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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Myrtle Creek, OR

A buddy and I played up to about 15th level in Frostgrave on our first quasi-campaign.
I played an elementalist and he had a summoner.

The game was pretty decent fun but we ran into (and also read online) some issues.
Things we noticed (and also read):
-Elementalists can get silly due to their offensive spells. We played with lots of cover and his go-to spell became fog.
-Wizards become comparatively good close combat machines and it's easy to start playing them that way.
-Scenarios, many times, essentially became ignore-each-other contests as each player tried to make off with 1/2 the treasures.

For anyone who's played, what did you think?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/04 06:00:01


 
   
Made in us
Courageous Questing Knight





drinking tea in the snow

I've definitely had that issue with scenarios. I've wondered if toning down the amount of experience gained for escaping with loot might help

realism is a lie
 
   
Made in gb
Highlord of Terra






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

Frostgrave has a lot of issues.

Combat is a matter of luck over skill, there is too little distinction between a basic combatant like a thug and an elite combatant like a knight. Roll higher you smash them, roll a 20 and you get an autokill if critical hit rules are used.

n'oublie jamais

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
 
   
Made in us
Napoleonics Obsesser




MN

You can see my thoughts here: https://bloodandspectacles.blogspot.com/2016/12/review-frostgrave-osprey-games.html

and my thoughts on the supplements here:
https://bloodandspectacles.blogspot.com/2017/04/review-frostgrave-supplements-osprey.html

However, my general thought is that it is a campaign system with a game added to support it later.

That doesn't mean I do not like it. I enjoy it with some caveats.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/11 16:54:00


Do you like Free Wargames?
http://bloodandspectacles.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Sorcerer of Chaos




I play frostgrave for what it is to me... a campaign system. Its definitely not a deep strategic game nor do I think was it intended to be.

It could use some definite balance tweaks regardless though. Like the elementalist needs toned down a bit. I notice people taking the same type of casters because they are just that much better.
   
Made in us
Death-Dealing Dark Angels Devastator



Southeastern U.S.A.

I am believe that Frostgrave Ghost Archipelago will eliminate a few things that I did not like about the original. Which was the balance issues between wizards, certain spells, and the apprentice just being an inferior version of your wizard. GA changes to Heritors that each have 5 powers that can be chosen or rolled for randomly. Then each Heritor can have a Warden. There are 5 types of Wardens with each getting 3 spells from their type and then one from another type. They earn XP separately from your Heritor. The warband is also always guaranteed to have 8 crew members to join the Heritor for every game which can be equipped one of 4 or 5 ways. Four of these can then be replaced by specialists that you have to purchase. Replacing a killed specialist requires a costly trip back to the mainland to recruit a new one. It sounds more balanced as far as abilities go. You still will have the randomness that is a D20, but oh well.
   
Made in jp
Utilizing Careful Highlighting





Japan

I like the gameplay just fine, but the experience system needs a revamp. As it is, wizards get too much of their XP from sniping enemy soldiers and not enough from spellcasting and/or exploration.


My latest entry in A Tale of Several Gamers. Check our progress!
Now showing Japanese peasants from Perry!

Painting total as of 6/15/2018: 99 plus three sets of Osgiliath ruins and Great Cthulhu and a Japanese peasant farmhouse.
Painting total for 2017: 267 plus two SF buildings and two specimen tanks and two Treemen and two chariots and lots of Frostgrave ruins and an evil tree, six mythos monsters, two GF9 swamps and thirteen pieces of scatter terrain.

 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Reanimator






RVA

A buddy of mine characterized FG as "competitive shopping" and that kind of ruined the mystique for me.

   
Made in us
[DCM]
Chaplain with Hate to Spare





SoCal

Huh. I've won the games I've played by focusing solely on murdering the competition. It seemed to me like the game's big flaw was that any band optimized for anything but killing would inevitably fall under the knives of the killers.

   
Made in us
PanOceaniac Hacking Specialist Sergeant






The game's pretty bad, to be honest.

The way D20 threshholds work mean that it's very dice based. Simply rolling a 19 or 20 utterly kills an enemy regardless of how well they are taking cover, etc... since that roll is also tied to damage. It's silly that cover or defensive windstorms protect you from being nicked by horrible 1-2 point damage plinks from bad rolls, but do literally nothing from a roll of 20 critical.

The spells are by no means balanced, elementalists are too good and generate XP crazy fast.

The minions are horribly balanced, costing 5x more for minute increases in stats in a game about freaking D20s.

The base camp bonuses aren't fun and the items aren't interesting. You're a magical wizard, and we can't have more interesting items that '+1 weapon of magic'?

The campaign is meh because the wizard advances only, and even the apprentice is just a clone of the master but with -2 stats. That's dumb.

All in all, it's the worst of the 'campaign rank-up gang skirmish' games I've played.

 
   
Made in jp
Utilizing Careful Highlighting





Japan

Personally, I rather like how deadly the game can be. It fits all the color text about how dangerous and unpredictable Felstadt (sp?) is supposed to be. The OP elementalist is easy to counter if you use enough blocking terrain. I do agree, though, that the experience system needs a lot of work.


My latest entry in A Tale of Several Gamers. Check our progress!
Now showing Japanese peasants from Perry!

Painting total as of 6/15/2018: 99 plus three sets of Osgiliath ruins and Great Cthulhu and a Japanese peasant farmhouse.
Painting total for 2017: 267 plus two SF buildings and two specimen tanks and two Treemen and two chariots and lots of Frostgrave ruins and an evil tree, six mythos monsters, two GF9 swamps and thirteen pieces of scatter terrain.

 
   
Made in us
Waaagh! Warbiker



Olympia, WA

Yeah the XP system needs some house rules, but on the other hand it's trivial to adjust it to fit the style of your group. I disagree with just about everything else Killionaire said.

If I Had a Rocket Launcher, I'd Make Somebody Pay 
   
Made in us
Death-Dealing Dark Angels Devastator



Southeastern U.S.A.

Frostgrave Ghost Archipelago corrects several issues from the original Frostgrave. It comes out this week. People should give it a look. I know that I plan to use it instead of regular Frostgrave from now on.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 Killionaire wrote:

The minions are horribly balanced, costing 5x more for minute increases in stats in a game about freaking D20s.

The base camp bonuses aren't fun and the items aren't interesting. You're a magical wizard, and we can't have more interesting items that '+1 weapon of magic'?

The campaign is meh because the wizard advances only, and even the apprentice is just a clone of the master but with -2 stats. That's dumb.


I was looking for a campaign skirmish game when this came out, these are why I didn't bother with it after taking a good look at it.

Aside from that, for me having a single uber powerful model and hirelings is far less interesting than a warband of relatively even competence with some stand outs. The lot kept me from even starting with it.
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Reanimator






RVA

Got my copy of FG Ghost Achipelago last night but had no time to get into it.

Lots of sound arguments about why FG is mechanically meh. I think that is actually part of its success. There are a lot of people out there who play minis games for the sheer spectacle of the terrain and the narrative that unfolds. FG is deliberately simple for that reason. Joseph makes the same point explicitly in the intro to Ghost Archipelago, so I am not expecting it to be any more mechanically advanced than FG.

But I guess we will see.

   
Made in us
PanOceaniac Hacking Specialist Sergeant






There's a difference between 'easy mechanics' and 'mechanics that make no sense'. Damage in FG unfortunately falls in the latter.

For example, if my target number is 10 and I roll an 11, and the target's armor is 10, the enemy takes a glancing hit that does effectively nothing, knocking off 1 box of their 10. So basically, zilch.

If I roll a 20, I just did 10 or 20 damage to them, instantly killing them. Okay, that's fine so far.

Let's take cover so that the arrow doesn't hit me. Let's make the target number 13.
Rolling an 11 or 12 misses instead of doing unconsequential damage. That 19 or 20 still kills me.

This really in essence, makes cover largely pointless. Because all you need to do is keep rolling dice with bad, unlikely to hit bow shots, and you'll eventually headshot that wizard even if he's in cover, behind a wind-wall, etc.

It's not even a fun spectacle due to how dry the world is outside of your spell list. I don't know your guy as 'Oh, he found the Cape of Mindspinning so he can do X'. no, your guy is 'Has a +1 sword'. That's boring as all hell, and less narrative than literally every other comparative game around. Not to mention also that half the spells do effectively nothing, or are duplicates.

 
   
Made in jp
Utilizing Careful Highlighting





Japan

 Killionaire wrote:
Let's take cover so that the arrow doesn't hit me. Let's make the target number 13.
Rolling an 11 or 12 misses instead of doing unconsequential damage. That 19 or 20 still kills me.


That 19 or 20 does 9 or 10 points of damage, which may or may not kill you depending on how many points of health you started with and/or have left. Lucky shots are lucky shots, no matter what game you are playing.

There are a lot of different spells with a lot of different effects. Direct Damage spells (to use the old WHFB term) are going to seem similar because they are, at least in game terms, the same. There is no reason you have to rely on those instead of different spells from other schools.

None of this means that you aren't entitled to your own opinion, of course. Not everyone likes the same sort of games. For me, though, a lot of what you dislike about FG I find rather appealing, To each their own, I guess.


My latest entry in A Tale of Several Gamers. Check our progress!
Now showing Japanese peasants from Perry!

Painting total as of 6/15/2018: 99 plus three sets of Osgiliath ruins and Great Cthulhu and a Japanese peasant farmhouse.
Painting total for 2017: 267 plus two SF buildings and two specimen tanks and two Treemen and two chariots and lots of Frostgrave ruins and an evil tree, six mythos monsters, two GF9 swamps and thirteen pieces of scatter terrain.

 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Reanimator






RVA

If cover makes me 10-20% less likely to be shot it hardly seems pointless.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/26 07:21:17


   
Made in us
Enigmatic Sorcerer of Chaos




Some people want cover to mean that they are effectively immune from being killed.
   
Made in us
Waaagh! Warbiker



Olympia, WA

If the wizard is "behind a wall" archers don't have LoS and he is in fact immune to their attacks.

What comparable game is it you're playing with more narrative, Mordheim? Frostgrave is pretty much the biggest player in the fantasy skirmish campaign niche right now.

If I Had a Rocket Launcher, I'd Make Somebody Pay 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Reanimator






RVA

Mordheim definitely has more narrative. But there are other great games that support narrative much, much better than FG: Empire of the Dead, This Is Not A Test, and Strange Aeons to name three non-fantasy genre games.

   
Made in us
Napoleonics Obsesser




MN

Pulp Alley as well.

I enjoy playing Frpstgrave, but find the dice mechanics to be lacking. That said, I still enjoy it for what it is.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/26 22:01:19


Do you like Free Wargames?
http://bloodandspectacles.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I like FG quite a bit, but man... if This is Not a Test, had as consistent a volume of expansion releases, I would never play another miniatures game, in my life. :-p

: 5200pts (3950pts painted)

: 4400pts (3600pts painted)

: 3900pts (2200pts painted)

: 1900pts (700pts painted) 
   
Made in us
Death-Dealing Dark Angels Devastator



Southeastern U.S.A.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
I like FG quite a bit, but man... if This is Not a Test, had as consistent a volume of expansion releases, I would never play another miniatures game, in my life. :-p


I own the rulebook for This is Not a Test, but I have never played it. I keep thinking that it would make an awesome ruleset for say a Walking Dead type of game.
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Reanimator






RVA

Mantics TWD game is really great, btw. Rules for developing your characters came out in the Miles Behind Us expansion.

   
Made in us
Death-Dealing Dark Angels Devastator



Southeastern U.S.A.

 Manchu wrote:
Mantics TWD game is really great, btw. Rules for developing your characters came out in the Miles Behind Us expansion.


I do agree that it is a great game. I demo it in my area. I like the survivor creation and campaign rules, but I think it would be nice to have a little bit of resource management/supply tracking for your band of survivors. It could also use more competitive scenarios. There are currently only two scenarios that I am aware of for competitive play. The one in the main rulebook and the special scenario done for Beasts of War recently.
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Reanimator






RVA

This morning, I read the campaign rules in Miles Behind Us - just on the page, they seem great. But I won't take this thread any further off-topic.

Bottom line, FG campaign content is actually pretty meh.

   
Made in us
PanOceaniac Hacking Specialist Sergeant






 Manchu wrote:
If cover makes me 10-20% less likely to be shot it hardly seems pointless.

That's not how it works. It provides a 10-20 percent better protection against glancing hits that do like 1 or 2 damage. It provides ZERO protection against any more powerful hit because of the problems with tying the base to-hit roll with the damage roll.

 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Reanimator






RVA

I only said "likely to be shot" - nothing about severity of damage if shot. Cover is a +2 or +4 bonus to the TN. What happens above the TN is a separate matter. It sounds like you want damage mitigation in addition to hit mitigation.

   
Made in us
Waaagh! Warbiker



Olympia, WA

So basically the 2 worst things about Frostgrave are it's Fantasy rather than Post Apocalyptic and some people don't like the opposed d20 system. There's nothing to do about the setting, but I personally don't think the d20 system is any worse than the standard GW d6 hit, wound, save system they've used for 30 years.

If I Had a Rocket Launcher, I'd Make Somebody Pay 
   
 
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