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I keep hearing contradictory statements taken as fact (imagine that). For a release like the AM codex, how much 8th ed feedback was taken into account? On one side you hear people saying "Conscripts were cut down due to tournament results", and on the other you hear claims that the codex was finalized too early for 8th edition feedback to matter, and that Chapter Approved will make the necessary adjustments. It can't really be both. Does anyone have anything solid on how GW edits releases?

I have no idea what the current situation is like but I remember that in 5th edition the Grey Knights codex was leaked early and showed slightly different stats for the Dreadknight. It was about a month earlier than the actual codex release, which ended up toning back the Dreadknight's stats.

However it's unknown if the leaked version was created earlier than that (although if it was, it wasn't much earlier) nor if it's known that other revisions occured between it and the final release version. However I guess they have at least a month before everything goes to print.

I think it's probably somewhere in the realm of 2-3 months to get something through print at a minimum..

In principle this could be pretty fast. Presumably the printer can be told everything except exactly what will appear on every page well in advance -- GW should be able to schedule the printing ahead of time, they know they know how many pages the finished product will be, that it's hardcover with some dimensions and some kind of binding, etc.

Probably you save money printing in China or wherever and then using slow shipping and distribution. I wouldn't be surprised if that's most of the necessary time between the final edit and sending out review copies. So we're probably looking at one or two months minimum, for shipping and distribution. I think if the codex had been finalized in early August that would be a surprisingly fast release.

Far enough that the Index FAQ to fix the typo for the Onager Dunecrawler didn't make it into the codex. The typo was still there.

 Purifier wrote:
Far enough that the Index FAQ to fix the typo for the Onager Dunecrawler didn't make it into the codex. The typo was still there.

So minimum 3 months assuming that the process takes the same amount of time each time. That means all the codex released this year up to this point had 0 actual players base feedback for their rules. Which makes sense because the AM codex got better when everyone could see from actual game-play (and really just reading the entries) that it needed nerfs. Assuming 3 months process to get something through the process of editing and print - maybe we might start seeing some feedback make it into codex. If the process is longer and I think it is. I would be correct in assuming that all the codex set to release this year were already in production at the time of the release of the index.

Probably much longer than we think. The books are printed in China. Assuming the printer did the job on time and didn't bump books for a bigger order, even GW's biggest order wouldn't necessarily make them a priority. Add Shipping time; which would be at least a month not counting on any delays due to customs. Anything less than 6 months is unrealistic. Probably closer to 9 months. Better to have the books sitting in a warehouse early than miss your launch date.

I can believe the core rules are produced a fair amount in advance.

I do not believe however that GW have a crack testing team, got hold of the indexes in say 2016, twigged Conscripts and plasma were a bit good back by say January (so, still 5~ months before 8th went live) and then they tweaked the IG codex so the change would come through in October.

We have seen that GW have not been afraid to launch pretty immediate FAQ changes if they are worried about balance issues which have clearly only come to light in post-launch tournaments.

I therefore think it stretches belief to say the IG codex was not effected by debates around conscripts and plasma scions. Therefore I don't think the delay can be much more than 3 months. Its probably a bit risky but I reckon you could push things down to 6-8 weeks assuming you have the printers on call.

 Xenomancers wrote:
I think it's probably somewhere in the realm of 2-3 months to get something through print at a minimum..

May have been true 15 years ago.

We know for a fact the stand-alone SWA rulebook went from "not planned" to "on store shelves" in what, 6 weeks? Sure, everything was already typed up, they still had to lay out all the content in a combined book, print it and ship it. That makes tweaking units a month before release completely possible.

There is not really a rush for GW short of poor planing, So I would expect upwards of 4 months.

But it could be done within a month if they where Completely insane.
we really do not have the needed info, they could be working on projects years ahead, so they have 5 things ready to go to print at any given time.
So then they could be editing and putting it out 3 months later.

They've said multiple times that the Studio is working on stuff 2-3 years ahead, so their project planning is about that long in terms of the whole package - what models are being made, roughly when stuff is due to be released, etc.

Of course with that kind of timescale hitting an exact month is unlikely - more probably they have multiple projects at once all aiming for Q2 2020, which then settle into a spread from Q4 2019 to Q4 2020 as they get closer to the time and work out the finer details of exactly which releases slot in where.

In terms of the immediate run-up before a book is released, I'd expect a timescale more along the lines of:

T-90 days: Book is substantially complete, galley proofs are sent to the printer to give them an idea of set-up, layout etc.
T-60 days: Final revisions made, last-minute changes committed, etc. Test copies reviewed before first print run.
T-50 days: Printing begins, stock builds up in China, local logistics organised.
T-45 days: Ship loads and leaves port.
T-8 days: Books arrive in port, go out through local logistics.
T-3 days: Books arrive in store (typically our local gets theirs in on the Wednesday before a Saturday release).

So a 90 day timescale fits, probably up or down by 10 days depending on circumstances. Any more than that and they'd be sat on stock they couldn't sell, any less than that and you run the risk of disaster.

You can see this in the index + early codex releases. Errors picked up from the indexes were not corrected in any codex up to the Death Guard book, but Militarum has the "1 command squad per officer" change which was made in the FAQ and the Baneblade error corrected (the Baneblade didn't ignore moving for Heavy weapons but all other SHVs did). The Conscripts and Scions issues were obvious practically immediately so they had time to do something about them before the book went to print.

Well, it's damned hard to tell.

Many many moons ago, I got sneak peaks at playtest versions of a Marine Codex, and an Orc and Goblin army book.

The Marine one (when assault cannons got good) didn't change at all from memory.

The Orc and Goblin? Gobbos were a point cheaper than in the print version.

Both were fairly well along, complete with page setting, but still missing some artwork (though the gaps were obvious).

I perused both a few weeks before release, so one could argue that the update time is quite short, given at least one had changes I can definitely remember.

But....I've got no way to know when those playtest versions were issued, as they weren't issued to me,

We're also talking as much as 10 years ago, if not slightly longer, so many things could've changed.

 Corrode wrote:

You can see this in the index + early codex releases. Errors picked up from the indexes were not corrected in any codex up to the Death Guard book, but Militarum has the "1 command squad per officer" change which was made in the FAQ and the Baneblade error corrected (the Baneblade didn't ignore moving for Heavy weapons but all other SHVs did). The Conscripts and Scions issues were obvious practically immediately so they had time to do something about them before the book went to print.

Yeah, I think this is pretty telling. If the only great evidence the other way is stuff like "they didn't fix the Onager's damage table", surely we can explain that as them not giving a gak about the AdMech codex.

xmbk wrote:
I keep hearing contradictory statements taken as fact (imagine that). For a release like the AM codex, how much 8th ed feedback was taken into account? On one side you hear people saying "Conscripts were cut down due to tournament results", and on the other you hear claims that the codex was finalized too early for 8th edition feedback to matter, and that Chapter Approved will make the necessary adjustments. It can't really be both. Does anyone have anything solid on how GW edits releases?

Why nothing is too obviously contradictory or so completely ridiculous as to not be taken as fact by THE INTERNET and its superhero...Hyperbole Man. Along with his sidekick, Baseless Assumption Boy, he protects ignorance, verbal abuse, and the American Way!!

 lord_blackfang wrote:

We know for a fact the stand-alone SWA rulebook went from "not planned" to "on store shelves" in what, 6 weeks? Sure, everything was already typed up, they still had to lay out all the content in a combined book, print it and ship it. That makes tweaking units a month before release completely possible.

You're assuming that the separate release required a new print run. Given print run scales, where it can potentially wind up cheaper to produce more copies than you actually want, it's entirely likely that the books released separately were already sitting in a warehouse somewhere.

 insaniak wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

We know for a fact the stand-alone SWA rulebook went from "not planned" to "on store shelves" in what, 6 weeks? Sure, everything was already typed up, they still had to lay out all the content in a combined book, print it and ship it. That makes tweaking units a month before release completely possible.

You're assuming that the separate release required a new print run. Given print run scales, where it can potentially wind up cheaper to produce more copies than you actually want, it's entirely likely that the books released separately were already sitting in a warehouse somewhere.

Those books had new content and lists compared with the books in the Boxed SW:A set. So no, they where different print batches. (Or GW just printed them ahead of time, and lied about don't wanting to sell it separted)

EDIT: Misspeling.

Ah yes, I had forgotten that they added the lists in.

I was shocked not more people were angry when the codex came out a few weeks later. Thry made it seem like the first ones were months away... really felt like gw just scammed a bunch of people. But as usual, 40k players just took it while praising gw...

 lolman1c wrote:
I was shocked not more people were angry when the codex came out a few weeks later. Thry made it seem like the first ones were months away... really felt like gw just scammed a bunch of people. But as usual, 40k players just took it while praising gw...

As a general rule people are unlikely to get mad at a company for releasing stuff earlier than they expected.

The thing I don't understand is; if you feel ripped off, or deceived, or even GW is truly evil. Why do you still play? I can't imagine spending your time and money on something that hurts you is a good idea.