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Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Texas

I get WYSIWYG and why its needed, but I feel this is more important for the primary weapons, guns and main melee weapons. Like this guy is carrying a flamer but its really a melta, that I get. Or this guy has a chainsword but its really a power sword.

If I play nids, and want toxin sacs or adrenal glands on my hormigaunts, but they dont have them model, is that gonna be something that is not allowed?

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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




UK

Generally speaking its primary weapons. Most people can't see most upgrades on units and many upgrades don't even have an official part of the model. Bits like extra carapace and toxin sacs or grenades or seals or sights on weapons - these are all formal upgrades but they all "vanish" in terms of seeing them on the tabletop.

At a practical level the way points work with upgrades also makes it highly impractical to force a player to fix them on permanently. Expecting every Tyranid player to have every upgrade variant of gaunts is impractical. Equally so limiting every player to only use what's modelled in terms of upgrades would seriously cut down one what they could take or vary in their armies.


Primary weapons should be modelled; meanwhile you should have at least two clearly printed army lists that clearly detail what unit has what upgrades.
In an ideal world you could consider painting the rim of the base of your models (esp gaunts) in different colours per unit. That way you can easily note on the army list - "red termagaunts have toxin sacs" "Blue termagaunts don't". This also helps during the game as you can easily see which gaunts belong to which group for moving and combat.


Another option is to model all your gaunts without any upgrades then have a selection of "leader" gaunts that have the upgrades modelled. So that gaunt denotes what the whole squad has.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Texas

Thanks Overread. Exactly the answer i was looking for. I like the "invisible upgrade" logic.

Definitely agree about the primary weapons, and thats why all my MC are magnatized.

I like the Idea of a Leader Gaunt. i have a couple extra Warrior heads, maybe I can make a Hormigant prime so to speak with all the upgrades.

Only other issue, is I have 40x genestealers with the extended carapace on the model, but I never play with the rule. I put it on back when i was young and dumb for aesthetic purposes. Wanted a little carapace to paint to tie in the color scheme. I would guess this would be the same, an all or none I would just field them as is, but both units NEVER take the extended carapace.


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DakkaSwap Successful Transactions: cormadepanda, pretre x2, LibertineIX, Lbcwanabe, privateer4hire, Cruentus (swap), Scatwick2 (swap)

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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




UK

Honestly extended carapace on genestealers is one of those "its invisible" upgrades. I can wager most opponents wouldn't tell the difference. All they'd tell is that its a genestealer with rending claws/scything talons. They would likely totally miss the added bits of carapace unless you really painted it to highlight those parts over the rest of the model.

Just like most people won't ever see grenades on imperial guard units.

I'd field them however you wish, one group could be with and another without. The key is that you denote easily which group is which then have a clear army list written out.
   
Made in us
Battle-tested Knight Castellan Pilot




It's going to depend on the TO and how they feel about it. If you're unlucky, it'll depend on how they feel about you.

It will also depend somewhat on the opponents, their expectations and likelihood of complaining. If a TO gets a lot of complaints about bio-whatevers not being present, they may enforce it.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Texas

Cool. The carapace is vibrant for sure, but I field them all the same. Never take the carapace as it slows them down. Just looks cool.

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Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






A Protoss colony world

My play group is fairly relaxed about it, at least with certain models. Chaos cultists, for example: I usually run a lot of them, but they are a mix of autogun, autopistol/CCW, and special weapons. My group is okay with me saying everyone has an autogun. I just don't own 40+ autogun cultists. Generally it's a case by case basis for WYSIWYG around here.

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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Los Angeles

 Dynas wrote:
Only other issue, is I have 40x genestealers with the extended carapace on the model, but I never play with the rule. I put it on back when i was young and dumb for aesthetic purposes. Wanted a little carapace to paint to tie in the color scheme. I would guess this would be the same, an all or none I would just field them as is, but both units NEVER take the extended carapace.

You're in Texas, which likely means your tourneys are ITC? I play in the ITC almost exclusively and see players from all over the USA. And those carapace pieces on the GS won't be a problem, based on 5+ years of tourney experience.

The other posters' advice is good, too, in that it is the main weapon on the model (like SM, CSM, necrons, orks or eldar) that ought to be apparent.

I am going to field a Winged Autarch with a Reaper Launcher. The model has a fusion pistol, so at a tourney, this might be pushing things; then again, GW has not made an autarch model with a Reaper Launcher, so I expect acceptance from the other players. Ask me on Sunday how that went.

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Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




If you go to a tournament, your flamers should be flamers. Your lascannons should not be melta guns.

If you're going to use "invisible" upgrades, you might just want to put them on every instance of a unit in your list (ie. all your Jorm genestealers take extended carapace in your list, all your hormagaunts have toxin sacs, etc.)
   
Made in us
Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh





Norfolk, VA

As your opponent, just give me your list. Ill ask any questions I may have.

Just dont make up wargear options as you play. Thats a problem.

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Made in gb
Most Glorious Grey Seer






I’m not a tournament player at the moment, but I am considering it for this year.

I’m genuinely wondering if it’s worth going full WYSIWYG, even for tiddly, fiddly upgrades, if only to strip one string away from TFG’s bow?

Personally, I’m in agreement with the other commentators. Provided the weapons are right, I’m not especially fussed for Adrenal Glands. But I’m thinking ‘better safe than sorry?’

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Made in fi
Fixture of Dakka





Here basically basic pistols you already have by default are OK to not be shown as are grenades and other such pieces. Iron halo's etc are also not requirement(and tyranid upgrade bits probably are fine as well). So marine with bp&bolter&ccw would need bolter somewhere and ccw but pistol? Nope it doesn't need to be modelled.

100% wysiwyg while nice would be often unfeasible and not efficient. You don't SEE difference between frag and krak grenade from far or generally even if it has grenade! However ccw is easier to note.

Generally I find the wysiwyg here being rather logical and easy to follow. You see what you are up against quickly but you don't have to worry too much about all the fiddliest things.

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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






I depicted the veteran squad in my Elysian Drop Troops army having frag and krak grenades, but only because the kits provide two different individual grenades, and I'm obsessive like that. I certainly wouldn't insist on it to anyone else, while I would complain and tut (because I'm British) if someone wanted to use a model with a meltagun as a model with a plasma gun. That annoys me.
   
Made in gb
Most Glorious Grey Seer






From memory, grenades and esoteric ammo have always been exempt from WYSIWYG, on account they’re easily stashed in pockets and webbing.

Also, units don’t tend to pay for said upgrades, so basic equipment can hardly be said to be a surprise for most.

Though I think I’d still try to model Melta Bombs, given their very specific purpose. And the kits tend to come with them. All about those visual clues for the opponent.

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Made in us
Blood Angel Terminator with Lightning Claws





Huntsville, Texas

I personally don't expect every Marine to have a pistol holster on their waist, there generally isn't enough in the kits and they just don't look great on every pose, but I expect main weapons (eg. Bolter, Plasma Gun, any Power Weapon, special pistol) to be modelled on the miniature in one form or another.

I also don't mind if a character model or Sergeant frequently changes from say a Bolt Pistol to Plasma as long as it isn't displayed in the hand and they have a holstered pistol. I have modelled my Librarian to have his pistol hand be empty since he has a holstered pistol on his waist so I am not stuck with one loadout.

I try for my army to be as close to WYSIWYG as possible because it provides a better play experience for myself, and my opponents as well. They have enough to remember and think about with their models alone, I don't want to add another level of stress to that. However, in casual games I don't mind weapons being proxied to try something before buying it as long as it is discussed ahead of time.

At a tournament though? No, if it isn't WYSIWYG than don't use it, and I expect the store to enforce it. If your going to play at a tournament than bring the right gear and models. Proxies are for practice.
   
 
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