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Made in gb
[DCM]
Boom! Leman Russ Commander






So they've been out for a good while now. How do you guys feel about them?

Me, I've pretty much played with them none stop since they came out yet I've only ever won one game with them. Maybe it's more to do with my appallingly bad luck with the dice, or my opponent's armies (stormcast eternals and chaos knights) but I'm finding them a very tricky army to play with. I definitely haven't cracked them yet.

If I could make some suggestions, I think the main weapons of the frigate and the ironclad could do with a slight range boost. I find them to be too short ranged for artillery type weapons, and I have to fly my ships right into harms way to bring them into range every time. And right now, a gunhauler's skycannon is exactly the same as a frigates's heavy skycannon. So I'd boost the range of the frigate and ironclad's main weapons by 6".

I also think the prices of the formations are ludicrous. The single drop and extra artifact is good but the bonuses are meh. Only the Grand Armada is any good, and who the hell can afford that? Iron Sky Squadron? Seriously, I'd drop it to 60pts. That way you could comfortably fit it into a vanguard sized game.

Oh, and a few other little things. The ship's atheric navigation ability? I think they should have that as standard. The models do have a navigator on board after all. And as for the actual navigator model? Make him a little bit more useful even if it ramps up his price, as right now he's probably the weakest character we have. His storm ability could inflict D3 mortal wounds on fliers in addition to slowing them down. I think that's far. Stormcast throw mortal wounds around like confetti so it's hardly broken. Finally, make Skywardens battleline. Even if it means bumping their price up. It's the only way to make them competitive when compared to Endrinriggers. Plus it would really help us out in smaller games, and from a design point of view I think every army should have at least two battleline units.

Thoughts?


   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Battalions in general seem to cost way too much at the moment.

I wish the ships could carry more. Every list I have as them full with the Arkonauts and Thunderers because I like the idea of infantry in ships but lose so much space to Arkonauts. Although I don't have any experience so maybe I'm missing something about how good Arkonauts are.

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Boom! Leman Russ Commander






pm713 wrote:
Battalions in general seem to cost way too much at the moment.

I wish the ships could carry more. Every list I have as them full with the Arkonauts and Thunderers because I like the idea of infantry in ships but lose so much space to Arkonauts. Although I don't have any experience so maybe I'm missing something about how good Arkonauts are.


Ah, yes, that's another thing. More space. I would love that! Even an extra five spaces would be great. At least then you'd be able to fit a full sized arkanauht company on board an Ironclad.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






I dont like the big flying ships, but I love the actual troops, the battletome was cool too, this is something good for AoS.
   
Made in us
PanOceaniac Hacking Specialist Sergeant





It took me a while to figure it out but I think Kharadron really are supposed to dive deep and fast (being pirates and all). Hence the short ranged weapons. Focus on your opponents weakest point and hammer it all at once to gain objectives. Barak Mhornar seems to especially employ this playstyle, with their ability to run and shoot in the first turn, but their unique command trait which implies a static gunline.

Turn 1, maybe 2 should always be rushing across the board to get into position to use those really short ranged guns, then you unload and build a castle of guns. If your opponents can single out any one of your ships with a few of their units it's dead because of our fragile defenses, so you can't spread yourself out.

I've got a 2k list which looks something like this (not final) that I'm eager to test out, but the escalation league I'm in is still at 1000 :(
The idea is that everything starts in a boat except the 30 man squad and a khemist which hold an objective. Khemist buffs the skyhooks for long range artillery support.
The boats rush as deep as they can (while shooting, thanks to Barak Mhornar!) and dump everything out in the best spot they can. The khemist there buffs the Endrinrigger's drill cannons OR a unit of skypikes, depending on the immediate need.

Leaders
Aether-Khemist (140)
- General
- Command Trait : Opportunistic Privateers
- Artefact : Aethershock Earbuster
Aether-Khemist (140)
Units
30 x Arkanaut Company (360)
- 9 x Light Skyhooks
10 x Arkanaut Company (120)
- 3 x Skypikes
- x Aethermatic Volley Guns
10 x Arkanaut Company (120)
- 3 x Skypikes
9 x Endrinriggers (360)
- 3 x Drill Cannons
War Machines
Arkanaut Ironclad (440)
- Main Gun : Great Sky Cannon
- Great Endrinworks : Incredible Self-healing Hull
Arkanaut Frigate (280)
- Main Gun : Heavy Sky Cannon
Total: 1960 / 2000
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Boom! Leman Russ Commander






@ Rihgu

I'd put the earbuster on the khemist and give the Ironclad the last word. The Endrinriggers can help keep the ship alive whilst TLW will make anything trying to counter charge your ship regret it.

Good point about the weapon ranges too. I would be happy with the current range if the ship's transport capacity was boosted by 5.

Barak Mhornar probably have the best command trait but I think it could be better. Rather than having to designate 1 target, I'd rather it was a more general 40k style blanket of re-roll to hit rolls of 1 (in shooting and melee!)

I would like to work out a system were every named skyport got a command trait and an artifact, like 40k factions. This is in addition to their ability and unique footnote. And I think some of the existing abilities could be reworked. Barak Zon for example is a bit poor. Disembark and charge in the Hero phase? Pass.
   
Made in us
PanOceaniac Hacking Specialist Sergeant





My problem with TLW is that it only applies to one gun, and I'm not sure it's worth it on anything except the Ironclad's repeating gun... which is also it's worst main gun (imho).
Aethershock carbine's don't have that great of hitting power, cannons are too inaccurate. Maybe it'd be good on the torpedoes? I'll have to try it...

I also agree that the Mhornar command trait could be better, but it is pretty good as is. Once you've castled up and have your khemist buffs you can deal quiiite a bit of damage to that one target. Just make sure you pick the right one!

Does the Zon one let you also attack in the hero phase? because disembarking, charging, fighting, then being able to fall back in your movement phase or shoot + fight again seems really strong! I'll be honest, I haven't looked at anything other than Mhornar because the fluff and color scheme instantly drew me to them, haha.
   
Made in us
Plaguelord Titan Princeps of Nurgle






I feel like Kharadron are a very skill-dependent army, which is why there are many people who struggle with them but they also perform decently at (post-mortar/khemist nerf) tournaments. Battalions do cost too much, GW overcorrected across the board because they still don't understand the process for properly pointing a battalion (though in their defense it's tricky to get a handle on, and much different than how units are done). Iron Sky Command is alright for the points, but still a bit too many. Ironclads a little OP for the cost but diminishing returns for running more than one helps. I think it was an experiment in having an army that really did things different from others and GW was broadly very successful in that. There are a few rough edges but the number of things that do work are far greater.

Looking for a balanced Age of Sigmar? Tired of your favorite unit gathering dust because it's bad in Matched Play? Want a discount for not bringing the best possible weapon option? Try Project Points Cost!

PPC points are easily swapped out with those of Matched Play and include all models, unit upgrades, battalions, and terrain warscrolls!

Check it out at: http://ageofwargamers.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Boom! Leman Russ Commander






Rihgu wrote:
My problem with TLW is that it only applies to one gun, and I'm not sure it's worth it on anything except the Ironclad's repeating gun... which is also it's worst main gun (imho).
Aethershock carbine's don't have that great of hitting power, cannons are too inaccurate. Maybe it'd be good on the torpedoes? I'll have to try it...


The torpedoes are indeed the best weapon for it. But never forget the power of the Fire At Will order. Those extra shots have helped me out a lot.

Rihgu wrote:
Does the Zon one let you also attack in the hero phase? because disembarking, charging, fighting, then being able to fall back in your movement phase or shoot + fight again seems really strong! I'll be honest, I haven't looked at anything other than Mhornar because the fluff and color scheme instantly drew me to them, haha.


It does not no. Literally just disembark and attempt to charge in the Hero phase. It's pretty

Poor Barak Zon really needs a boost. Their Article, Honour Is Everything? Why restrict that to just their Heroes? Why can't all their units benefit from it? I don't think it would be OP. It puts it on par with Barak Zilfin's Article, Master The Skies.

Also, I've got a game tonight. 2k. Here's my list:

Admiral w/h Gattlesson's Endless Repeater

Ather-Khemist

3 units of 10 Arkanauhts w/h skypike, volley gun and skyhook.

3 units of 3 Endrinriggers

Ironclad w/h great sky cannon and The Last Word

2 Frigates w/h heavy sky cannons.

I think it's going to be against a Chaos Ruinbringer Warband (lots of knights). And I'm not sure what Skyport to go with. Neither Barak Mhornar nor Barak Urbaz has done me much good.

   
Made in us
Jojo_Monkey_Boy




I have been playing them since they came out, but at a wide variety of ranges. I think I finally have up to 1600 pts together, but still have an Ironclad and several other models to assemble. The battalions for the Kharadron are not very good and I still believe the ships are over-priced. The frigate in particular feels over-priced for what it does, but I haven't played with an ironclad yet so don't know about that one. I think you really have to focus-down units and play to the objectives. Use those long-range sky-hooks from the arknaughts to hunt monsters/heroes to use their +1 hit bonus. Learn how to use an empty frigate to block enemy units or charge them to hold them in-place for a couple turns. While the save is horrendous, those 14 wounds can tie up a unit long enough for you to deal with it or protect something. I'm still learning, but those are some strategies I have found useful.

For my last three games, ranging from 1300-1500 pts, I've been playing with the Barak-Urbaz rules for the double-buff Khemists and the special once/battle extra pile-in/shooting for a unit within 3" of the enemy. In my list below, the riggers hang out on a frigate, with thunderers, and a Khemist. So when they all debark, I buff the riggers rivet guns and saws (or sometimes thunderer rifles and rigger saws, depending on how many thunderers I bring). The other Khemist buffs two units of arknaughts. It has been working well for me so far. Here is a sample list for my 1500 pt game:

Barak-Urbaz and used There is No Trading With Some People as my extra clause (once/battle extra D3 mortal wounds vs a target I wounded).

Admiral with Gattlesson's Endless Repeater and Fleetmaster (to redeploy the frigate if I want) - on foot to help arknaughts

Khemist - on foot to buff arknaughts

Khemist with the Aethershock Earbuster - in frigate

3 x 10 arknaughts, each with 3 light skyhooks - all on foot

10 thunderers, one with fumigator, but rest with aethershot rifles - in frigate

1 frigate with sky cannon and The Last Word

6 endrinriggers - one with grapple

I've been playing versions of this list in our Firestorm campaign and it has been performing well so far. Occasionally I've had to drop the Admiral when using less points, but that allowed me to try out a Knight-Azyros and that was fun. These series of games are the first time I've had two Khemists in the army and I have to say, it has made a world of a difference for me. Finally getting enough longer-range firepower and melee to win my games!
   
Made in us
Hardened Veteran Guardsman





United States

If it helps at all; you absolutely can win with Kharadron Overlords.

I was at a 1500pt GT over the weekend and took 3rd place, going 3-0. First and second just scored a few more points than me overall. I ran with Barak-Mhornar for the rerolls and move shenanigans which helped considerably. I think many have under-appreciated the power of pure rifle Grundstock Thunderers. They were the MVPs and unit assassins of my army all three games. Below is my list:

Barak-Mhornar
Extra Footnote: There's just no trading with some people

Admiral - Warlord
Masterwrought Armour

Aether-Khemist

Navigator

10x Arkanaut Company with 3x Volleyguns
10x Arkanaut Company with 3x Skyhooks
10x Arkanaut Company with 3x Skyhooks

10x Grundstock Thunderers with Rifles

3x Endrinriggers with Chainsaws

Ironclad
The Last Word

In most circumstances I went first or chose to go second to close the gap on assault-heavy armies and try for a double shooting turn. I've come to find with KO, it's good for you to know exactly how your enemy's army works and what their synergy points are. The army is great at sniping and disrupting combinations, which you can use to your advantage.

With the Thunderers and Khemist I was able to take out whatever the biggest threat was first turn in most circumstances. The Endrinriggers were a great disruption unit to jump out quick and mess with the enemy's lines. The volleyguns with Glory Hunters worked great as Character Assassins. Skyhooks grabbed backfield points and threw shots downfield at large targets.

Basement WarGamers (BWG)
 Walnuts wrote:
I'm an adult, I can't even fathom trying to impress a 15 year old. That makes as much sense as getting my cat to think my outfit is 'cool'.
 
   
Made in us
PanOceaniac Hacking Specialist Sergeant





I had considered the pure rifle thunderers before. With khemist buffs they look like they could be absolutely nasty. Good to see them working in practice, too!
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




How do Arkanauts with 3x Volley Guns work? I would have thought they'd do well because of the sheer amount of shots.

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Boom! Leman Russ Commander






I won my game! And with Barak Mhornar too! The Ironclad and the two Frigates survived (albeit damaged), as did the Khemist and 3 Arkanauhts, but everyone else either perished or fled. But only 5 knights (spread out over 3 units) and a severely wounded Demon Prince remained of my opponents army.

@ jearrington

I don't know about the Gunhauler, and an Ironclad is pretty powerful, but the formations and the Frigates are definitely overpriced.
   
Made in us
Hardened Veteran Guardsman





United States

With the 18" for the volleygunners, I use them as character snipers due to the raw amount of shots they have. Hitting on 4's vs characters/monsters is fantastic and absolutely necessary for the unit.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I won my game! And with Barak Mhornar too!


Congratulations!! Well done on the win, good sir. I hope for many more to come.

It can be a very strong army if worked correctly. I've come to find many don't even aim at the Ironclad or other ships in most circumstances. It is killy, but not killy enough to be a major threat.

Basement WarGamers (BWG)
 Walnuts wrote:
I'm an adult, I can't even fathom trying to impress a 15 year old. That makes as much sense as getting my cat to think my outfit is 'cool'.
 
   
Made in us
Plaguelord Titan Princeps of Nurgle






I usually use my Ironclad as part of my front line for that very reason, it's tankier than it is killy (not to mention mines & the last word). But then I run an Endrinmaster on top of riggers so there's a lot of repair ability.

Looking for a balanced Age of Sigmar? Tired of your favorite unit gathering dust because it's bad in Matched Play? Want a discount for not bringing the best possible weapon option? Try Project Points Cost!

PPC points are easily swapped out with those of Matched Play and include all models, unit upgrades, battalions, and terrain warscrolls!

Check it out at: http://ageofwargamers.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 IronMaster wrote:
With the 18" for the volleygunners, I use them as character snipers due to the raw amount of shots they have. Hitting on 4's vs characters/monsters is fantastic and absolutely necessary for the unit.

I hadn't thought of doing that. Now I just need to work out a way of actually getting that many volleyguns.

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Boom! Leman Russ Commander






 IronMaster wrote:
Congratulations!! Well done on the win, good sir. I hope for many more to come.

It can be a very strong army if worked correctly. I've come to find many don't even aim at the Ironclad or other ships in most circumstances. It is killy, but not killy enough to be a major threat.


Thank you!

The mission was ‘treasure hunt’. Very appropriate for my force. 6 blank markers scattered around the board, and for each one you control you roll a D6, and on a 6 you found the treasure. You remove all the other markers, and whoever controls the treasure marker at the end of turn 5 wins the game.

My opponent found the treasure but I managed to take it off him. It literally came down to the wire though, as he managed to bring more units over. Last turn, him with 3 models around it and me with 4. So close.

And you're right, people often overlook the ships. My opponent cast Winds Of Change on my Admiral rather than the Ironclad that was right beside him. I hate that spell.

Also, is it just me or is there really no point in making your own Skyport? The named ones seem to have them all trumped. Unique abilities, unique footnote (on top of a regular one)...you can't compete with that.
   
Made in us
PanOceaniac Hacking Specialist Sergeant





So in a game against Beastclaw Raiders tonight I realized that The Last Word gets to be used against each unit that successfully charges you? So if 3 units complete charges, I get 3 out of phase shooting sequences?
Am I reading/doing that right?

In other news, lost two games against Beastclaw Raiders tonight. They move too fast, have too many wounds, too much rend, and do too much damage for me to deal with :(


Also, is it just me or is there really no point in making your own Skyport? The named ones seem to have them all trumped. Unique abilities, unique footnote (on top of a regular one)...you can't compete with that.

Yea, I'm not really seeing any point. I could see a point if custom skyports got an extra footnote instead of the named ones. But named ones have FAR too much stacked in their favor imho...
   
Made in us
Plaguelord Titan Princeps of Nurgle






I think the choice of extra footnote shouldn't be in the named ones. The whole point is you give up customization for better bonuses, so putting that customizing back in makes them too strong. It's not like Kharadrons would suddenly be sub-par if that weren't there.

Looking for a balanced Age of Sigmar? Tired of your favorite unit gathering dust because it's bad in Matched Play? Want a discount for not bringing the best possible weapon option? Try Project Points Cost!

PPC points are easily swapped out with those of Matched Play and include all models, unit upgrades, battalions, and terrain warscrolls!

Check it out at: http://ageofwargamers.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Boom! Leman Russ Commander






Rihgu wrote:
So in a game against Beastclaw Raiders tonight I realized that The Last Word gets to be used against each unit that successfully charges you? So if 3 units complete charges, I get 3 out of phase shooting sequences?
Am I reading/doing that right?

In other news, lost two games against Beastclaw Raiders tonight. They move too fast, have too many wounds, too much rend, and do too much damage for me to deal with :(



I know your plan. It's the same story with Stormcast Eternals and Chaos Ruinbringer Warbands.

As for the last word, it says "[w]hen an enemy unit finishes a charge within 1/2" of this vessel, you can immediately shoot at that unit with this weapon as if it were your shooting phase." No mention is made of any limits so yes, you'd have 3 out of phase shooting sequences. This is why it's the greatest of the Great Endrinworks.

And yeah, with regards to the named skyports, it would be better if they didn't get another footnote on top of their unique one. Would it be better to make it 'unique footnote or regular footnote, or unique footnote only"? I'm in favor of the latter, because you should be giving up customization for the bonuses. But maybe that's too much? After all, you aren't restricted to their unique command trait or artifact.

Oh, I know! What if the named skyports still got a regular footnote in addition to their unique one, but just like their Artycle and Amendment, it was fixed. For example, Barak Mhornar was limited to These Are Just Guidelines, Barak Zilfin was limited to Without Our Ships, We Are Naught, and Barak Thryng only got There's No Trading With Some People. Not sure what footnote to assign to the other three but could this work?

About the code, I've got suggestions for improvements:

Honour Is Everything: Change to "You can re-roll hit and wound rolls of 1 for your units if their target is a Hero or Monster. So rather than just affecting your heroes, it affects all of your units.

Trust Athermatics, Not Superstition: Big question mark over this but, change to " Your units can attempt to unbind one spell in each enemy hero phase as if they were wizards. If they can already attempt to unbind one spell, they can attempt to unbind two spells instead". So again, rather than just affecting your heroes, it affects all of your units.

Without Our Ships, We Are Naught: Change to "Once per battle, you can automatically heal 1 wound on one of your sky vessels". Since it's a one use only ability, it needs to actually work when you use it. Especially since it's competing with other footnotes like There's No Trading With Some People. Actually, should it just be one wound, or D3 wounds?

With the first two, I'm hoping to make Barak Nar and Barak Zon more competitive when compared to the others. The latter is just because it's so poor at present.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/10 15:56:43


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Kharadrons are actually really strong. They're a natural counter to Tzeencth cheese lists which dominate competitive Sigmar. Well as natural a counter gets against tzeentch cheese lists.
   
 
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