannon has 2d3 shots, at S7 AP-1, D3, right?

And then the Lascannon has 2 shots, at S9 AP-3 Dd6.

Against a T7 3+ vehicle, you get:
Autocannon: 2 damage
Lascannon: 3.11 damage

So yup, against big stuff, the Lascannon is better.

Against smaller but still tough things, like Terminators, though...

Against a T4 2+ infantry with 2 wounds, you get:
Autocannon: About a 60% chance of killing 1
Lascannon: About a 60% chance of killing 1

So the Las and Autocannon are about the same (I think the Lascannon is actually about 2% better, but I rounded) BUT the Autocannon has much better potential-can kill up to 6, whereas the Las will only ever kill 2.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 GangstaMuffin24 wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
I like Quad Lascannon Predators. The +2 STR is the difference between wounding on a 5 and wounding on a 3.

I've been eternally unimpressed with autocannons, and I still am.

Might be an edge case, but quantum shielding on Necron vehicles make lascannons almost useless and autocannons a more attractive option.

I'd say that's an edge case. If you're list tailoring to play Necrons, bring the Autocannon every day, because their vehicles are T6, Sv4+, but ignore high damage shots, so the Autocannon is the ideal weapon.

Otherwise, bring the Lascannons. The whole deal with being S7 is pretty crappy, in my opinion.

Even with more shots, the Autocannon lacks the fire rate to confront light infantry and isn't any more effective for cost against MEQ than a Assault Cannon or Heavy Bolter. Because it's S7, it also wounds tanks on a 4+ or 5+, whereas the Lascannon always gets a 3+, and they get a 4+ save vs. the Autocannon vs. a 6= save vs. the Lascannon, so I think it's pretty straightforward.

Its funny that Autocannons used to be the go to weapon for guard and now its like "hey, lets take lascannons!" because of the price. why take an autocannon at 15 when I can take a lascannon at 20? I think that its not that autocannons themselves are bad, being good all rounders in general, they are simply outshone by better options for a small price increase, much like how melta has been overtaken by plasma, its not any better or worse, but when the price point is 7 vs 9 for a similar damage output at longer range, why not take it? My hope is that autocannon type weapons that fulfill a halfway spot will get a little decrease in points to cement its spot (like 12 points?)

 generalchaos34 wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 GangstaMuffin24 wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
I like Quad Lascannon Predators. The +2 STR is the difference between wounding on a 5 and wounding on a 3.

I've been eternally unimpressed with autocannons, and I still am.

Might be an edge case, but quantum shielding on Necron vehicles make lascannons almost useless and autocannons a more attractive option.

I'd say that's an edge case. If you're list tailoring to play Necrons, bring the Autocannon every day, because their vehicles are T6, Sv4+, but ignore high damage shots, so the Autocannon is the ideal weapon.

Otherwise, bring the Lascannons. The whole deal with being S7 is pretty crappy, in my opinion.

Even with more shots, the Autocannon lacks the fire rate to confront light infantry and isn't any more effective for cost against MEQ than a Assault Cannon or Heavy Bolter. Because it's S7, it also wounds tanks on a 4+ or 5+, whereas the Lascannon always gets a 3+, and they get a 4+ save vs. the Autocannon vs. a 6= save vs. the Lascannon, so I think it's pretty straightforward.

Its funny that Autocannons used to be the go to weapon for guard and now its like "hey, lets take lascannons!" because of the price. why take an autocannon at 15 when I can take a lascannon at 20? I think that its not that autocannons themselves are bad, being good all rounders in general, they are simply outshone by better options for a small price increase, much like how melta has been overtaken by plasma, its not any better or worse, but when the price point is 7 vs 9 for a similar damage output at longer range, why not take it? My hope is that autocannon type weapons that fulfill a halfway spot will get a little decrease in points to cement its spot (like 12 points?)

I never liked Autocannons before, actually. I found them s*** at everything and good at nothing, and to this day am still lost as to why people loved them.

In earlier editions I can attribute many games won to Lascannons, but never wished I had an Autocannon.

The AP is too low to damage MC's, the RoF is too low to threaten infantry, and the STR is too low to threaten vehicles.

I inherited a Predator with Twin Las and Heavy Bolter Sponsons, and I was considering knocking off the H-Bs in favor of Las until the H-Bs on the mobile Predator platform helped me drive some cultists off an objective in a clutch move towards the end of a game. Now I think it's all pretty viable, and since I have plenty of Lascannons elsewhere in my army, I feel less pressure to fully kit our the Predator with them.

Depends in what other models you have.

If you already have a lot of LasCannons and you care about wysiwyg, you might consider heavy bolters.

Another thought: Consider you have a Helbrute and a Predator and you want a 2 LasCannons and 2 Heavy Bolters.
You either give the Helbrute the HB and the Predator sponson LCs, then the predator is 200 points and the Helbrute ~130, or you give the Helbrute a twin LC and the predator sponson HBs, then the predator is 170 and the helbrute ~160, which I think is better.

Third thought: Get some magnets.

I'm currently running two Auto/las Preds, and they perform great. The flexibility of the autocannons lets me chew up heavy infantry or have a shot at dinging walkers and light vehicles. The lascannons so far have been the weaker part of the loadout, typically due to my atrocious rolling, but they should punch a hole in whatever needs new holes in it.

Razorbacks are far more efficient anti-infantry platforms, whereas quad-las Predators are a legitimate consideration vs. a pair of Lascannon Razorbacks.

That's why you should pass on the Heavy Bolters. If you were going to equip your Predator for anti-infantry, instead buy a Twin Assault Cannon or Twin Heavy Flamer Razorback.



I can see, in edge cases, circumstances where I might want the Autocannon, but I really don't see a use for Heavy Bolter Sponsons on the thing.

Easy enough to see the math

AC has 3 dmg.

valdier wrote:
Easy enough to see the math

is this for a single shot? I can see that the AC would be very effective at those numbers in the sub T8 category if you put in the 2D3 shots value.

 generalchaos34 wrote:

valdier wrote:
Easy enough to see the math

is this for a single shot? I can see that the AC would be very effective at those numbers in the sub T8 category if you put in the 2D3 shots value.

Yeah, Predator AC hits for 3 DMG. It's pretty solid.

Autolas and quadlas are both viable, just don't bother with the HB sponsons. TAC Razorbacks are much more cost-effective for horde control and can ferry your troops about too.

 Xenomancers wrote:
I like auto cannon/ 2x las cannon. Things with high invo saves are better targets for the auto cannon and that reliable 3 damage is really nice. Also if you get lucky you can get 6 shots. Both are nice options really - I don't think you can go wrong with ether TBH.

Yeah, the AC/Las sponsons seems to be the best build this edition. It's a very useful configuration.

I prefer the Quad-las pred just because my OCD demands that if I bring lascannon sponsons the turret has to have them too. Feels weird when I have the option to make it a a single scoop vanilla then choose to toss a mix-in.

 Xenomancers wrote:
I like auto cannon/ 2x las cannon. Things with high invo saves are better targets for the auto cannon and that reliable 3 damage is really nice. Also if you get lucky you can get 6 shots. Both are nice options really - I don't think you can go wrong with ether TBH.

This is the best load out IMO.

Well, depends what's required in your army:

Quad lascannon is anti-heavy-tank,
AC/dual lascannon is anti-tank and anti-heavy-infantry, and
AC/dual heavy bolter is anti-light-tank and infantry.

The latter role could also be filled out by Razorbacks with twin assault cannons.

Thanks all, I'm going with auto/las, I like the larger number of shots from the AC, and now that split fire is for everyone it doesn't feel like a loss of potential slapping the lascannons on the sponsons!

Holding out hope that I'll get a falchion at some point for anti big stuff duty

Las is a rape fest for killing tanks, and a single las pred can easily cripple a Leman Russ or another predator in a single volley.
I have not encountered the dakka one yet, but I will let you know when I do. As it stands it does look powerful.

Magnets. That way you have all options.